Is Tom Hawkins criminally underrated?

[Ricky Vaughn]

This is Bigfooty, so Hawkins is both overrated and underrated, depending on who's opinion you choose the consider the "general consensus"

 

[Sttew]

Averages just over 2 goals per game over his career. That's nothing special for a guy who plays so deep.

Can't disagree with that. He's not alone though. Apart from Buddy and Kennedy, today's forwards aren't killing it on the board (Cloke career average of 1.76; Tom Lynch, 1.93; Jack Riewoldt; 2.39 and Tex Walker, 2.33)

 

[Sttew]

I'm surprised the consequences Collingwood suffered by not replacing Cloke in time hasn't struck Geelong into rushing to find their own replacement for Hawkins.

Strong word is that Tom Lynch will join his best mates, Zac Smith and GAJ at Geelong in 2019

 

[Baird]

Inspired by my conversations with humble forum members TiggyTig and Dez! I ask you in all seriousness, who can kick better than Tom Hawkins?

Tom Hawkins is without doubt an incredibly remarkable talent. There are many forwards currently in the game that are also incredibly remarkable talents. There forwards I assume many would rank before him, but more talented?

It's easy to forget some of the amazing things Tom Hawkins has done over his career.

My case for arguing he is one of if not the best kicks currently in the comp would be as follows.






Maybe it's my bias but those are some incredibly impressive examples. I have seen other forwards and watched other highlights, and I'm most impressed by Tom Hawkins. My only critique would be the other top forwards do have more impressive marks compared to Hawkins, but Hawkins literally everything else. His instinctive kicking comes second to no key forward. Criminally underrated player imo.

top 10 tall forward in the league, not top 5. weak bait

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Strong word is that Tom Lynch will join his best mates, Zac Smith and GAJ at Geelong in 2019

I think it's the wink at the end that locks this in, I'm sold!!

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

Naturally enough it was his old man, Jumpin' Jack in number 26 who was the best player to come out of Finley.

OK, Tom's the 3rd best player to come from Finley then.

 

[Power Raid]

Strong word is that Tom Lynch will join his best mates, Zac Smith and GAJ at Geelong in 2019

if true, the cats can pencil in another flag

 

[master bate]

Be it through injury, lack of team mates or game plan he's been moored inside 50 far too much the last few years making him very much a one trick pony - with a small little secondary trick of being one of the best in the league at handballing off when getting tackled.

Dangerfield to full forward saw Hawkins start roaming up the ground again which is certainly interesting. Nice kick inside 50 - most forwards are, they know where to put the ball. If he adds leading up and back as well as the one on one wrestled when called for he'll be a better player. The issue then is it's more chance for his opponents to run off him and teams to exploit his lack of forward pressure. With the right training and motivation you can make Jack Riewoldt in to a good forward pressure player, I don't think you can do the same with Hawkins, he just doesn't have the mobility for it.

 

[The 747]

Be it through injury, lack of team mates or game plan he's been moored inside 50 far too much the last few years making him very much a one trick pony - with a small little secondary trick of being one of the best in the league at handballing off when getting tackled.

Dangerfield to full forward saw Hawkins start roaming up the ground again which is certainly interesting. Nice kick inside 50 - most forwards are, they know where to put the ball. If he adds leading up and back as well as the one on one wrestled when called for he'll be a better player. The issue then is it's more chance for his opponents to run off him and teams to exploit his lack of forward pressure. With the right training and motivation you can make Jack Riewoldt in to a good forward pressure player, I don't think you can do the same with Hawkins, he just doesn't have the mobility for it.

Lack of team mates - we have no one else who can play as main forward target, except for our best midfielder. We tried Mitch Clarke - fail, Stanley - mega fail, Taylor - medium fail.....

 

[Brennan Huff]

He’s like a Cloke/Casboult/Dew hybrid.

 

[emblurr]

Criminally underrated at staring into space looking for spaceships

 

[The 747]

Criminally underrated at staring into space looking for spaceships

Had too much melange

 

[Richo83]

Bigfooty seems to rate him above the likes of Jack Riewoldt and Walker and below the likes of Nick Riewoldt, Pavlich, Franklin, Kennedy etc. That seems fair to me. He only averaged 2.08 goals a game and I think bigfooty knows he's not a guy that people are going to rave on about for the next decade or so. For me, the only KPF who deserves that is Franklin, maybe Kennedy. Maybe.

All-Australian isn't the be-all and end all people think it is, but he's only been been given AA honours once, in 2012. No best and fairests, no Coleman medals, no high placing in brownlow medals or media awards. Franklin has received AA honours seven times, Kennedy three. When you're clearly, at best, the third best KPF in your era, it's hard for him to be underrated that much. Maybe some Geelong hater thinks he's a spud but I haven't seen that level of hatred for Hawkins on here. He's good but he's more Stewart Loewe than Wayne Carey IMO, not so much in playing style but how he'll be perceived.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

OK, Tom's the 3rd best player to come from Finley then.

That Crawford fella went ok too.

 

[Richo83]

I have seen other forwards and watched other highlights, and I'm most impressed by Tom Hawkins.

Franklin has the best highlight reel of any KPF in the game.

 

[Back One Out]

Hawkins lit it up in the back half of '11 and the finals and has been a good to very good player since then.

The tale of Tom Hawkins in 2011 seems to grow taller with every passing year.

He got his act together by the end of 2011 and has been a good player since then
But I think you're exaggerating a little when you say he "lit it up in the back half of 2011 and the finals"


Round 1-16
9 games, 5 goals
3.8 marks, 10.4 disposals (avg)
0 Brownlow votes

From March to June, he was in and out of the side. Chris Scott used him bursts as a back-up ruckman in an effort to get him involved.

From round 17, he became more productive as a forward. The Cats pummelled their rivals in most of those games, so I wouldn't go overboard about how good Hawkins was. Most key forwards would've feasted themselves on goals with that Geelong side running riot. The second half of the 2011 Grand Final was definitely a game where he "lit it up" against an injured Ben Reid, who was labouring with a sore groin. Hawkins certainly took a lot of confidence out of those last 9 games and became a good player.


Round 17-GF
9 games, 22 goals
6.0 marks, 14.3 disposals (avg)
0 Brownlow votes


R17 - Geel 20.13 def Bris 15.14 Hawkins: 13 disposals, 9 marks, 3 goals
R18 - Geel 17.11 def Rich 7.9_. Hawkins: 15 disposals, 6 marks, 3 goals
R19 - Geel 37.11 def Melb 7.5_ Hawkins: 17 disposals, 5 marks, 5 goals
R20 - Geel 29.14 def G.C. 6.2_. Hawkins: 18 disposals, 7 marks, 2 goals
R23 - Syd 15.9 def Geel 12.14_ Hawkins: 13 disposals, 3 marks, 0 goals
R24 - Geel 22.17 def Coll 8.5__ Hawkins: _9 disposals, 6 marks, 2 goals
Q.F. - Geel 14.14 def Haw 9.13. Hawkins: 15 disposals, 3 marks, 2 goals
P.F. - Geel 17.15 def WCE 10.9_ Hawkins: 10 disposals, 6 marks, 2 goals
G.F. - Geel 18.11 def Coll 12.9_ Hawkins: 19 disposals, 9 marks, 3 goals

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Poor man's Cloke

Jason Cloke wasn't that bad.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Good player but always a step below the real A graders.

 

[Back One Out]

Hawkins has been a good forward since that 2011 Grand Final

So how does he compare to other forwards over the past six years?


Top Goalkickers: 2012 to 2017
409 - L Franklin (129 games)
370 - J Kennedy (117 games)
340 - J Riewoldt (135 games)
331 - T Hawkins (132 games)
319 - E Betts (133 games)
281 - J Cameron (112 games)
276 - J Roughead (117 games)
274 - L Breust (144 games)
270 - J Gunston (135 games)
267 - T Walker (108 games)
247 - J Darling (128 games)
245 - N Riewoldt (117 games)
241 - D Petrie (133 games)
228 - J Jenkins (114 games)
228 - T Cloke (107 games)
219 - T Lynch (108 games)
212 - L Thomas (114 games)
211 - M Pavlich (97 games)

• Pavlich, Cloke and Nick Riewoldt played their best footy prior to 2012
• Franklin, Roughead and J Riewoldt had productive years from 2008-2011
• 2012-13 were developmental years for Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron

Anyhoo, here's some statistical averages of those 18 players listed above using the 2012-2017 timeframe Of Hawkins's best years.


Goals per game: 2012-17
3.17 - L Franklin
3.16 - J Kennedy
2.52 - J Riewoldt
2.51 - J Cameron
2.51 - T Hawkins
2.47 - T Walker
2.40 - E Betts
2.36 - J Roughead
2.18 - M Pavlich
2.13 - T Cloke
2.09 - N Riewoldt
2.03 - T Lynch
2.00 - J Gunston
2.00 - J Jenkins
1.93 - J Darling
1.90 - L Breust
1.86 - L Thomas
1.81 - D Petrie



Goals + Assists (avg) 2012-17
3.95 - L Franklin
3.77 - J Kennedy
3.59 - T Walker
3.53 - E Betts
3.37 - J Riewoldt
3.28 - T Hawkins
3.15 - J Roughead
3.06 - M Pavlich
3.01 - J Cameron
2.85 - L Breust
2.83 - T Lynch
2.71 - J Gunston
2.70 - T Cloke
2.70 - N Riewoldt
2.64 - L Thomas
2.53 - J Darling
2.43 - D Petrie
2.00 - J Jenkins



Disposals (avg) 2012-17
17.5 - N Riewoldt
17.2 - J Roughead
16.7 - L Franklin
15.9 - J Gunston
15.1 - M Pavlich
15.0 - L Breust
14.9 - T Lynch
14.4 - T Walker
13.3 - J Riewoldt
13.1 - T Cloke
13.0 - E Betts
12.6 - D Petrie
12.2 - J Kennedy
12.2 - J Darling
11.9 - J Jenkins
11.9 - T Hawkins
11.5 - L Thomas
11.4 - J Cameron



Marks (avg) 2012-17
8.8 - N Riewoldt
6.8 - T Cloke
6.5 - T Walker
6.2 - J Kennedy
6.2 - T Lynch
6.0 - J Gunston
5.8 - J Riewoldt
5.8 - D Petrie
5.7 - L Franklin
5.6 - T Hawkins
5.4 - M Pavlich
5.1 - J Cameron
5.1 - J Darling
4.9 - J Jenkins
4.7 - J Roughead
3.4 - L Breust
3.1 - E Betts
2.7 - L Thomas


Marks Inside 50m (avg) 2012-17
3.4 - J Kennedy
3.4 - J Riewoldt
3.2 - T Hawkins
2.9 - L Franklin
2.8 - T Cloke
2.7 - T Walker
2.7 - N Riewoldt
2.4 - T Lynch
2.4 - J Cameron
2.3 - J Roughead
2.1 - D Petrie
2.1 - M Pavlich
2.1 - J Jenkins
2.0 - J Darling
1.8 - E Betts
1.8 - J Gunston
1.5 - L Breust
1.3 - L Thomas



Tackles (avg) 2012-17
4.0 - L Breust
3.2 - E Betts
3.0 - J Darling
2.9 - L Thomas
2.9 - J Roughead
2.8 - L Franklin
2.6 - D Petrie
2.5 - J Kennedy
2.3 - J Gunston
2.3 - M Pavlich
2.2 - J Riewoldt
1.9 - N Riewoldt
1.8 - T Hawkins
1.8 - J Jenkins
1.7 - T Lynch
1.7 - T Cloke
1.7 - J Cameron
1.6 - T Walker


Brownlow votes 2012-17
86 - L Franklin
62 - J Kennedy
54 - N Riewoldt
43 - J Roughead
35 - T Walker
31 - D Petrie
28 - J Riewoldt
27 - E Betts
27 - J Cameron
27 - T Lynch
25 - T Hawkins
24 - J Gunston
22 - T Cloke
19 - M Pavlich
16 - J Jenkins
14 - L Breust
9 - J Darling
6 - L Thomas

 

[Furn2]

Would have been a gun in the 80s but the modern game doesn't suit his type.

 

[Macpotata]

The next Tony Lockett. I'm still waiting for him to break someones nose and give supporters the finger.

 

[Macpotata]

Hawkins has been a good forward since that 2011 Grand Final

So how does he compare to other forwards over the past six years?


Top Goalkickers: 2012 to 2017
409 - L Franklin (129 games)
370 - J Kennedy (117 games)
340 - J Riewoldt (135 games)
331 - T Hawkins (132 games)
319 - E Betts (133 games)
281 - J Cameron (112 games)
276 - J Roughead (117 games)
274 - L Breust (144 games)
270 - J Gunston (135 games)
267 - T Walker (108 games)
247 - J Darling (128 games)
245 - N Riewoldt (117 games)
241 - D Petrie (133 games)
228 - J Jenkins (114 games)
228 - T Cloke (107 games)
219 - T Lynch (108 games)
212 - L Thomas (114 games)
211 - M Pavlich (97 games)

• Pavlich, Cloke and Nick Riewoldt played their best footy prior to 2012
• Franklin, Roughead and J Riewoldt had productive years from 2008-2011
• 2012-13 were developmental years for Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron

Anyhoo, here's some statistical averages of those 18 players listed above using the 2012-2017 timeframe Of Hawkins's best years.


Goals per game: 2012-17
3.17 - L Franklin
3.16 - J Kennedy
2.52 - J Riewoldt
2.51 - J Cameron
2.51 - T Hawkins
2.47 - T Walker
2.40 - E Betts
2.36 - J Roughead
2.18 - M Pavlich
2.13 - T Cloke
2.09 - N Riewoldt
2.03 - T Lynch
2.00 - J Gunston
2.00 - J Jenkins
1.93 - J Darling
1.90 - L Breust
1.86 - L Thomas
1.81 - D Petrie



Goals + Assists (avg) 2012-17
3.95 - L Franklin
3.77 - J Kennedy
3.59 - T Walker
3.53 - E Betts
3.37 - J Riewoldt
3.28 - T Hawkins
3.15 - J Roughead
3.06 - M Pavlich
3.01 - J Cameron
2.85 - L Breust
2.83 - T Lynch
2.71 - J Gunston
2.70 - T Cloke
2.70 - N Riewoldt
2.64 - L Thomas
2.53 - J Darling
2.43 - D Petrie
2.00 - J Jenkins



Disposals (avg) 2012-17
17.5 - N Riewoldt
17.2 - J Roughead
16.7 - L Franklin
15.9 - J Gunston
15.1 - M Pavlich
15.0 - L Breust
14.9 - T Lynch
14.4 - T Walker
13.3 - J Riewoldt
13.1 - T Cloke
13.0 - E Betts
12.6 - D Petrie
12.2 - J Kennedy
12.2 - J Darling
11.9 - J Jenkins
11.9 - T Hawkins
11.5 - L Thomas
11.4 - J Cameron



Marks (avg) 2012-17
8.8 - N Riewoldt
6.8 - T Cloke
6.5 - T Walker
6.2 - J Kennedy
6.2 - T Lynch
6.0 - J Gunston
5.8 - J Riewoldt
5.8 - D Petrie
5.7 - L Franklin
5.6 - T Hawkins
5.4 - M Pavlich
5.1 - J Cameron
5.1 - J Darling
4.9 - J Jenkins
4.7 - J Roughead
3.4 - L Breust
3.1 - E Betts
2.7 - L Thomas


Marks Inside 50m (avg) 2012-17
3.4 - J Kennedy
3.4 - J Riewoldt
3.2 - T Hawkins
2.9 - L Franklin
2.8 - T Cloke
2.7 - T Walker
2.7 - N Riewoldt
2.4 - T Lynch
2.4 - J Cameron
2.3 - J Roughead
2.1 - D Petrie
2.1 - M Pavlich
2.1 - J Jenkins
2.0 - J Darling
1.8 - E Betts
1.8 - J Gunston
1.5 - L Breust
1.3 - L Thomas



Tackles (avg) 2012-17
4.0 - L Breust
3.2 - E Betts
3.0 - J Darling
2.9 - L Thomas
2.9 - J Roughead
2.8 - L Franklin
2.6 - D Petrie
2.5 - J Kennedy
2.3 - J Gunston
2.3 - M Pavlich
2.2 - J Riewoldt
1.9 - N Riewoldt
1.8 - T Hawkins
1.8 - J Jenkins
1.7 - T Lynch
1.7 - T Cloke
1.7 - J Cameron
1.6 - T Walker


Brownlow votes 2012-17
86 - L Franklin
62 - J Kennedy
54 - N Riewoldt
43 - J Roughead
35 - T Walker
31 - D Petrie
28 - J Riewoldt
27 - E Betts
27 - J Cameron
27 - T Lynch
25 - T Hawkins
24 - J Gunston
22 - T Cloke
19 - M Pavlich
16 - J Jenkins
14 - L Breust
9 - J Darling
6 - L Thomas

Good to see blokes that produce facts that matter. And Hawkins has fared well in the facts that matter, goals scored.

 

[RUNVS]

He isn't the same player now as he was a few years ago before he injured his back. He was probably a top 5 forward before his back injury, and now he is probably closer to top 10.

 

[theyellowsash]

Hawkins is a pretty good player, but one who for the most part was simply a bigger than average boy who was fed by a sublime midfield. He's certainly a better than average forward but I wouldn't put him on too big of a pedestal.

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

That Crawford fella went ok too.

Exactly.