Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I guess the French resistance were terrorists too.

You really have bought into the whole bullshit victim-perpetrator thing haven't you....

You can't honestly believe that the Palestinians and the French resistance are the same thing...that is beyond a stretch.

 

[faible]

Hamas were not why the Kuwaiti's expelled them, nor Jordan or Kuwait. Wherever they have moved there has been tremendous destabilization and bloodshed, driven by whichever representative group that has lead them.

Have noted you do the same with 'israelis'. Of course there are many innocent civilians, but you have to ask yourself...why wont any other arab nation offer them asylum?

I refer to Israel the nation state quite regularly. Not Israeli's the civilians of the state. Different things, very clearly so.

And we circle back to my comment about decades of oppression:

Funny that oppressing people for a few decades will create problems. It's such an unforeseen outcome.

Funny how little responsible Israel ever seems to have for their actions.

 

[QuietB]

They both should stop. Hamas is still firing rockets.

Its not genocide.

It is 100% genicide.

Items a., b., and c. below are not even in dispute.

Blowing up every hospital in Gaza and starving the population to death probably satisfies item d.

Big clap for Netanyahu for not doing (that we know about) item e. yet.

Israel are committing the worst war crime of the 21st century.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I refer to Israel the nation state quite regularly. Not Israeli's the civilians of the state. Different things, very clearly so.

And we circle back to my comment about decades of oppression:



Funny how little responsible Israel ever seems to have for their actions.

You seem happy to not comment on certain parts of my responses ie: "Hamas were not why the Kuwaiti's expelled them, nor Jordan or Kuwait. Wherever they have moved there has been tremendous destabilization and bloodshed, driven by whichever representative group that has lead them."

 

[faible]

Interesting you specifically chose to refer to 'Palestinians' as a collective being responsible for the destruction though. No distinction between civilians? Accident?

Interesting, after I very specifically pointed this out you immediately did it again. So not an accident.

Palestinians

 

[faible]

You seem happy to not comment on certain parts of my responses ie: "Hamas were not why the Kuwaiti's expelled them, nor Jordan or Kuwait. Wherever they have moved there has been tremendous destabilization and bloodshed, driven by whichever representative group that has lead them."

I have repeatedly commented on this exact thing:

Funny that oppressing people for a few decades will create problems. It's such an unforeseen outcome.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

It is 100% genicide.

Items a., b., and c. below are not even in dispute.

Blowing up every hospital in Gaza and starving the population to death probably satisfies item d.

Big clap for Netanyahu for not doing (that we know about) item e. yet.

Israel are committing the worst war crime of the 21st century.

View attachment 1988786

Where have they stated their intent is to "destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethical, racial or religious group' ?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I have repeatedly commented on this exact thing:

Do you actually know what the PLO did in those countries? It had nothing to do with being oppressed

 

[faible]

Where have they stated their intent is to "destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethical, racial or religious group' ?

The South African submission to the ICJ would be a good place to start

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

 

[QuietB]

Where have they stated their intent is to "destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethical, racial or religious group' ?

I look forward to you dismissing the source

Intent in the genocide case against Israel is not hard to prove

A database of 500 statements showing Israeli incitement to genocide provides ample evidence of genocidal intent.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[faible]

Do you actually know what the PLO did in those countries? It had nothing to do with being oppressed

Again, missing the point entirely.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I look forward to you dismissing the source

Intent in the genocide case against Israel is not hard to prove

A database of 500 statements showing Israeli incitement to genocide provides ample evidence of genocidal intent.

www.aljazeera.com

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Again, missing the point entirely.

Again, denail is your trump card

 

[madmug]

And neither would the Palestinians if the shoe were on the other foot. Its why a 2 state solution was and is the only option for peace.

But that isn't why they were driven out of kuwait, jordan and Lebanon is it?

Except Zionists reject a 2 state solution. They always have. Its why they murdered their own Israeli PM Rabin in 1995. The Zionists are in charge now. So they have & intend to keep their current Apartheid state. Their has only ever been one way to end such a situation. A combination of international pressure, & resistance/struggle. The US, other western nations & western media are siding with the Apartheid regime.
So unfortunately the situation will continue until some decent humanity breaks out.

 

[Zidane98]

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

The very same South Africa that refused to arrest Al-Bashir on an international warrant for genocide when he was actually physically in South Africa and were an active signatory to the ICC at thje time?

Amazing how South Africa's views changes whether it is an ally or an enemy of their allies that is up on charges.

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

Ok, so does this quote from the Israeli President - who I assume is senior enough for you - satisfy your definition of intent?

Israeli President Isaac Herzog said a few weeks earlier, on December 5, that Israel’s attack on Gaza is “a war that is intended, really, truly, to save western civilisation… [from] an empire of evil”.

 

[faible]

Again, denail is your trump card

Denial of what in particular? There's certainly bad actors amongst the Palestinian people, being oppressed for decades will always create the environment for that kind of thing to rise up. Which is exactly my point, it's fully and entirely expected that running a multi-decade military occupation of people will create a rich recruiting ground for terrorists.

That doesn't absolve the terrorists of their actions, no more than it absolves the Israeli Government or the IDF of theirs. But keep pretending those opposed to the actions of Israel are somehow supporting Hamas if that's the only way you can cope.

 

[faible]

The very same South Africa that refused to arrest Al-Bashir on an international warrant for genocide when he was actually physically in South Africa and were an active signatory to the ICC at thje time?

Amazing how South Africa's views changes whether it is an ally or an enemy of their allies that is up on charges.

wHaTaBoUt ThIS

LoOk OvEr ThErE

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

Deputy Knesset speaker Nissim Vaturi from the ruling Likud party wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter, that Israelis had one common goal, “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”

 

[Carn The Berries]

30,000 women and children......source?

Fair dinkum, that's the bit that you're fact checking? Does it change things if it's 20,000? 10,000? 1,000?

 

[madmug]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

Yes. Bias is one word if comment is misconstrued or altered unfairly.
However it's Hard to deny the actual words of the entire leadership of the Israeli regime, the IDF all the other players of the Zionist cabal. They are actually doing what they said they'd do. Repeatedly said it too.
Guilty as charged.

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

In the US, Senator Lindsey Graham called for the wholesale destruction of Gaza. “We are in a religious war here. I’m with Israel. Do whatever the hell you have to do to defend yourself. Level the place,”

 

[Zidane98]

Denial of what in particular? There's certainly bad actors amongst the Palestinian people, being oppressed for decades will always create the environment for that kind of thing to rise up. Which is exactly my point, it's fully and entirely expected that running a multi-decade military occupation of people will create a rich recruiting ground for terrorists.

That doesn't absolve the terrorists of their actions, no more than it absolves the Israeli Government or the IDF of theirs. But keep pretending those opposed to the actions of Israel are somehow supporting Hamas if that's the only way you can cope.

Nobody who is reasonable would argue that oppression doesn't create such an environment. If we are being truthful here though that environment was created largely by the Arab league choosing to wage war on Israel instead of accepting statehood / peace.

Israel has had war declared on it 5 times now since then - if you believe oppression creates a breeding ground for terrorists what sort of breeding ground does having all of your neighbors declaring war on a state create in your view?

 

[Zidane98]

wHaTaBoUt ThIS

LoOk OvEr ThErE

As usual, unable to formulate a legitimate response.

 

[QuietB]

Why would i dismiss the source. Aljazeera is a reasonable source, although is prone to middle east/islam bias. Generally this is easy for most rationally minded people to filter out.

A prominent Israeli journalist and radio presenter, David Mizrahy Verthaim, has called for wholesale bloodletting.

“We need a disproportionate response … If all the captives are not returned immediately, turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. If a hair falls from their head - execute security prisoners. Violate any norm, on the way to victory,” he wroteon X.