Is Geelong's home ground advantage a double edged sword?

[The Warlord]

Geelong get nine games at their home ground - GMBHA Stadium - next season. They play the ground exceptionally well and rarely lose there. Home ground advantages are huge in the AFL, teams that have a ground they play multiple times during the year that other team see once a season at best have a huge leg up.

But Geelong have of late been very poor in the finals. If Geelong win eight of their nine at their home ground next year, they probably only need to find another five wins from the rest of their games to make the finals.

It is clear that GMBHA Stadium's massive advantage helps Geelong keep making finals. But does it actually help them long term? Do they need to bottom out? CAN they bottom out with so many wins all but guaranteed each year?

Does having a home ground advantage that's almost unique in the league actually hinder the Cats as much as help?

 

[Turnover]

Geelong get nine games at their home ground - GMBHA Stadium - next season. They play the ground exceptionally well and rarely lose there. Home ground advantages are huge in the AFL, teams that have a ground they play multiple times during the year that other team see once a season at best have a huge leg up.

But Geelong have of late been very poor in the finals. If Geelong win eight of their nine at their home ground next year, they probably only need to find another five wins from the rest of their games to make the finals.

It is clear that GMBHA Stadium's massive advantage helps Geelong keep making finals. But does it actually help them long term? Do they need to bottom out? CAN they bottom out with so many wins all but guaranteed each year?

Does having a home ground advantage that's almost unique in the league actually hinder the Cats as much as help?

Yeah Geelong should give up home games, so they can bottom out and not make finals.

 

[Scotland]

It is to a point, but the biggest difference between Geelong 2007 to 2011 vs 2012- is that the earlier Geelong team was better and the latter other Victorian teams are better.

Geelong rolled North, Collingwood, St Kilda, WB, Hawthorn in finals during their flag years and since have beaten Port once, Hawthorn who went out in straight sets and Sydney. When they were winning flags they were still flogging sides down at KP, and the one recent season they missed the finals they went 3-5 there, so it's every year is a guaranteed 8 or 9 easy wins.

The only difference between Geelong and a team like mine is the travel factor. Flying 4 hours to play in Melbourne has an effect compared to driving up the highway at your leisure. But my team wins in Melbourne when it is good enough and doesn't when it doesn't. Whenever we suck our fabled home ground stops being talked about.

 

[Lsta062]

Yes they are disadvantaged in finals because of it IMO, but it would be because they don't play there in finals. If they played their home finals in Geelong, then it would not have hindered them in the finals as much as it would now.

I don't know how bottoming out would help this situation though.

 

[Benny78]

The only difference between Geelong and a team like mine is the travel factor. Flying 4 hours to play in Melbourne has an effect compared to driving up the highway at your leisure. But my team wins in Melbourne when it is good enough and doesn't when it doesn't. Whenever we suck our fabled home ground stops being talked about.

There are a couple other minor differences. People need to travel to Perth to play you compared to only an hour up the road for us. And there's 10 clubs down here. Half the teams in the competition can literally jump in the car and train/sus out our ground any time they like. It's nowhere near a home ground advantage compared to interstate sides. But interstate sides compared to us are heavily disadvantaged in finals which is a big issue.

 

[dzussy]

I think every single AFL game should be played on the one ground, in the middle of Australia (Alice Springs).
No East, West, South or North.... all equal.
All players could live there, train there, no travel, no advantages, no disadvantages, no excuses.

Problem solved ffs.

 

[The Warlord]

Does the home ground advantage keep Geelong competitive enough to think it doesn't need a major overhaul, where in fact it does?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Geelong get nine games at their home ground - GMBHA Stadium - next season. They play the ground exceptionally well and rarely lose there. Home ground advantages are huge in the AFL, teams that have a ground they play multiple times during the year that other team see once a season at best have a huge leg up.

But Geelong have of late been very poor in the finals. If Geelong win eight of their nine at their home ground next year, they probably only need to find another five wins from the rest of their games to make the finals.

It is clear that GMBHA Stadium's massive advantage helps Geelong keep making finals. But does it actually help them long term? Do they need to bottom out? CAN they bottom out with so many wins all but guaranteed each year?

Does having a home ground advantage that's almost unique in the league actually hinder the Cats as much as help?

No it’s not what hinders us in finals. We won on the G heaps when the talent was there. Bit of a cop out to blame the HGA now that we aren’t as good.

No we don’t need to bottom out, managed to get to 7 GF’s and close to 20 finals series since the last bottom 4 finish. Bottoming our is a philosophy not shared by the powers that be at the footy club.

 

[Scotland]

There are a couple other minor differences. People need to travel to Perth to play you compared to only an hour up the road for us. And there's 10 clubs down here. Half the teams in the competition can literally jump in the car and train/sus out our ground any time they like. It's nowhere near a home ground advantage compared to interstate sides. But interstate sides compared to us are heavily disadvantaged in finals which is a big issue.

I only raised travel because of the differences in ground dimensions and crowd splits that exist. Perth Stadium is much closer to MCG dimensions than Subiaco was, but teams still don't really want to come here. The other aspect of travel is recovery. If we fly to Melbourne that's an 8 hour return trip which has some impact on our preparation and recovery. If Geelong play in Melbourne then Geelong that impact isn't the same.

Home ground advantage in footy is a funny one. People raved about Richmond at the G and half of their wins in the last year or two came against other MCG tenants where the only real advantage on offer is 70-30 split in the crowd. Since Footy Park bit the dust we have a 7-2 record at Adelaide Oval which is bizarre. 5-0 there against Port which is totally unexpected.

 

[The Warlord]

No it’s not what hinders us in finals. We won on the G heaps when the talent was there. Bit of a cop out to blame the HGA now that we aren’t as good.

No we don’t need to bottom out, managed to get to 7 GF’s and close to 20 finals series since the last bottom 4 finish. Bottoming our is a philosophy not shared by the powers that be at the footy club.

Fair enough - and not bottoming out is the way to go.

But does it perhaps ... mask ... wider problems?

 

[Scotland]

What are the wider problems?

Geelong are in the clump of sides in the 6th to 12th bracket. 15 wins was enough for 3rd, 12 wins got you 12th. Pretty even comp, even 2nd wasn't locked in until Rd 23.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Fair enough - and not bottoming out is the way to go.

But does it perhaps ... mask ... wider problems?

Probably masks the lack of quality outside speed and run, but that also may come back to talent

 

[Vdubs]

Does the home ground advantage keep Geelong competitive enough to think it doesn't need a major overhaul, where in fact it does?

To be really fair, how many other teams get to play 11 of their games at their home ground, not 9?
ALL, except Geelong maybe.
Playing home games v Pies, Hawks, Tigers, Demons at the G, is NOT a home game for GFC,
If we played 11 home games at Geelong, which would be novel, unprecedented, yet VERY FAIR, then we could talk about HGA being a double edged sword.
Right now, the inequities are an issue because we are not a super team, we are middle of the road, and playing any home game at the G is an advantage to the G team, surely.
The aim is to get there. Top 8. As this comp is inherently unfair in that we do not play each team twice, the only fair solution is to be given 11 HOME games at HOME. If we fail after getting there , so be it.
Personally, being Melbourne based, I selfishly like us playing at the G, but it is clearly not to our advantage.

 

[JohnZ]

To be really fair, how many other teams get to play 11 of their games at their home ground, not 9?
ALL, except Geelong maybe.
Playing home games v Pies, Hawks, Tigers, Demons at the G, is NOT a home game for GFC,
If we played 11 home games at Geelong, which would be novel, unprecedented, yet VERY FAIR, then we could talk about HGA being a double edged sword.
Right now, the inequities are an issue because we are not a super team, we are middle of the road, and playing any home game at the G is an advantage to the G team, surely.

To be fair, Collingwood and Richmond cop 1 or 2 Docklands home games against Docklands tennants (something we have escaped 2 years in a row now).

Having said that, Collingwood, Richmond + Geelong should get 11 home games at their preferred ground, before clubs like Hawthorn + North can sell all their games interstate.

 

[Vdubs]

To be fair, Collingwood and Richmond cop 1 or 2 Docklands home games against Docklands tennants (something we have escaped 2 years in a row now).

Having said that, Collingwood, Richmond + Geelong should get 11 home games at their preferred ground, before clubs like Hawthorn + North can sell all their games interstate.

How many games do those teams play on their home grounds? Come back to me with that number, to be fair, please.

 

[The Warlord]

To be really fair, how many other teams get to play 11 of their games at their home ground, not 9?
ALL, except Geelong maybe.
Playing home games v Pies, Hawks, Tigers, Demons at the G, is NOT a home game for GFC,
If we played 11 home games at Geelong, which would be novel, unprecedented, yet VERY FAIR, then we could talk about HGA being a double edged sword.
Right now, the inequities are an issue because we are not a super team, we are middle of the road, and playing any home game at the G is an advantage to the G team, surely.
The aim is to get there. Top 8. As this comp is inherently unfair in that we do not play each team twice, the only fair solution is to be given 11 HOME games at HOME. If we fail after getting there , so be it.
Personally, being Melbourne based, I selfishly like us playing at the G, but it is clearly not to our advantage.

Only a few other teams have a dedicated home ground though. As in don't have to share.

I see it with North and Tassie. We win lots of games because we play the ground so well.

Same with you and Kardinia Park.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Yes, as all teams design a gameplan to win at home to win as many games to finish as high as possible. That is why MCG tenant teams have such a big advantage as gf is always at MCG.

For example Port Adelaide can't design a gameplan to win at MCG as they only play there a couple times a year and won't even make finals if they did that

 

[The Warlord]

What are the wider problems?

Geelong are in the clump of sides in the 6th to 12th bracket. 15 wins was enough for 3rd, 12 wins got you 12th. Pretty even comp, even 2nd wasn't locked in until Rd 23.

The wider problem is they get exposed in finals.

When we played them there this year they beat us. Had the game been at Etihad, I reckon it would have been 50/50. If it were in Hobart we would have won.

They have a team that's great at home.

 

[The Warlord]

Yes, as all teams design a gameplan to win at home to win as many games to finish as high as possible. That is why MCG tenant teams have such a big advantage as gf is always at MCG.

For example Port Adelaide can't design a gameplan to win at MCG as they only play there a couple times a year and won't even make finals if they did that

Please don't turn this into yet another WA sookfest about the grand final being at the G.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Please don't turn this into yet another WA sookfest about the grand final being at the G.

It's linked to this thread though....Geelong can't design a gameplan to win at MCG as they don't play there enough and won't make finals if they do that.

 

[freo_leo29]

Not really, they have lost all their recent finals in Geelong anyway

 

[Scotland]

The wider problem is they get exposed in finals.

When we played them there this year they beat us. Had the game been at Etihad, I reckon it would have been 50/50. If it were in Hobart we would have won.

They have a team that's great at home.

That's just because they aren't that good.

Look at their 2018 record.

1-1 at Adelaide Oval
1-0 at Metricon
0-1 at Docklands vs WB
0-1 at Perth Stadium
1-0 at SCG
8-1 at Kardinia Park
2-6 at MCG

Most of their Kardinia Park games they would have won at Docklands/MCG. Both Melbourne games for example were close wins regardless of venue. Their record is stronger there partly because they play lesser Vic sides and non-Vic sides there. Our record there since the 90s is horrendous, but I imagine if we played them 10 times at Docklands instead we'd still only win a couple at most.

Their MCG losses were twice to Richmond (1st), twice to Hawthorn (4th - bogey side), once to Essendon who alternate between beating us in Perth and losing to Carlton and once to Melbourne (5th) in finals when they were flying.

The AFL are the only ones who can correct any imbalance and that's by evenly rotating which teams play at Kardinia Park which they won't do. Geelong should be able to play 0 or 11 home games there if they want.

 

[wadistance]

See: West Coast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gavin Excell]

That's just because they aren't that good.

Look at their 2018 record.

1-1 at Adelaide Oval
1-0 at Metricon
0-1 at Docklands vs WB
0-1 at Perth Stadium
1-0 at SCG
8-1 at Kardinia Park
2-6 at MCG

Most of their Kardinia Park games they would have won at Docklands/MCG. Both Melbourne games for example were close wins regardless of venue. Their record is stronger there partly because they play lesser Vic sides and non-Vic sides there. Our record there since the 90s is horrendous, but I imagine if we played them 10 times at Docklands instead we'd still only win a couple at most.

Their MCG losses were twice to Richmond (1st), twice to Hawthorn (4th - bogey side), once to Essendon who alternate between beating us in Perth and losing to Carlton and once to Melbourne (5th) in finals when they were flying.

The AFL are the only ones who can correct any imbalance and that's by evenly rotating which teams play at Kardinia Park which they won't do. Geelong should be able to play 0 or 11 home games there if they want.

Agree

We aren’t good enough

When we were good this didn’t register as a factor

 

[Scotland]

Agree

We aren’t good enough

When we were good this didn’t register as a factor

Geelong's home ground advantage is symptomatic of lazy journalism.

As a WC fan I see it every few years. 2005/6 we were a top 2 side and Subiaco was a fortress, a 'house of pain'. Two whole years later I watched Geelong beat us by 135. Everyone suspiciously quiet about the supposed advantage.

I'd be interested to see how people reckon Geelong would have gone this year if they played 11 home games in Melbourne. St Kilda, Sydney, GWS, Carlton, North, Melbourne, Brisbane, Fremantle, Gold Coast. 8-1 W-L record. I don't see that drastically changing. Maybe they'd be better at the MCG if they played their home games on a ground with similar dimensions but it didn't seem to matter in 2007, 2009 and 2011 when they were flogging teams at KP and schooling MCG tenants in the finals so why does it matter now?