Its Time For Trigg To Resign.

[Cap]

But he's sure as hell being treated like one in here.

no he isn't.

he is being treated like an official that cost the club 1x highest paid player a minimum of 3 x first round draft picks and 2 x second rounders. That excludes Jessie White...

It is fine that you are his friend, and he is probably a nice man. But the fact that he is still in his job is a sad reflection on the quality of the football club.

 

[jenny61_99]

no he isn't.

he is being treated like an official that cost the club 1x highest paid player a minimum of 3 x first round draft picks and 2 x second rounders. That excludes Jessie White...

It is fine that you are his friend, and he is probably a nice man. But the fact that he is still in his job is a sad reflection on the quality of the football club.

Or it's a reflection on a Club that takes a long and respected career into consideration when looking at the bigger picture? Look, you don't get any arguments from me that he's lucky to be here still, but I think you are being incredibly unfair on him as a person given he wasn't the one that named the punishment in the first place. Whether he's here or not, we still have the same sanctions on us as a Club.

 

[Cap]

Or it's a reflection on a Club that takes a long and respected career into consideration when looking at the bigger picture? Look, you don't get any arguments from me that he's lucky to be here still, but I think you are being incredibly unfair on him as a person given he wasn't the one that named the punishment in the first place. Whether he's here or not, we still have the same sanctions on us as a Club.

I don' follow this sentence?


perhaps we are being overly harsh, perhaps a long career (including 15 years without a premiership, declining revenue - including crowds, excluding the club from initial AO discussions and incuring the biggest sanctions the club has ever had) is worthy of consideration, but surely that would simply give you the chance to resurrect your role in another position.

in the end, it isn't that Trigg is coming back, it is also that our board do not have ability to make tough calls or worse, they can't.

 

[headache1]

Or it's a reflection on a Club that takes a long and respected career into consideration when looking at the bigger picture? Look, you don't get any arguments from me that he's lucky to be here still, but I think you are being incredibly unfair on him as a person given he wasn't the one that named the punishment in the first place. Whether he's here or not, we still have the same sanctions on us as a Club.

Umm, of course he didn't name the punishment in the first place. Since when do people guilty of breaking rules or laws get to choose their own punishment? The sanctions don't change whether he's there or not, but getting rid of the people who are responsible for those sanctions being placed on our club in the first place is a step in the right direction to remedy the problem. The fact he is still the CEO of our football club is an absolute embarassment.

And as Cap has pointed out, if you break down his performance in a pure business sense (success/crowds/revenue etc...), he hasn't been that great of a CEO, even without taking the cheating into consideration.

 

[jenny61_99]

Umm, of course he didn't name the punishment in the first place. Since when do people guilty of breaking rules or laws get to choose their own punishment? The sanctions don't change whether he's there or not, but getting rid of the people who are responsible for those sanctions being placed on our club in the first place is a step in the right direction to remedy the problem. The fact he is still the CEO of our football club is an absolute embarassment.

And as Cap has pointed out, if you break down his performance in a pure business sense (success/crowds/revenue etc...), he hasn't been that great of a CEO, even without taking the cheating into consideration.

Ok so, please break down the performances of other Club CEO's and tell me how they differ. "Well respected" within the AFL is not something that is just given - he earned it.

 

[jenny61_99]

I don' follow this sentence?


perhaps we are being overly harsh, perhaps a long career (including 15 years without a premiership, declining revenue - including crowds, excluding the club from initial AO discussions and incuring the biggest sanctions the club has ever had) is worthy of consideration, but surely that would simply give you the chance to resurrect your role in another position.

in the end, it isn't that Trigg is coming back, it is also that our board do not have ability to make tough calls or worse, they can't.

Yes, look I get that. I do.

 

[icrow32]

Ok so, please break down the performances of other Club CEO's and tell me how they differ. "Well respected" within the AFL is not something that is just given - he earned it.

Have a look at what Keith Thomas and Kochie have done for port in only a few months, they have increased crowds, sponsorship, most definitely revenue and the general respect if their members and the AFL community, and surprise surprise their infield performance is better. Now look at the AFC and how we are going in all areas of the club.

The other thing is that there is no way Trigg and Chapman can have meaningful professional relationship together, I have heard that they take family holidays together

 

[jenny61_99]

Have a look at what Keith Thomas and Kochie have done for port in only a few months, they have increased crowds, sponsorship, most definitely revenue and the general respect if their members and the AFL community, and surprise surprise their infield performance is better. Now look at the AFC and how we are going in all areas of the club.

They were working from a base of Zero - they were ALWAYS going to improve once Port's on-field performance did. Not fair to use them as a comparison. We never had bay covers. The AFC have been pretty much of a constant over the years.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

They were working from a base of Zero - they were ALWAYS going to improve once Port's on-field performance did. Not fair to use them as a comparison. We never had bay covers. The AFC have been pretty much of a constant over the years.

That's nothing to be proud of or list as an achievement.

 

[headache1]

Ok so, please break down the performances of other Club CEO's and tell me how they differ. "Well respected" within the AFL is not something that is just given - he earned it.

Ok, how about Collingwood under Greg Swann and Gary Pert. Or Hawthorn under Ian Robson and Stuart Fox. Have a look at where these clubs were 10 years ago (remember the Hawthorn/Melbourne merger talks?), and where they are now. The AFL like Trigg because he doesn't make any noise, and is easily manageable. How do you think someone like Eddie McGuire is viewed down at AFL House? I'll bet he's seen to be an absolute pain in the arse by the AFL, but he's been nothing short of fantastic for Collingwood.

 

[Heafy83]

Have a look at what Keith Thomas and Kochie have done for port in only a few months, they have increased crowds, sponsorship, most definitely revenue and the general respect if their members and the AFL community, and surprise surprise their infield performance is better. Now look at the AFC and how we are going in all areas of the club.

It took the club 5+ years to turn it around. They finally go the right combo to do it. Who says its sustainable too. So far their crowds have been influenced by the following:

GWS- Tribute game to Macarthy
Crows- Showdown obviously
WC- Prob only stand alone game although a fresh start and winning ways will get more through the gates (also a sat night)

Will be interesting to see how many they get to the Richmond game this sat arvo. I dare say they will struggle to get the 25k that was at the GWS/WC games.

Crowds in SA have been on the decline overall for 10 years+. Most of it is because of live to the gate tv, I believe. However others are saying the stadium is the problem. Will be interesting to see what AO crowds are like 4-5 years down the track after the gloss has worn off.

So with dwindling crowds there is less revenue. We have also gone through a GFC which hit SA harder than most states due to our lack of industry. Most people don't realise but the club sold out all of their investments before the market crashed. A lot of that is good luck but also comes down to prudent management. Could have been a lot worse.

You also have to look at who we would replace Trigg with. Smart? Then we are keeping the same same and boy club mentality arent we? SA is hard up when it comes to corporate leaders. Most go interstate for the big $$$. Port only got Kochie because he loves the club and is their no. 1 ticket holder. Still resides in Sydney etc. Can't think of anyone with the same clout that would do the same for the Crows..... can you?

Im not saying Trigg is the man for the job but a lot of the crap heaped on him is unfair and there are many factors that come into play. People need to look at the bigger picture sometimes.

 

[Heafy83]

Ok, how about Collingwood under Greg Swann and Gary Pert. Or Hawthorn under Ian Robson and Stuart Fox. Have a look at where these clubs were 10 years ago (remember the Hawthorn/Melbourne merger talks?), and where they are now. The AFL like Trigg because he doesn't make any noise, and is easily manageable. How do you think someone like Eddie McGuire is viewed down at AFL House? I'll bet he's seen to be an absolute pain in the arse by the AFL, but he's been nothing short of fantastic for Collingwood.

Seriously......... you are going to credit these guys with their financial success and turn around?

Its very obvious an Eddie McGuire and Jeff Kennet are the reasons behind those two club's situation.

Also the AFL love Eddie. He is great for the game and brings in the big $$$.

 

[Cap]

I'd suggest people are doing Keith Thomas a disservice by putting Kochies name anywhere to do with the re-birth of Port.

the SANFL and AFL should be thanked as well.

 

[Mattrox]

I'd suggest people are doing Keith Thomas a disservice by putting Kochies name anywhere to do with the re-birth of Port.

the SANFL and AFL should be thanked as well.

a 4.5 million dole payment.............

 

[headache1]

Seriously......... you are going to credit these guys with their financial success and turn around?

Its very obvious an Eddie McGuire and Jeff Kennet are the reasons behind those two club's situation.

Also the AFL love Eddie. He is great for the game and brings in the big $$$.

So this "constant" at the Adelaide Football Club that Jenny was referring to actually has nothing to do with Trigg? Ok then. Why even bother having a CEO at all if it's actually the President/Chairman of the club who does everything, and is ultimately responsible for a clubs success?

 

[Mark Dreher]

Or it's a reflection on a Club that takes a long and respected career into consideration when looking at the bigger picture? Look, you don't get any arguments from me that he's lucky to be here still, but I think you are being incredibly unfair on him as a person given he wasn't the one that named the punishment in the first place. Whether he's here or not, we still have the same sanctions on us as a Club.

Matt Rendell?

 

[headache1]

Matt Rendell?

That courtesy only extends to upper management apparently. Because the bigger picture I'm currently looking at would seem a lot brighter if it still included Matt Rendell.

 

[Heafy83]

So this "constant" at the Adelaide Football Club that Jenny was referring to actually has nothing to do with Trigg? Ok then. Why even bother having a CEO at all if it's actually the President/Chairman of the club who does everything, and is ultimately responsible for a clubs success?

I never referred to the constant. I was simply pointing out those CEOs you mentioned, whilst very solid and prudent business men, are a very small part of the reason those clubs turned themselves around.

Any CEO cannot do it by themselves. They have to have everything line up to be successful. A strong board, strong coaching staff and strong playing list. It is then that crowds and revenue will look after themselves via onfield success.

You have to remember when Eddie took over the Pies they were a joke. They almost went broke too. He then brought in a strong coaches (Malthouse). They got exceptional players through drafts and prudent trading. Then came the success. Collingwood already had a massive fanbase. It was just all these things that lined up that got them to put their hands in their pocket.

Also its hard to compare us to Melbourne clubs. They have an advantage. People want to live and work in Melbourne. Thats the truth of it. Whether we like it or not people don't want to come here. Hopefully that will start changing with the city stadium, casino upgrade etc. We have to pay way overs to get players and staff to come here.

 

[1970crow]

Ok so, please break down the performances of other Club CEO's and tell me how they differ. "Well respected" within the AFL is not something that is just given - he earned it.

"well respected". I suppose a bit like schwabby at Melbourne. he was "well respected" in afl circles as well. I dare you to put together a list of afl administrators in the last 2 decades that weren't "well respected".

here's the first half dozen.







your turn.

 

[headache1]

Some excellent points there. The one I like in particular is everything lining up. We seem to have a good list, and a strong coaching department, but what we don't have, is a strong administration, in fact, they are currently hamstringing the rest of the club, and this is Trigg's responsibility.

When we looked to be building toward something great, it all came tumbling down due to sheer incompetence from our administration. I just don't understand how somebody responsible for that keeps their job.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yes I have. They were somewhat ambiguous I thought. What I know is that we did not exceed our salary cap at any stage, but that we'd underwritten these payments to Kurt should he not be able to achieve that with Third Party agreements. We did not have to pay any of that to him as he was able to achieve that through various sources. Even if we had to pay them, we wouldn't have exceeded our salary cap. The fact that we'd underwritten to do so without including it in the TPP, was seen as a breach. That we were seen to be involved in some of these third party agreements, which while technically true, wasn't the whole story. We didn't actually organise them, but we did have some communication with those involved along the line of "We want to sponsor Tippett..." and us agreeing to it. We didn't instigate the extra payments, but we were seen to be involved, which you can't be. I believe this would happen at most clubs (see Visy/Carlton/
Judd).

The biggest issue, by far, was the contract involving Tippett as negotiated by Reid, and that's what we copped the biggest whack for.

Most commentators, and opposition supporters believe we got off very lightly. I believe our negotiated penalty served two purposes. 1) it was commensurate with the level of stuff up (ie. bad but not on a par with either Essendon or Carlton before us; was our first ever offense and we co-operated fully), and 2) allowed the AFL to establish a precedent for the upcoming tanking disaster with Melbourne (ie. applying the majority of punishment to the individuals involved without crushing the Club).

There is no doubt that Trigg made a huge mistake by not getting the rescinded agreement in writing. I believe though, that a $50,000 fine, and 6 month suspension (not to mention the stigma with living with this) is a massive penalty that he has to wear for the rest of his life.

There is no rescinded agreement.

It can't have been rescinded anyway, because the reason Tippett signed in the first place was because of the illegal inducements we offered. So we had used illegal means to gain the signature of the player. Even if Blucher had agreed to call off the deal and tear up the letter and not force Harper to scurry around organising extra sponsorship deals, there was still the little matter of us cheating to keep a player on our list.

If we had managed to sneak into the 2012 grand final and won - and then this had broken loose - that we had a player on our list that we shouldn't have. We would have had the premiership stripped of us. One of the reasons we got off "lightly" was not because of some political moving and shaking from Trigg/Chapman, it was because from 2010-12 we didn't win anything significant so no one cared that much.

And just so we're clear on exactly what we did:

“The charges against the Adelaide Crows Football Club, its officials and former player Kurt Tippett all related to, firstly, a side agreement, outside the standard playing contract, for the Adelaide Crows to transfer player Tippett to the club of his choice after the 2012 season; This agreement was signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year.
“Secondly, there were side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett of $100,000 in both 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the club for promotional work; These side agreements were signed in 2009 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL. The effect of this would have been to make Kurt Tippett a free agent when he was not entitled to be one.
“Thirdly, there was the facilitation by the Adelaide Crows Football Club of three separate side agreements, outside the operation of the TPP rules, for payments to player Tippett in 2011 and 2012, in addition to his standard playing contract and an ASA contract with the Club for promotional work. The facilitation of these agreements occurred across the various years 2009, 2010 and 2011 and did not come to the attention of the AFL until the latter part of this year. As part of this, a number of inaccurate statutory declarations were lodged by the Adelaide Crows with the AFL.”

 

[skoobydoo]

Some excellent points there. The one I like in particular is everything lining up. We seem to have a good list, and a strong coaching department, but what we don't have, is a strong administration, in fact, they are currently hamstringing the rest of the club, and this is Trigg's responsibility.

When we looked to be building toward something great, it all came tumbling down due to sheer incompetence from our administration. I just don't understand how somebody responsible for that keeps their job.

Don't forget the AFC is still answering to SANFL. I think that is where a lot of the 'hamstringing' is originating. Please lets be our own club with our own pokies(or whatever) and our own seconds side.

And it will be interesting to see the longer term crowds at AO. My gut feel is that it will be great for Power and SACA and the corporate dwellers, but will be a disappointment for most people, particularly those exposed to the weather on the NE side.

 

[Cap]

Don't forget the AFC is still answering to SANFL. I think that is where a lot of the 'hamstringing' is originating. Please lets be our own club with our own pokies(or whatever) and our own seconds side.

And it will be interesting to see the longer term crowds at AO. My gut feel is that it will be great for Power and SACA and the corporate dwellers, but will be a disappointment for most people, particularly those exposed to the weather on the NE side.

it is going to be no different for anyone.

 

[icrow32]

Or it's a reflection on a Club that takes a long and respected career into consideration when looking at the bigger picture? Look, you don't get any arguments from me that he's lucky to be here still, but I think you are being incredibly unfair on him as a person given he wasn't the one that named the punishment in the first place. Whether he's here or not, we still have the same sanctions on us as a Club.

Did you hear the interview with Trigg and Chapman on 5AA just after the punishment was handed down? You know the interview where they were going to tell all to us supporters. Most, actually all used car salesman are more trusting than these 2 incompetent cheats. They do not give a flying #^& about the members, they only care about themselves and their own little empire. As a person Trigg comes across as a smug, arrogant and out of touch.

Now he may not actually be like this in private but his actions and his treatment of supporters (only a select few going to the shed, calling supporters pathetic etc etc) and the fact he has acheived aboslutely nothing while CEO has opened himself wide open for criticism.
If I am wrong, then when he strides on back into the AFC on July 1 he will open himself up to members, questions etc and address the dark Tippet shaped cloud hanging over the club, if I am right he will carry on business as usual with Chapman blowing smoke up his arse for the best part of a month.

Lets see which way this pans out.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Matt Rendell?

Where we would be right now without his recruiting? That's a scary thought, with no decent draft picks for the next two years and playing almost $1 million under the salary cap this year.

Rendell's retrospective contribution to our club has saved a lot of red faces (the most obvious being Trigg) up to and including the present time and beyond.

The irony is incredible.