Ibbotson and Dunn

[Reveler]

I think one of these players deserve a look in next week.

Both could add something to our midfield.

Probally Dunn is closest, so I think bring him in for Walker. Didn't think he did anything special today, and his man ran off him about and caused us a few headaches.

thoughts?

 

[shibz_1989]

No way. Walker did alright today.

 

[Cameron_K]

You've been reading my posts haven't you

Dunn should be given a go and with he being an emergency tonight the coaching staff obviously think he is close.

I would love to see Ibbo given a run, Hell I would take him over Peake.

Murphy needs some time at south if Pavlich gets off his report.

 

[Reveler]

I thought walker was one of our worst today, his accountability was shocking.

 

[Cameron_K]

The worst today was without a doubt Murphy. Its a shame because he showed so much last year but this year he hasn't been heard from at all

 

[Tundrawolf]

No way. Walker did alright today.

Are you serious? Walker was very average today, and for a guy of his pace was always second to the ball.

Hayden too often turns the ball over or tries to break tackles. Needs to go back to South along with Murphy.

Peake was quiet but deserves his place.

Would certainly like to see Dunn and Ibbo get some game time next week.

Drum must be close too.

 

[Ripper]

I think one of these players deserve a look in next week.

Both could add something to our midfield.

Probally Dunn is closest, so I think bring him in for Walker. Didn't think he did anything special today, and his man ran off him about and caused us a few headaches.

thoughts?

I agree ,

In: Dunn , Campbell , Ibbo
Out: Walker , Bell (inj) , Murphy

 

[docker_johnno]

WALKER - GONE. In a tense last term he allowed rodan to outmark him twice and kick two goals. His kicking is not good enough.

MURPHY - Surplus to our requirements. There is absolutly no point playing 17,28 and 29 inside the forward fifty and no small down there. if we need to play 3 tall forwards at some time during the match then 20 is more than capable. His spot would be better used on a midfield rotation player, dunn, gilmore, drum, cook.

We will definitly see Matt Carr back next week.

In: Carr Dunn

Out: Walker Murphy

 

[dominguez]

I agree ,

In: Dunn , Campbell , Ibbo
Out: Walker , Bell (inj) , Murphy

There will be plenty of pressure on the club next week, so I don't think bringing in 3 guys with half a dozen games between them is a good idea. Happy for one to play, but not all 3. I didn't see the Fremantle derby last weekend, but people seem to be getting awfully excited about Dunn on the back of one good performance in over 3 years (even if he is your buddy).

Would you not pick Matt Carr this week Ripper, or did you not mention him because you consider him a certainty to come back in?

 

[dockers_bengals]

IMO Dunn for duffield
I can't understand why DJ you say walkers kicking isnt good enough but you bring back carr and am I right in saying that you would not like to see cook play again

 

[dominguez]

In terms of foot skills-
McManus
Walker
Cook
Matt Carr.

 

[Shaymuhz]

would love to see cook get a game. teammates seem to walk taller with him in the side

 

[Reveler]

IMO Dunn for duffield
I can't understand why DJ you say walkers kicking isnt good enough but you bring back carr and am I right in saying that you would not like to see cook play again

Duffield looked good today, especially compared to walker.

 

[Memories]

I can't believe that noob up there is saying Hayden should be dropped. Yes he had a few stuffups today, but they were due to lack of SUPPORT. The amount of class he adds to our backline is amazing, and without him we are a worse team.

 

[docker_johnno]

IMO Dunn for duffield
I can't understand why DJ you say walkers kicking isnt good enough but you bring back carr and am I right in saying that you would not like to see cook play again

I have been searching for some stats to back me up here. We can all shoot the breeze and say who we think hits their targets the most.

In my opinion Walker seems to kick it too high and gives the opponents time to come in and spoil the dude trying to mark the ball.

Carr and Mcmanus occasionally shank kicks, however they kick with better shape.

All three of Cook, Carr and McManus bring hardness to their approach you will not see them taking a backward step. Walker hesitates. Not good enough.

In the last quarter Walker was playing on Rodan, he was beaten in 2 contests inside our defensive 50. Rodan took chest marks!

Where is Scott Thornton? he would have been ideal to play on Rodan in the last term.

 

[estibador]

Agreed Memories, I thought Hayden's rebound was good today, but he is one of my fav players so I might be a little biased. I noticed a few others had him in the votes today too. Funny the different perspectives people have of the games.

I'm not a huge fan of Walker but I thought he was ok today, good enough to hold his place, though it was disappointing that Rodan took a few marks on him in the last quarter.

If I was gunna give some new boys a run it'd be Kiwi for Murphy and Ibbo for Peake. Murphs hasn't fired a shot all preseason and I thought Peake was disappointing today, especially in the first half. Ibbo's probably not ready for a spot yet though and Peake always seems to start seasons slowly so I'm prepared to give him time.

If Bell's out it'd be nice to see Dunn given a chance next week, but with Carr ready to come back he may have to wait a bit longer.

 

[pinkus maximus]

In: Cook, Carr

Out: Bell (inj) Crowley(susp)

 

[Slacker]

If Ibbo is as quick as Blackie claims he is, I reckon he will be getting a senior game very soon.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Bloody hell. Its one game in and the "draft pick saviour" game has come out of the closet already. Its appearance is as regular as "shoot the dud forward" but not this early in the season.

The draft pick saviour game is where players who have done absolutely diddly-squat in their careers are suddenly hailed as must select players.

The first thing to say is watch the tape of other teams and count up the mistakes their players make and see how ours compare. You'll be shocked.

Then look at the players you talking about. Dunn has played one outstanding WAFL game and one serviceable pre-season game. Ibbotson played an OK pre-season game but has really only become a regular selection at WAFL league level.

Players like Walker, Cook, Macmanus go back to the WAFL and rip it to shreds. One game Macca got dropped, he went back and got 45 touches. Dessie racked up 25 touches in a half for Subi.

There is a huge gulf to bridge to become a consistent AFL player. Dunn and Ibbotson look great for where they are at. But Duffield is an example of how tough it is to go up to the next level.

 

[Scham]

Bloody hell. Its one game in and the "draft pick saviour" game has come out of the closet already. Its appearance is as regular as "shoot the dud forward" but not this early in the season.

The draft pick saviour game is where players who have done absolutely diddly-squat in their careers are suddenly hailed as must select players.

The first thing to say is watch the tape of other teams and count up the mistakes their players make and see how ours compare. You'll be shocked.

Then look at the players you talking about. Dunn has played one outstanding WAFL game and one serviceable pre-season game. Ibbotson played an OK pre-season game but has really only become a regular selection at WAFL league level.

Players like Walker, Cook, Macmanus go back to the WAFL and rip it to shreds. One game Macca got dropped, he went back and got 45 touches. Dessie racked up 25 touches in a half for Subi.

There is a huge gulf to bridge to become a consistent AFL player. Dunn and Ibbotson look great for where they are at. But Duffield is an example of how tough it is to go up to the next level.

I think Mitch Brown, Leroy Jetta and countless others this week as well as over the years blow your aguement out of the water. Peake wasn't actually ripping it up in the WAFL was he? Pav himself did SFA in the WAFL.
Ibbotson was a second round pick in the draft and he's had a year to develop since then, and looks good. For what its worth, I don't actually think he should be played this week either, but not for the negative reasons you've come up with.
Dunn on the other hand was a top 10 pick and is now 21, and his whole pre season was great. Why not give him a go??
I think your attitude sums up the attitude of our club at the moment where we are very, very reluctant to give the young guys a go. FFS, the Eagles are the reigning premiers and they can fit a guy that's barely 18 (and only played 3 or 4 times as an Eagle) into their 22, and he went well! Seems we're scared or not willing to take a risk to drop or leave out players that are seasoned for that reason only- they have experience.

I'm all for being patient with the young guys but if they deserve a crack give it to them, its the only way you'll see what they're made of, and, the bonus is, it creates competition for spots in the 22 something we keep hearing about thats going to happen at Freo but it just doesn't seem to happen.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I think Mitch Brown, Leroy Jetta and countless others this week as well as over the years blow your aguement out of the water. Peake wasn't actually ripping it up in the WAFL was he? Pav himself did SFA in the WAFL.

Pav didn't do much when he debuted at AFL level either. Nor did JLo. hase came up to the mark pretty quickly though. Peake was ripping it in the WAFL but there were big questions over his disposal and size.

But the main thrust of your argument is that countless other debutants had great games in round 1. Apart from the obvious joke that you can't count very high, its not true. Most debutants had serviceable games but get noticed because they are debutants.

Ibbotson was a second round pick in the draft and he's had a year to develop since then, and looks good. For what its worth, I don't actually think he should be played this week either, but not for the negative reasons you've come up with.

I'll look forward to your "positive" reasons for NOT playing him.

Dunn on the other hand was a top 10 pick and is now 21, and his whole pre season was great. Why not give him a go??

Because he's not actually shown he's better than the 22 who are already there.

I think your attitude sums up the attitude of our club at the moment where we are very, very reluctant to give the young guys a go. FFS, the Eagles are the reigning premiers and they can fit a guy that's barely 18 (and only played 3 or 4 times as an Eagle) into their 22, and he went well! Seems we're scared or not willing to take a risk to drop or leave out players that are seasoned for that reason only- they have experience.

The Eagles didn't fit Brown in. Have a look at their injury list.

And the fact that our club doesn't give young guys a go is a fallacy you've invented to make your argument. Mundy, Murphy, Browne, Campbell, Schammer, Drum, Johnson, Dodd and Crowley are all young guys who have come through in the last two years.

I'm all for being patient with the young guys but if they deserve a crack give it to them, its the only way you'll see what they're made of, and, the bonus is, it creates competition for spots in the 22 something we keep hearing about thats going to happen at Freo but it just doesn't seem to happen.

You're all for being patient except when you're not being patient. Spots in the first 22 on a premiership-mode have to be earned and neither Dunn nor Ibbotson have earned their spots relative to other players yet. Dunn is close because he was named as an emergency last week. But he'll drop down the list when others are fit or come back from suspension.

We're not in development mode anymore. We're in the win every game mode. You don't go mucking around with the team because you want to try out some players.

 

[Scham]

Pav didn't do much when he debuted at AFL level either. Nor did JLo. hase came up to the mark pretty quickly though. Peake was ripping it in the WAFL but there were big questions over his disposal and size.

But the main thrust of your argument is that countless other debutants had great games in round 1. Apart from the obvious joke that you can't count very high, its not true. Most debutants had serviceable games but get noticed because they are debutants.

I'll look forward to your "positive" reasons for NOT playing him.

Because he's not actually shown he's better than the 22 who are already there.

The Eagles didn't fit Brown in. Have a look at their injury list.

And the fact that our club doesn't give young guys a go is a fallacy you've invented to make your argument. Mundy, Murphy, Browne, Campbell, Schammer, Drum, Johnson, Dodd and Crowley are all young guys who have come through in the last two years.


You're all for being patient except when you're not being patient. Spots in the first 22 on a premiership-mode have to be earned and neither Dunn nor Ibbotson have earned their spots relative to other players yet. Dunn is close because he was named as an emergency last week. But he'll drop down the list when others are fit or come back from suspension.

We're not in development mode anymore. We're in the win every game mode. You don't go mucking around with the team because you want to try out some players.

That's your opinion - I disagree. Have you actually seen any of Dunn's pre season games? How can Dunn prove himself at the top level if he's not given the opportunity? His pre season was miles ahead of Parkers, so why not give him a go?
You say that we are in premiership mode not rebuilding. Are the Eagles in premiership mode or are they rebuilding? OK they had a few missing for round one but so did we and they overlooked plenty of more experienced players than Brown. But they've always rewarded good form regardless of who the player is or how old they are since Woosha has been at the club.
Of the players you listed claiming to be young guys given a go Schammer is the only one that really has been given a go as a youth, Mundy spent a year and some in the WAFL, and the club came out after his great debut saying how much of a risk it was giving him a go - please! Clubs with balls do it all the time we've done it in the past ourselves.
Browne, Johnson, Crowley and Dodd were in their 20's when finally given a go. Campbell really hasn't been given a go, played two games last year spending a total of about 30 minutes on the ground and did well but was then dropped. Drum was overlooked on the weekend for more experienced players. But you've really taken me off the point of your initial post with this red herring, those players regardless of age or experience were eventually given a go at the top level, Dunn deserves his now and Ibbo will deserve his very soon. You on the other hand don't think they do, fair enough that's your opinion but IMO you're wrong.

 

[raffrox]

I'm with Ralph Dagg on this one.

It's the same old stuff. Remember a couploe of years ago when Troy Longmuir would have solved all our problems if he got a game?

The Eagles have very few decent key forwards. Name who was an experienced Key Forward who they could have played instead? And no, the eagles aren't rebuilding but they certainly need a decent KPP or two. Thats why Brown got a game.

Dunn and Ibboston wouldn't have won the game for us on the weekend and in the end thats what its all about.

 

[Slacker]

Discussion about changes to the team is a given after a disappointing loss. This was simply a ins and outs thread focused on particular players that the original poster thought would do well, or "add something to the midfield" as was stated in the original post.

It was Ralph who introduced the grandiose phrase "draft pick saviour" to setup a strawman argument IMO.

 

[dominguez]

Ibbo and Dunn have had good preseasons but need to string a month of good wafl footy together before being selected. Unfortunately for the young fellas if they don't play in the next 3 weeks they probably won't get a look in this year with Black, Johnson, Dodd, Thornton and Haddrill available in coming weeks.