Hypocrisy of The Left - part 2

[Chief]

Let me ask all you guys and I wont argue back. Bolt opened his show tonight with a number of examples of people on the left in our universities and at the ABC who are heavily critical of western society, he than gives examples of how these people romanticise and brush over any grievances in other cultures, why do some many on the left do this ?

Why the hate for the West but than totally ignore any wrong doing by other civilisations ?

I'd have to see those examples. If you could post them that would help us all out.

 

[Chief]

France is gone. Paris is an absolute hole apart from a 2km stretch along the river.

You reckon?

Last time I went there we drove from the airport through the northern suburbs. The only trouble I saw was a white guy beeping at another white guy for walking across the road in front of his car.

Our train into town went through similar suburbs and we never had a problem.

Your ridiculous hyperbole is just empty noise.

 

[Chief]

Christianity is based on the teachings of a peace maker who came to serve the most vulnerable in society, the same can not be said for other religions.

Christianity can never be bad , however the same can not be said for other religions which in some case worship warlords or in the case of the left progressive religion a nut job by the name of Karl Marx.

Christianity is actually growing world wide mostly in Asia an we need it to grow again in Australia.

Again Christianity is unique because its central figure is like no other, a man who came to serve and meet the needs of the most vulnerable in society and preached forgiveness and mercy.

Stop romanticizing and brushing over the negative aspects of Christian history and culture.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Well we will have to simply disagree - where as there continue to be many US citizens who are energetic and very smart - that will all be for nought.
Life every empire it rises and falls and they are now past their peak.
Trumps slogan was not keep America great - it was make america great again!. And Again is not happening.
Last month the average life expectancy of a Chinese child born today exceeded that of a US child born today.
Half the worlds' post graduates are Chinese, half the world's Super Computers are in China. Half the worlds super fast trains. the Chinese now build a city before the US can repair a bridge.

This is what happens when Crony capitalism and corruption takes root - A small number become unbelievably wealthy whilst the country goes to rack and ruin.
You can throw whatever appellations with capitalism / communism / socialism they are all academic labels. Justice and Corruption are far more real indicators of a countries prosperity. Rich nations are more just and less corrupt. The US has slipped down a road it is historically impossible to recover from absent mass bloodshed.

That nationalism you glorify is not a virtue its a curse - not that there is anything wrong with being patriotic - it just needs to not be based on BS. Being patriotic about your education standards, your healthcare, your social security, your justice system these are to be lauded. Being proud of your countries infrastructure, transport system all great.

Being patriotic because you can blow up countries, kill enemies you yourself invented, exploit poorer nations and all the while lie about human rights and freedom - is embarrassing and degenerative.
This is what the USA has become. Best of luck righting that ship.

You fall into that category of people who are demonise western civilisation and than romanticise over other cultures .

China is a socialist dictatorship with no forms of democracy, higher levels of poverty than the USA, massive inequality, has shocking humans rights record and from what I have read a lower life expectancy.

Chinas president basically just appointed himself to be president for life without even having an election .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

because they are not particularity relevant to problems and issues in Australia Today.

The Impact of White Settlement and policies towards the indigenous population are overwhelmingly dominate any reasonable examination of issues to do with the indigenous population. Whatever pros and cons of indigenous culture before white settlement it was basically broken pretty badly by white settlement and subsequent events. Anything your consuming in the popular media should rightly focus of that impact, It's the overwhelmingly and dominate factor in the state of indigenous culture and the problems./issues with indigenous population today,

Colonisation that occurred over 200 years ago has very little impact on what's going on today, in fact aspects of aboriginal culture that existed prior to white settlement play a bigger role today with some of the problems they are currently having.

The bottom line is today there is currently a large problem with welfare dependency and substance addiction that is heavily concentrated in indigenous communities. Until this problem is fixed we will never see aboriginal people as a whole thrive and we need to face up to this reality.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Stop romanticizing and brushing over the negative aspects of Christian history and culture.

Like I said think of Christanity as a ship.

Sometimes the crew have been bad
Sometime the passengers have been bad
The ship has always been good

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Drugs-It is conservatives who are mainly opposed to drug decriminalisation. Libertarians like Leyonhelm support it on the right but they are few and far between. The Greens have a policy in support of legalising marijuana right now (I suspect Labor will soon follow suit). The Greens were attacked relentlessly by the LNP, and in particular Greg Hunt, in the media with the silly gateway drug myth trotted out to scare the oldies.

Abortion-The grey area in abortion law is huge. I myself favour a cut off period (not completely liberal abortion laws) but the conservatives here in Qld have outlawed it for everything other than rape or incest (and some even want to outlaw it for that). Before a certain period of gestation, you are essentially talking about a gamete or zygote with no nervous system. It's about the same as arguing for the right to life of sperm after you finish rubbing one out.

SSM-Lol a right wing government that were dragged kicking and screaming to allow SSM. They were the party who bound all members to vote no and were the last party to allow their members a free vote and only did so after billing the taxpayers $100 million for the privilege of LNP MPs being allowed to represent their constituents. Right wing conservatives were the ones overwhelmingly more likely to be opposed to SSM and gay rights in general.

Right to die-The conservative opposition is mainly religious in its origins. The Scandinavian countries who have legalised it have not seen abuse of the laws as a problem since adoption as you suggest. It is the religious right wingers feeling they need to impose their ideology on others who are preventing uniform laws being implemented nation wide.

Religion-Some right wingers do. But the majority of those opposed to separation of church and state are religious right wingers.

Drugs- the approach the greens takes to drugs is as far from a libertarian one as possible. Firstly they want to take a soft approach on any crimes that are inevitably caused by people taking drugs which means other peoples freedom is violated. Secondly they want the tax payer to spend large amounts of money to take care of any health problems caused by people taking drugs. Thirdly they want the tax payer to pay large amounts of money so people who take drugs can stay home all day and not work.

Abortion- Sperm does not need to aborted, I don't pretend to be an expert in this field but I think we should take the most conservative view possible when it comes to when a baby is alive.

SSM- Did labour try and introduce SSM when they were in power ? no and most electorates that voted no were labour electorates .

Right to die- look attempting to keep laws in place that will prevent people from in some way killing other people is not an example of government going too far. That is the key the conservatives don't want others to impact on another persons right to life. I keep coming back to the point that today people are given large amounts of pain killers with the intention of alleviating pain which as a consequence causes death.

 

[pugsville]

Colonisation that occurred over 200 years ago has very little impact on what's going on today, in fact aspects of aboriginal culture that existed prior to white settlement play a bigger role today with some of the problems they are currently having.

The bottom line is today there is currently a large problem with welfare dependency and substance addiction that is heavily concentrated in indigenous communities. Until this problem is fixed we will never see aboriginal people as a whole thrive and we need to face up to this reality.

Just completely and utterly wrong. the impact of colonization did not magically stop when Phillip stepped ashore it was the started. To say white settlement and the impact of that of aboriginal culture and society was 200 years ago is a complete mis understanding and mis representation of the facts.

entrenched poverty and discrimination for generations the delegation to sub human status and compete destruction of their societry does not magically go away.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Just completely and utterly wrong. the impact of colonization did not magically stop when Phillip stepped ashore it was the started. To say white settlement and the impact of that of aboriginal culture and society was 200 years ago is a complete mis understanding and mis representation of the facts.

entrenched poverty and discrimination for generations the delegation to sub human status and compete destruction of their societry does not magically go away.

Do aboriginals want to give up all the benefits that come with living in a western society such as a reliable food supply, central heating/cooling, cars, computers, television, mobile phones, microwaves etc and go back to living in wooden huts were they hunted food ?

Can you also tell me how colonisation forces a large number aboriginals today to not work and develop substance addictions ?

The simple solution to the problems aboriginals face is to go to school/work and don't abuse drugs and alcohol. It really is that simple and colonisation has nothing to do with this at all.

 

[yebiga]

You fall into that category of people who are demonise western civilisation and than romanticise over other cultures .

China is a socialist dictatorship with no forms of democracy, higher levels of poverty than the USA, massive inequality, has shocking humans rights record and from what I have read a lower life expectancy.

Chinas president basically just appointed himself to be president for life without even having an election .

On the contrary, you will find the history of my posting lauding western culture but griping at how we have abandoned the the very values which have elevated Europeans to the heights. I have repeatedly maintained the the best of western tradition is Greek/Roman Pagan and regroups after the disaster of christianity with the Renaissance and the Enlightenment which underpins the best of our culture and its achievements.

I am so proud and certain of this heritage, I don't need to lie and expunge our excesses during the last 200-300 years. Those excesses have not advanced us or the world and in the process have corrupted us where all the gains we made are at risk. Speak to Asians or Africans or Middle East people from anywhere and what they love about the west is those enlightenment values and institutions.

I do not romanticise other cultures at all. I do respect other people and that it is not in the best of our traditions to force through violence others to accept our culture and particular its darker side. On papers and in the media we retain the semblance of our values but in practice we increasingly do not.

I concur with much of your criticism of our progressive friends but I find your position as merely an insane mirror of theirs. You have bought into the most grotesque form of western american nonsense which does not even reflect the reality in america. The USA has never ever been the free enterprise system it purports to be - its public sector is large but wasteful and ineffective. It has all the right laws to prevent Corporate excess - better than anywhere else in the world - but those laws are useless if they are unenforced.

It has the most liberal free speech laws in the world but than it punishes whistle blowers like no one else. In other words - if you are powerless - say what you like. If you are actually effective and challenging the status quo - they will destroy you. It is insane and one need only follow their mass media for a day or two to be convinced the majority of its population must be insane.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

On the contrary, you will find the history of my posting lauding western culture but griping at how we have abandoned the the very values which have elevated Europeans to the heights. I have repeatedly maintained the the best of western tradition is Greek/Roman Pagan and regroups after the disaster of christianity with the Renaissance and the Enlightenment which underpins the best of our culture and its achievements.

I am so proud and certain of this heritage, I don't need to lie and expunge our excesses during the last 200-300 years. Those excesses have not advanced us or the world and in the process have corrupted us where all the gains we made are at risk. Speak to Asians or Africans or Middle East people from anywhere and what they love about the west is those enlightenment values and institutions.

I do not romanticise other cultures at all. I do respect other people and that it is not in the best of our traditions to force through violence others to accept our culture and particular its darker side. On papers and in the media we retain the semblance of our values but in practice we increasingly do not.

I concur with much of your criticism of our progressive friends but I find your position as merely an insane mirror of theirs. You have bought into the most grotesque form of western american nonsense which does not even reflect the reality in america. The USA has never ever been the free enterprise system it purports to be - its public sector is large but wasteful and ineffective. It has all the right laws to prevent Corporate excess - better than anywhere else in the world - but those laws are useless if they are unenforced.

It has the most liberal free speech laws in the world but than it punishes whistle blowers like no one else. In other words - if you are powerless - say what you like. If you are actually effective and challenging the status quo - they will destroy you. It is insane and one need only follow their mass media for a day or two to be convinced the majority of its population must be insane.

You just told me how wonderful China was when its president just appointed himself to be leader for life without an election, the people in china are not free, the country has a shocking human rights record and the GDP per person is much lower than in any western nation.

Western civilisation despite any wrong doing has provided the best quality of life for its people by far. How about you start looking at some other civilisations rather than romanticising over them, the way people like yourself admire indigenous cultures is just stupid. They are primitive cultures who for a number of reasons could not advance beyond being hunters and gatherers who struggled to invent anything other than basic wooden objects. They needed western help to advance.

 

[Bradesmaen]

You fall into that category of people who are demonise western civilisation and than romanticise over other cultures .

China is a socialist dictatorship with no forms of democracy, higher levels of poverty than the USA, massive inequality, has shocking humans rights record and from what I have read a lower life expectancy.

Chinas president basically just appointed himself to be president for life without even having an election .

Complains about chinas massive inequality... not long after starting a thread about why people want equality. Need to really create a thread called Hypocrisy of geelong_crazy26

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Complains about chinas massive inequality... not long after starting a thread about why people want equality. Need to really create a thread called Hypocrisy of geelong_crazy26

No I was responding to someone who was talking about how the USA was morally bankrupt who than praised China when there leader recently appointed himself to be leader for life without an election.

 

[Bradesmaen]

No I was responding to someone who was talking about how the USA was morally bankrupt who than praised China when there leader recently appointed himself to be leader for life without an election.

But you literally just complained they had massive inequality. The hypocrisy is larger than your grammatical errors.

 

[yebiga]

You just told me how wonderful China was when its president just appointed himself to be leader for life without an election, the people in china are not free, the country has a shocking human rights record and the GDP per person is much lower than in any western nation.

Western civilisation despite any wrong doing has provided the best quality of life for its people by far. How about you start looking at some other civilisations rather than romanticising over them, the way people like yourself admire indigenous cultures is just stupid. They are primitive cultures who for a number of reasons could not advance beyond being hunters and gatherers who struggled to invent anything other than basic wooden objects. They needed western help to advance.

Goodness me! do we really need to point out every mad leader the west has had.
China is advancing whilst we are regressing
Jumping at shadows and deflecting does not advance you indefensible nonsense.
And wold you really believe the veracity of our institutions in recent times about human rights?
Again - I have not romanticised at all - reread my previous posts - I just need to lie and lie and pretend we are all pure as snow.
This type of argumentation is pure deflection. Which the progressives like you clutch to for dear life.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

But you literally just complained they had massive inequality. The hypocrisy is larger than your grammatical errors.

No I complained about his hated for the west which evident by the fact that poster thinks inequality in the USA is bad but in china its good.

 

[Bradesmaen]

No I complained about his hated for the west which evident by the fact that poster thinks inequality in the USA is bad but in china its good.

But why mention it? If you like inequality, surely you'd say how great it is in China. Your hypocrisy and flip flopping knows no bounds. Such a parody account, intelligent as a fly.

 

[GreyWind]

Drugs- the approach the greens takes to drugs is as far from a libertarian one as possible. Firstly they want to take a soft approach on any crimes that are inevitably caused by people taking drugs which means other peoples freedom is violated. Secondly they want the tax payer to spend large amounts of money to take care of any health problems caused by people taking drugs. Thirdly they want the tax payer to pay large amounts of money so people who take drugs can stay home all day and not work.

All of this is wrong. Firstly crimes committed while on drugs won't be treated any less seriously than what they currently are. Secondly by legalising drugs we are able to put that tax money back into society and improve mental health facilities which are massively under funded and under resourced. Thirdly they don't want people to stay at home taking drugs, the same people who do that now will continue to do so no matter what.

By legalising drugs or decriminalising drugs we create less work for the police dealing with minor drug dealers, we can stop criminals from profiting from drugs and by taxing drug sales we can put that money back into society.

Abortion- Sperm does not need to aborted, I don't pretend to be an expert in this field but I think we should take the most conservative view possible when it comes to when a baby is alive.

A foetus isn't able to survive outside the womb under 23 weeks which in Victoria is the cut off limit for abortion without permission and medical reasoning. So can you kill something that isn't able to survive?

SSM- Did labour try and introduce SSM when they were in power ? no and most electorates that voted no were labour electorates .

Labor tried. It was voted down by the Coalition who were all forced to vote no. Labor at least tried to get it through Parliament rather than waste tax payer money like the Liberals did with their SSM postal survey.

Right to die- look attempting to keep laws in place that will prevent people from in some way killing other people is not an example of government going too far. That is the key the conservatives don't want others to impact on another persons right to life. I keep coming back to the point that today people are given large amounts of pain killers with the intention of alleviating pain which as a consequence causes death.

Palliative care doesn't equal euthanasia. There's a marked difference between the two. I also thought you were all for personal choice and freedom? If someone is suffering from a terminal illness and they only have 6 months to live and they don't want to suffer then why shouldn't they have the right to legally end their life?

 

[pugsville]

Do aboriginals want to give up all the benefits that come with living in a western society such as a reliable food supply, central heating/cooling, cars, computers, television, mobile phones, microwaves etc and go back to living in wooden huts were they hunted food ?

Can you also tell me how colonisation forces a large number aboriginals today to not work and develop substance addictions ?

The simple solution to the problems aboriginals face is to go to school/work and don't abuse drugs and alcohol. It really is that simple and colonisation has nothing to do with this at all.

Simplistic slogans. You know watching Bolt lowers your intelligence, you should quit before you lose the ability to function physically as well as intellectually.

Entrenched poverty & heavy disadvantage around the world you find welfare dependence and substance abuse issues., regardless of culture.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Simplistic slogans. You know watching Bolt lowers your intelligence, you should quit before you lose the ability to function physically as well as intellectually.

Entrenched poverty & heavy disadvantage around the world you find welfare dependence and substance abuse issues., regardless of culture.

Yes Yes the old Marxist ideology that those who have more wealth must be oppressing those who have less, this is the fundamental belief of the left.

This ideology always results in the left siding with those who do bad things over those who do good things.

For the most part of humanity if you make good choices your quality of life with will be better compared to someone who makes bad choices.

 

[pugsville]

Yes Yes the old Marxist ideology that those who have more wealth must be oppressing those who have less, this is the fundamental belief of the left.

This ideology always results in the left siding with those who do bad things over those who do good things.

For the most part of humanity if you make good choices your quality of life with will be better compared to someone who makes bad choices.

Wealth and poverty are by and large determined by birth and parental wealth or lack there of.

 

[Malifice]

White Europeans are not and ideology which was what I originally said about socialism being responsible for more deaths than any other ideology or religion in the word.

Nationalism has caused far more deaths than Socialism.

Far more.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

All of this is wrong. Firstly crimes committed while on drugs won't be treated any less seriously than what they currently are. Secondly by legalising drugs we are able to put that tax money back into society and improve mental health facilities which are massively under funded and under resourced. Thirdly they don't want people to stay at home taking drugs, the same people who do that now will continue to do so no matter what.

By legalising drugs or decriminalising drugs we create less work for the police dealing with minor drug dealers, we can stop criminals from profiting from drugs and by taxing drug sales we can put that money back into society.


A foetus isn't able to survive outside the womb under 23 weeks which in Victoria is the cut off limit for abortion without permission and medical reasoning. So can you kill something that isn't able to survive?


Labor tried. It was voted down by the Coalition who were all forced to vote no. Labor at least tried to get it through Parliament rather than waste tax payer money like the Liberals did with their SSM postal survey.


Palliative care doesn't equal euthanasia. There's a marked difference between the two. I also thought you were all for personal choice and freedom? If someone is suffering from a terminal illness and they only have 6 months to live and they don't want to suffer then why shouldn't they have the right to legally end their life?

Drugs- Yes the greens believe in a very soft approach to crime because they view crime as a pretence to poverty. They also believe in large levels of spending on public health and welfare which is paid for by the tax payer. The greens might be happy for people to take certain drugs but than they want other people to have to pay the costs of taking care of these people.

Abortion- A 5 year old cant survive on there own either, my point is simply that you need to have some cut of point at to when something is a human life and at the point of conception is the most conservative and cautious option. People on the right don't care what a woman does with her kidney or her liver, they just want to protect the life inside of her.

SSM- Gillard voted against SSM , nearly every electorate who voted against SSM was a left wing electorate so stop trying re-write history please.

Euthanasia- I don't advocate for no government i advocate for a government that focuses on liberating its people so they can go about living their life's freely. With Euthanasia you need to balance up the fact that yes some people would like to end their life so they don't have to suffer against the fact that it can lead to murder or some people feeling pressured into ending their life. So yes Euthanasia does give people the freedom to end their own life but it also could deny people the freedom to live if that decision is made in some way by someone else.

 

[Malifice]

NAZIS stand for National Socialist German Workers' Party

Yes I know you ******* clown. They were also far right wing. A position universally accepted.

Go to a political rally. See on what side of the rally the Nazis sit.

Socialism is not left wing. Capitalism is not right wing. They're economic models and not political systems. They are often syncretic with poltical ideologies (most left wing politics incorporate socialist economics, and most right wing politics incorporate capitalist economics) but they are not the same thing, and they are not always corellated with their respective poltical position.

For example, I'm a capitalist. Pro Adam Smith, private ownership of capital and the means of production; the works. My view is that communism and socialist economics leads to an invitable political tyranny which (as a liberal) I am staunchly opposed to.

Politically speaking, I am left wing. I support human rights, social justice and so forth.

Politics is the relationship between the State and the individual. Economics is a key component of that relationship, but its not the same thing. I see the best way to achieve human rights, high rates of human development, social justice and so forth is Capitalism (not socialism, which in my view leads to tyrrany).

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Wealth and poverty are by and large determined by birth and parental wealth or lack there of.

That's because of cultural issues.

I don't believe for example that a person skin colour or religion somehow makes them superior to others. What I do believe is that some cultures as a whole have different attitudes to work and education. Its the same deal with people from different economic backgrounds.

The good thing about this is that it can be fixed, if you think about it I am far more optimistic about the prospects of aboriginal Australians and those from low-socio economic backgrounds than you are. I am saying we need a slight cultural change so they can thrive while you seem to be saying they are doomed forever as far as I can tell.