Hypothetical - Who would you pick?

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Liz - your points are taken, but where do you see the team as being and what do you believe our deficiencies to be?

Are we a genuine show at a premiership in the next two or so years or should we be creating more opportunities for some of these younger kids already on our list that you have referred to?

Trading can not only be a way of getting more youth into a team but it can also open up opportunities for those already on our list.

Who on our list, that would be valued by other clubs, could be used for such trades?

 

[Sanecow]

Are we a genuine show at a premiership in the next two or so years

If you compare our current squad to the 2005 one, then I think maybe we are a chance (and like 2005, most opposition supporters and commentators probably disagree) but a lot of things will have to go just right.

 

[FM0226]

Baseb by the posts on this thread I have reached the following assumptions.

# Swans fans believe that we can win a flag in either 2008 or 2009 with our current list

# Swans supporters believe that we have no deficiencies in our team

# One poster is showing signs of being contaminated by bovine spongiform encephalopathy,

# Swans fans believe that Jarred McVeigh is the only player who is expedable but good enough to attract interest from other clubs

# Schneider was incredibly popular

I liked the idea of the thread, but really struggled to determine the 10-12 untouchables in the teams, especially when you have to factor in the 'potential' stars. For example, for Collingwood, would I be able to get Reid, who has plenty of potential but not a regular yet. How about Nathan Brown? If these two are untouchables, then would Goldsack be out of the best 12? With 9 all-Australians last year, can I pick Hawkins or Wojinski
from Geelong?

The only ones I am certain are not in the best 12 are players not playing regular senior footy and without much hype on them and I struggle to find many that are clearly better than what we have now. To make matters more complicated, most of us understand that most other teams don't rate our 'role' (those that are not stars players such as Goodes, CB, O'Keefe, Malceski) players, so it's very hard to think of a realistic swap that would benefit both teams and might actually happen in real life.

Anyhow, I think Adam Campbell (I think that's his name) from Freo that looks okay but not spectacular and I would be willing to give up a small/medium in Fosdike or Jude Bolton for him (so that two extra spots will open for our congested group of young small/mediums we have in the squad). He's aroud 195cm and a proper forward (I have extreme doubts about Playfair's and Ted's ability to play as a forward at AFL level), so he'll give us depth, especially on rainy days where our delivery into the forwards is generally poor. Basically I want a KPP, but really struggle to find a decent KPP that would not be in the best 12 of a side.

 

[little village]

The Hall and Lockett experiment never worked. Especially at the smaller SCG. Hall came into his own once Plugger retired and showed everyone that he would be a great player the club.

LETS GET ONE THING VERY VERY CLEAR

Plugger never got the chance thru injury the idiot of a coach we had.

plugger played in the forward pocket and barry hall full forward.

if plugger sat where micky o sits now and barry hall played where he plays i wouldn't be typing right now.

it was one of the great injustices of my time in footy.

i will never believe the coach was happy with plugger back at the club.

N.E.V.E.R

 

[ssfc0203]

Sean Rusling fromt he Pies to put some pace back in the forwardline. Give up Everitt or, if possible Jolly.

I'd give up Everitt for it, no questions asked, as I believe Jolly does a much better job in general, but Jolly just signed a 5 year deal and Everitt's career looks to end with us as well.

 

[western swan]

YES YES YES
if this were real idd be getting Sndies back so fast...im still not coping

u poor child...my second favourite player was seany d!
i was devastated but it gives me an excuse to see the saints train in perth aswell so i can see sean and adam once more

but to answer the topic i would choose dempster for mattner...adelaide can have him back coz sean is hotter and generally better

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Points also taken from FM0226.

Obviously we would want to trade into the club players with potential, hence probably the thread could have been clarifed better and perhaps the potential criteria left out.

Bigger names than Jarred McVeigh would have been needed to get some of these guys however

Am a little worried about Sanecow's posts though

First he/she suggested that we should get Gehrig and then he/she stated

"If you compare our current squad to the 2005 one, then I think maybe we are a chance (and like 2005, most opposition supporters and commentators probably disagree) but a lot of things will have to go just right."



The difference between 2005 and 2008 is 3 years and IMO 3 years in the career of a footballer is a long time.

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

This was not the case 3 years ago and while it does not mean that these players can't still play good football, win brownlows and or play in premiership teams, the reality is that in the future they are increasingly, more likely to produce less rather than more.

I would love us to win the flag again this year, but I have my doubts whether this is a realistic expectation.

I reckon that Paul Roos and the club have been right to reward this group of players by keeping them largely together for another opportunity to win a flag, whilst also hedging the bets and trying to rejuvinate the list a little and putting on another development coach to help bring on the kids.

I wonder how much in the past that the development of our kids has been hindered by playing in the weaker Canberra league rather than being affiliated with a VFL club, but that is perhaps a topic for another thread.

Should it be obvious at the end of the year that our premiership window has closed, then I would expect their to be a few retirements and also more tough unpopular decisions made on players to be traded.

 

[Sanecow]

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

Leo and Bolton have played out of their skin in their time, so maybe you're right on them and both O'Loughlin and Crouch have looked shaky in the recent past but the others either aren't expected to be particularly flash or easily have the skills to carry them through their remaining years without shaming themselves. But it's not like I think it's a gimme: "a lot of things will have to go just right".

On the Gehrig front, his goal-kicking return is very similar to Hall's for the past handful of years.

 

[bedford]

Points also taken from FM0226.

Obviously we would want to trade into the club players with potential, hence probably the thread could have been clarifed better and perhaps the potential criteria left out.

Bigger names than Jarred McVeigh would have been needed to get some of these guys however

Am a little worried about Sanecow's posts though

First he/she suggested that we should get Gehrig and then he/she stated

"If you compare our current squad to the 2005 one, then I think maybe we are a chance (and like 2005, most opposition supporters and commentators probably disagree) but a lot of things will have to go just right."



The difference between 2005 and 2008 is 3 years and IMO 3 years in the career of a footballer is a long time.

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

This was not the case 3 years ago and while it does not mean that these players can't still play good football, win brownlows and or play in premiership teams, the reality is that in the future they are increasingly, more likely to produce less rather than more.

I would love us to win the flag again this year, but I have my doubts whether this is a realistic expectation.

I reckon that Paul Roos and the club have been right to reward this group of players by keeping them largely together for another opportunity to win a flag, whilst also hedging the bets and trying to rejuvinate the list a little and putting on another development coach to help bring on the kids.

I wonder how much in the past that the development of our kids has been hindered by playing in the weaker Canberra league rather than being affiliated with a VFL club, but that is perhaps a topic for another thread.

Should it be obvious at the end of the year that our premiership window has closed, then I would expect their to be a few retirements and also more tough unpopular decisions made on players to be traded.

B2,goodes,fosdike,o'keefe and kennelly have past their best,sorry your on something.
your'e right about canberra it is a crap comp.A grade ammos would beat that lot.

 

[western swan]

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

i would have to disagree with a couple of the names on that list...particularly ryan and tadhg who might i add are both only 26
i believe we can expect much more from both of them who probably have about 5 or so more good years to give to the club
okeefe...what a hottie !

 

[Big Wheel]

B2,goodes,fosdike,o'keefe and kennelly have past their best,sorry your on something.
your'e right about canberra it is a crap comp.A grade ammos would beat that lot.

Divide the players up through out the league, just like all the other interstate teams.

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Originally Posted by Hopelesslyaddicted


The difference between 2005 and 2008 is 3 years and IMO 3 years in the career of a footballer is a long time.

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

This was not the case 3 years ago and while it does not mean that these players can't still play good football, win brownlows and or play in premiership teams, the reality is that in the future they are increasingly, more likely to produce less rather than more.

I would love us to win the flag again this year, but I have my doubts whether this is a realistic expectation.

I reckon that Paul Roos and the club have been right to reward this group of players by keeping them largely together for another opportunity to win a flag, whilst also hedging the bets and trying to rejuvinate the list a little and putting on another development coach to help bring on the kids.

I wonder how much in the past that the development of our kids has been hindered by playing in the weaker Canberra league rather than being affiliated with a VFL club, but that is perhaps a topic for another thread.

Should it be obvious at the end of the year that our premiership window has closed, then I would expect their to be a few retirements and also more tough unpopular decisions made on players to be traded.[/I]


B2,goodes,fosdike,o'keefe and kennelly have past their best,sorry your on something.
your'e right about canberra it is a crap comp.A grade ammos would beat that lot.



Dear Bedford I hope you are right about Craig Bolton (150 games), Goodes (209 games) , Fosdike (163 games), OKeefe (141 games) and Kennelly (136 games).

These guys have set an incredibly high standard for them selves during their careers up to date and us as supporters have much to thank them for.

Please note however my comment was "the majority of their best football" and not that "they were past their best" and my personal opinion is that not too many of the five players you mentioned will double their game talleys throughout the rest of their careers and also be able to play them at a better standard than what they have up to date.

i.e I reckon Goodsy's only got one more brownlow left in him and not another two.

As much as yourself I would love them and the other 9 players I mentioned, but that you did not jump on me about, all to be able to prove me wrong.

 

[bedford]

Originally Posted by Hopelesslyaddicted


The difference between 2005 and 2008 is 3 years and IMO 3 years in the career of a footballer is a long time.

I reckon that Barry Hall, Nick Davis, Ben Mathews, Peter Everitt, Nic Fosdike, Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Jude Bolton, Jared Crouch, Brett Kirk and possibly Craig Bolton, Tadhg Kennelly, Ryan O'Keefe and Adam Goodes have in a career perspective, played the majority of their best football.

This was not the case 3 years ago and while it does not mean that these players can't still play good football, win brownlows and or play in premiership teams, the reality is that in the future they are increasingly, more likely to produce less rather than more.

I would love us to win the flag again this year, but I have my doubts whether this is a realistic expectation.

I reckon that Paul Roos and the club have been right to reward this group of players by keeping them largely together for another opportunity to win a flag, whilst also hedging the bets and trying to rejuvinate the list a little and putting on another development coach to help bring on the kids.

I wonder how much in the past that the development of our kids has been hindered by playing in the weaker Canberra league rather than being affiliated with a VFL club, but that is perhaps a topic for another thread.

Should it be obvious at the end of the year that our premiership window has closed, then I would expect their to be a few retirements and also more tough unpopular decisions made on players to be traded.[/I]


B2,goodes,fosdike,o'keefe and kennelly have past their best,sorry your on something.
your'e right about canberra it is a crap comp.A grade ammos would beat that lot.



Dear Bedford I hope you are right about Craig Bolton (150 games), Goodes (209 games) , Fosdike (163 games), OKeefe (141 games) and Kennelly (136 games).

These guys have set an incredibly high standard for them selves during their careers up to date and us as supporters have much to thank them for.

Please note however my comment was "the majority of their best football" and not that "they were past their best" and my personal opinion is that not too many of the five players you mentioned will double their game talleys throughout the rest of their careers and also be able to play them at a better standard than what they have up to date.

i.e I reckon Goodsy's only got one more brownlow left in him and not another two.

As much as yourself I would love them and the other 9 players I mentioned, but that you did not jump on me about, all to be able to prove me wrong.

thank you well explained

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Thanks Bedford

Chase me down if we win the flag and I'll glady share a celebratory beer with yourself

 

[HighReeve]

brad millar from melbourne. I was hoping they would chase this guy at trade time. He would fit nicely either back or forward

...For the reserves.

 

[bedford]

...For the reserves.

miller is now on melbournes leadership group.
his father played for the bloods in the 60,s .he came from the riverina and now lives in queensland.

 

[cradle of filth]

Not a bad hypothetical question

Marcus Drum (Freo) - will be a regular player either this year or next.
Richard Hadley (Blues) - was at the Lions
Jacob Surjan (Port)
Xavier Ellis (Hawks)
Bernie Vince (Adel)
Michael Doughty (Adel)
Luke Jericho (Adel)
Andrew Mackie (Geel) - he wouldn't be in Geelong's top 10-12 would he??

Either one for Jarrod McVeigh

since when was Xavier Ellis a fringe player? he's a 19-year-old gun in the making!

 

[bedford]

since when was Xavier Ellis a fringe player? he's a 19-year-old gun in the making!

your mob,after north are the greatest sooks on big footy,go back to your own board and at this stage he is a fringe player

 

[SouthSwans]

# Schneider was incredibly popular

Oh god yes he was.

 

[hammo_cheersquad]

Hopelesslyaddicted,
mate i agree with absolutely everything you have said in the thread
not to say that others havnt arised many great responses

however, i think trading back players such as Dempster and Schneider are out of the question
We traded them for a reason and it is all obviously part of Roosy's ultimate plan for short term and long term goals to achieve over the next possibly 7 to 10 years if Roosy is still at the club but definitely for future coaches

as far as trading players away,
I don't seem to think that many clubs would accept someone like a Hall, O'Loughlin, Everitt (though he is likely to reture at the end of '08) or any other players coming to the extreme tip of their career because I don't think other clubs will get the full potential out these players in their final few playing years, i also find it hard to see the Swans trading away a senior player like that. However, i do see Roos trading players such as Grundy, Brennan, Jack and perhaps other reserves who have played maybe a few home-and-away season matches and are on the cusp of a career but can't get a run in the Swans and trade them for a brilliant young midfiender or forward who knows how to use a ball yet can't get a run in another team

basically, my view is to pick up young guns and trade away whoever seems the best candidate to pass up, given the person we are taking on board, if that makes sense.

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Thanks Hammo Cheersquad for the support.

I agree with you entirely on Schneider and Dempster in that we have to trust the judgement of the great man Paul Roos.

The adage with trading is you don't get something for nothing and the names that I put forward originally were; Nick Davis, Fosdike, Bevan, Moore, McVeigh, Jude Bolton.

These are good players who are young enough to attract interest from other clubs, but should not be sacrificed for nothing.

I don't claim to know the players; in ability or character and how they are travelling, as well as what some of the other posters on this site do and or what the inner sanctom of the coaching staff would, so I would trust these peoples judgement on these players and also the ones capable of taking their places, more than my own.

As for possible players to target.

Jason Roe will be turning 24 this year (possibly too old for a club that might be rebuilding), and whilst only being 192cm ( 1cmm taller than Craig Bolton) he is quick, creative, hard at it, a good kick, versatile, someone who can play above his height and strikes me as a player who would fit in nicely at the Swans.

My son is a Lions supporter and I have taken him to a couple of "meet the players" functions for the Lions.

Difficult to tell in that all players have to present a professional image, but I do believe that Jason appeared to be of a decent character as well.

 

[FM0226]

Thanks Hammo Cheersquad for the support.

I agree with you entirely on Schneider and Dempster in that we have to trust the judgement of the great man Paul Roos.

The adage with trading is you don't get something for nothing and the names that I put forward originally were; Nick Davis, Fosdike, Bevan, Moore, McVeigh, Jude Bolton.

These are good players who are young enough to attract interest from other clubs, but should not be sacrificed for nothing.

I don't claim to know the players; in ability or character and how they are travelling, as well as what some of the other posters on this site do and or what the inner sanctom of the coaching staff would, so I would trust these peoples judgement on these players and also the ones capable of taking their places, more than my own.

As for possible players to target.

Jason Roe will be turning 24 this year (possibly too old for a club that might be rebuilding), and whilst only being 192cm ( 1cmm taller than Craig Bolton) he is quick, creative, hard at it, a good kick, versatile, someone who can play above his height and strikes me as a player who would fit in nicely at the Swans.

My son is a Lions supporter and I have taken him to a couple of "meet the players" functions for the Lions.

Difficult to tell in that all players have to present a professional image, but I do believe that Jason appeared to be of a decent character as well.

Agree pretty much with everything you say here. If I was in charge of recruiting, I would stick with the majority of the squad by eased out a few of the more senior members to smoothen the eventual loss of experience that is inevitable in a few years.

However, for me, the 'salary-cap' forcing us to trade Schneider and Demspter was a bit far-stretched, if salary cap is such an issue, then Fosdike or Bolton (Jude) would have been better trade pieces, especially if we want to look a bit closer to the future. This is the last year that either of these will have any trade value, in my opinion. Both have peaked and to me, unlikely to produce the form they showed in the 2005 season. It's a pain to see Jude struggle on the half-forward flank where his skill is not suited to the role while his body may not be able to cope with full time assignment in the trenches. Fosdike (I'll try not to pick on him too much, as I have in the past), this was the perfect time to trade as his stats looks impressive (though in my view, he was fairly ineffective, especially in the latter part of last year) and with the memory of his best performance ever in the 2005 final still stuck in people's minds. I really it's not too far stretch of the imagination that we might be able to get our second pick back from Adelaide as well as a swap of first rounders. I'm still shocked that Roos didn't at least get to swap our first round picks with St. Kilda.

And I'm a fan of Roe as well. He's a very balanced, calm player that would fit into our backline extremely well in my opinion. Decent in defence and good skills/decision making will fit in very nicely with LRT's athletic ability and size as well as CB's all round excellence. However, he seems very settled in Brisbane and I easily see him as part of the best 12 (I rate him higher than the bigger, more athletic Merrit), so I never considered we would have much chance of getting him - And we could have, if our scouts/recruitment were good enough to draft/PSD him during his time in the wilderness.

It still bemuses me how that incredibly good NT team where the Davey Brothers, Roe and Hentzel played in all went undrafted (I think Hentzel was undrafted, not really sure though).

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Hard to judge how Leigh Mathews ranks his players as he has taken every opportunity to blood as many as he can.

IMO Brisbane, Port Adelaide and Collingwood have set benchmarks for the speed in which they have rejuvinated their lists.

Should it become evident that our window has closed, then a percentage of the players who are unlikely to be able to play at a high level in three to five years time, need to be eased out to allow the blooding of the next crop of youngsters who can form the nucleuos of tomorrows team.

I would suggest that the AFL rather than Canberra would be a better place for them to learn.

Trading is a mechanism that can allow this process and in some instances it can be beneficial to both the player and the club

 

[HighReeve]

However, for me, the 'salary-cap' forcing us to trade Schneider and Demspter was a bit far-stretched, if salary cap is such an issue, then Fosdike or Bolton (Jude) would have been better trade pieces,

Especially since Bolton got a pay increase...

It still bemuses me how that incredibly good NT team where the Davey Brothers, Roe and Hentzel played in all went undrafted (I think Hentzel was undrafted, not really sure though).

*Henstchel.
And he was a pre-season draft pick, I'm fairly sure.

 

[rancidpants13]

brad millar from melbourne. I was hoping they would chase this guy at trade time. He would fit nicely either back or forward

i too wanted us to chase miller
but the first post mentioning marcus drum is on the money
i'd love drum, he will be a freo star within 2 seasons, if not this one coming