Society/Culture Jennifer Hawkins bares all to promote positive body image in young women

[Geelong_Sicko]

Evolution would like a word with you.

Asians are not how humans should look. Asians are how Asians should look. The BMI construct of 20-25 is for Western society, and is specifically modified for Asians.

Are you saying that Asians aren't human?

You know precisely what was meant by that. There, your bait worked.

I wasn't trying to bait you, BomberGal. It just reminded me of a conversation I had with a racist mate of mine (yeah, I meet all sorts) who was saying things similar to you, but stronger and more blatant, inferring that Asians were inferior because they were smaller on average than us 'white folk'.

I can't ever seem to see eye-to-eye with racists. Not on that point, anyway.

'Asians are not how humans should look' just DOSEN'T look/sound right, even though I know you meant the BMI approach is different for them because of the difference in their size and body shape. Same for the bigger-than-average Maoris and the Pacific Islanders. Same with the Mayans living in Southern Mexico/Guatemala, etc. They're smaller in size too.

 

[BomberGal]

I wasn't trying to bait you, BomberGal. It just reminded me of a conversation I had with a racist mate of mine (yeah, I meet all sorts) who was saying things similar to you, but stronger and more blatant, inferring that Asians were inferior because they were smaller on average than us 'white folk'.

I can't ever seem to see eye-to-eye with racists. Not on that point, anyway.

'Asians are not how humans should look' just DOSEN'T look/sound right, even though I know you meant the BMI approach is different for them because of the difference in their size and body shape. Same for the bigger-than-average Maoris and the Pacific Islanders. Same with the Mayans living in Southern Mexico/Guatemala, etc. They're smaller in size too.

Well, in that case, you should probably take off the PC-coloured glasses! You could replace Asians with any race. Caucasians included. Or rephrase it as 'not how all humans should look'. I'm no racist, just a biologist who gets fed up with people putting out this 'race is only a social construct' line.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm no racist, just a biologist who gets fed up with people putting out this 'race is only a social construct' line.

Just curious, does this also pertain to intelligence aswell?

(Don't answer by introducing us to debates about the definition of intelligence)

 

[medusala]

If the ALP brought in a 'fat tax', you would be one of the first on here to label it 'social engineering' from a 'high-tax, revenue-raising' party.

????

It's a definitional thing. Tax as in stopping fat people from accessing health services for obesity related conditions. That is user pays.

Ditto taking prescriptions for obesity related illness out of pbs.

I do not mean a blanket tax on say "fast foods" which hurts skinny and fat people alike.

Individual responsibility goes hand in hand with liberalism

 

[Eagle87]

a) She is not Asian. People can go on all they want about equality of races but the fact remains that there are, genetically speaking, different races of humans with slightly different traits.

Apparently, in my stupidity, I thought you could grasp a basic point. There is likely to be as much evolutionary variance across Caucasians as there is between an "average" Asian and an "average" Caucasian, no?

Which is to say that I could find you 2 caucasians who are so disparate genetically so as to make your "point" somewhat moot.

b) I never said she was unhealthy, but I wouldn't be surprised if she were underweight. I've said in this thread that she looks gorgeous and has a reasonably attainable body shape.

Based on a caucasian specific BMI - which... well, see above....

c) It is of course possible to be healthy while at a BMI a bit outside the 20-25. It's a statistical tool. It's not designed to perfectly fit every human. But it's like weighing up cancer risk. Be at a weight outside of the range and you're more likely to suffer conditions related to X and so on and so forth.

Again, on average, against a standard that may or may not actually apply to Ms Hawkins .... genetically speaking.

In fact you make that point yourself. Thanks.

Oh dear. Do you even understand what the BMI is based on? It's a statistical tool. For a Western society, 20-25 is associated with the lowest rate of morbidity. Being outside of it - under or over - is associated with increased morbidity.

Yes, except when it doesnt apply to a particular individual because they are outside the norm in some other way.

I remember Wayne Carey making the point that he played most of his footy career at over 100kg - which made him "overweight" under BMI (28 from memory, approaching obese) and yet ......

I don't actually believe you're this stupid.

Good point

I'm not. But one of us is.

Or this stupid.

If evolution brought about higher body fat percentages over hundreds of thousands of years - not man, but evolution - and it would by definition be doing so in a healthy way, then yes, of course, that would be 'evolution'. I never said that increasing obesity rates in today's society has anything to do with evolution. Different groups of people have different body structures, but you seem to be basing your idea of what's healthy for everyone on what Asians are.

Not at all. I simply make the point that after spending time in Asia and arriving back in Oz, there is one unmistakable trait that hits you here - fatness! Its everywhere. For those larger ladies patting themselves on the back about being "healthy" not a "stick insect" or "scrawny" they may well be viewing themselves wrongly. When confronted with Asians daily, Hawkins looks great, a fit looking Aussie girl, far from skinny. When confronted with "average" Aussies she looks skinny-ish...... ones perspective changes according to exposure, not to overall size of the frame but to the fat on the frames...

Perhaps some perspective would cause these larger ladies to realise just how ****ing fat they really are - then they might do something about it.

For clarity girls, Hawkins body shape is no unattainable freakshow - its what happens when you eat properly, look after yourself are under 30 and havent had kids......

Those of you who think otherwise need perspective....

 

[jwolf]

If you're not in the same ball park, shape up.

 

[TheBloods]

I'm a bit confused by the reference to Asian women - because they are typically much skinnier than western women, the latter are therefore fat? That seems bizarre logic.

Having Hawkins' figure is not attainable for the vast majority of the female population. Yes, it takes a lot of exercise and diet, but without the genetics it's just not going to happen.

 

[mantis]

If you're not in the same ball park, shape up.

Same goes for you guys who have the same build as Shane Warne & not Ben Cousins.

 

[jwolf]

Same goes for you guys who have the same build as Shane Warne & not Ben Cousins.

Dont worry about me, I've got a great rig.

 

[campbell]

Dont worry about me, I've got a great rig.

pictures or it isnt real. lol

 

[mantis]

pictures or it isnt real. lol

Agree.

 

[Clay Davis]

Did you read the article?

In which article did the government promote being overweight as a good thing?

Perhaps you really believe that this "positive body image" program is really that - in reality it is seeking to address one problem (i.e. eating disorders) by promoting an alternate view that results in overweight people thinking they are "beautiful" - which is fine, but simply creates another problem.

You mean the body image program that uses a very attractive slim woman to promote positive body image. Which program are you talking about? The government's one (which doesn't exist)?

Your BMI post was genuinely funny. Thanks for that.

Good thing you can take yourself being shown as wrong in good humour.

Feel free to tell me why an entire race of people - the Chinese for example - can be underweight?

Many things in biology explain this, such as Bergmann's and Allen's rules.

As I said, BMI is a starting point.

You never said this.

Hawkins has above average height and this needs to be factored in. If you reckon she is genuinely unhealthily skinny there is no hope for you.

I don't think she is unhealthily skinny. You're the one pulling BMI out as a reference for what is healthy. According to BMI, she is unhealthy.

We are a nation of fatties. Increasingly so. Surely facing that reality is better than all the "big and beautiful" bollocks that goes around in Oz?

Yep, and it's generally men who have to face this, not women. Plenty more fat blokes around than fat chicks.

Haven't heard the 'big and beautiful' s**t in ages, if you can find a well-publicised reference from the last 5 years to such a phrase I will believe you.

 

[campbell]

Agree.

haha.
the thing about body image and this is that its a dangerous thing to talk about a model who has in a lot of eyes a perfect body, saying she is imperfect.

teenage girls aspire to be like her, and she thinks she is not perfect. its a bad thing imo.

a negative.

 

[mantis]

haha.
the thing about body image and this is that its a dangerous thing to talk about a model who has in a lot of eyes a perfect body, saying she is imperfect.

teenage girls aspire to be like her, and she thinks she is not perfect. its a bad thing imo.

a negative.

Actually, in those photos she has very broad hips, give her 10 years & a couple of kids, she might have problems unless she keeps up her diet & exercises.

 

[campbell]

I dont care what sex they are , but in pictures when their ribs are showing, it looks awful imo.

 

[BomberGal]

Just curious, does this also pertain to intelligence aswell?

(Don't answer by introducing us to debates about the definition of intelligence)

I don't quite get what you're asking...(is that irony?)

Do you mean is intelligence more than a social construct, that is, it shows biological/genetic/evolutionary variance?

Apparently, in my stupidity, I thought you could grasp a basic point. There is likely to be as much evolutionary variance across Caucasians as there is between an "average" Asian and an "average" Caucasian, no?

There is variance within a group, and there must be for that group to evolve. But the variance is not defined. There are traits which are quite well defined within groups. Skin colour is one. Alcohol, lactose etc etc tolerance are another. So is body shape.

Some groups are more genetically homogeneous than others. The Amish, for example, are highly inbred. Other groups are highly outbred. Asian characteristics are what you see. Caucasian characteristics are what you see. It's not really a difficult point, is it?

Which is to say that I could find you 2 caucasians who are so disparate genetically so as to make your "point" somewhat moot.

Go on. I suppose the skin colour difference between Africans and Caucasians is all chance, is it? There are distinct genetic differences between races, whether you like it or not. It's like gravity. Accept it.

Based on a caucasian specific BMI - which... well, see above....

I think it's pretty obvious from looking at Miss Hawkins that she is, in fact, not Asian. Therefore the Asian BMI standards do not apply to her. Sorry.

Again, on average, against a standard that may or may not actually apply to Ms Hawkins .... genetically speaking.

In fact you make that point yourself. Thanks.

Yes, except when it doesnt apply to a particular individual because they are outside the norm in some other way.

The BMI is a statistical tool. I cannot say it enough. And I can only repeat myself really. If your weight lies outside the 20-25 range, you are at higher risk of weight related issues. I'm not saying she's not healthy. But statistically she is at a higher risk if she is underweight. Basically, what you are arguing is akin to saying that if a smoker does have lung cancer (yet), then smoking could be a perfectly healthy habit. It's about risk.

She does in fact belong in this statistical group. There is no reason for her not to be. The "20-25 = healthy" group is not defined as those who happen to have BMIs of 20-25. It applies to the population the BMI is based on - those outside the healthy BMI as well (and for good reason, not athletes, like your strawman coming up). 20-25 being healthy would be absolutely meaningless if it was not demonstrated that being below this number was associated with higher morbidity. Fact. It just is. I'm not saying she's unhealthy. All I said is that she's most likely underweight.

I remember Wayne Carey making the point that he played most of his footy career at over 100kg - which made him "overweight" under BMI (28 from memory, approaching obese) and yet ......

There are a couple of groups for which BMI is useless. These include athletes. It does not include supermodels. Jennifer Hawkins is not an athlete and we're not talking about extra muscle mass here. You have set up a strawman. Most individuals are not stacking on extra muscle mass, and are not included in evaluations of morbidity associated with BMI.

However, if you wish to include Wayne Carey as an example of being outside the BMI being perfectly healthy, as Jennifer Hawkins is, then I suggest to you that Wayne Carey's body shape is perfectly attainable and simply what happens when you just naturally 'look after yourself'.

Not at all. I simply make the point that after spending time in Asia and arriving back in Oz, there is one unmistakable trait that hits you here - fatness! Its everywhere. For those larger ladies patting themselves on the back about being "healthy" not a "stick insect" or "scrawny" they may well be viewing themselves wrongly. When confronted with Asians daily, Hawkins looks great, a fit looking Aussie girl, far from skinny. When confronted with "average" Aussies she looks skinny-ish...... ones perspective changes according to exposure, not to overall size of the frame but to the fat on the frames...

Perhaps some perspective would cause these larger ladies to realise just how ****ing fat they really are - then they might do something about it.

Let's just say it again. This is not Asia. For goodness sake. You are making yourself look like a complete idiot. You cannot compare the body shapes, because they are not the same race! You may as well compare Caucasians to a race who are more heavily built and say that makes Caucasians healthier. No, it is the way evolution has designed the bodies. Asians are naturally a smaller build, some Africans for example are a much larger build, Hispanic women tend to be much curvier, Caucasians tend to be middle ground. Just stop the Asia comparison. It really is ridiculous.

And you are actually starting to come off like a bit of a misogynist now.

For clarity girls, Hawkins body shape is no unattainable freakshow - its what happens when you eat properly, look after yourself are under 30 and havent had kids......

Those of you who think otherwise need perspective....

You're single, right?

Hawkins' shape may not be unattainable but I don't think anyone would call it standard. Obesity epidemic or not. Her life is dedicated to looking like that, she has teams of professionals to help her, and she happens to have hit it lucky with genetics. I've got girlfriends who work their arses off daily and are incredibly healthy but still don't manage to have that body shape. She's definitely still thinner than almost all my fairly thin friends. Except the Asians.

(PS: the group of women are are under 30/haven't had kids/have the time to dedicate to looking like she does is an incredibly small group of women that forgets the rest of reality.)

 

[omit]

Actually, in those photos she has very broad hips, give her 10 years & a couple of kids, she might have problems unless she keeps up her diet & exercises.

pretty sure she can deduct personal trainers as a business expense. and if not, I'm sure she has plenty of money to spend on keeping herself looking good

 

[dugrene]

Same goes for you guys who have the same build as Shane Warne & not Ben Cousins.

Most blokes know 'it's not how tall you are, but how much taller you get when you stand on your wallet' that impresses most women.
Tackle, looks, muscle pale into insignificance before a big fat wallet.

 

[medusala]

You mean the body image program that uses a very attractive slim woman to promote positive body image. Which program are you talking about? The government's one (which doesn't exist)?

http://www.youth.gov.au/Documents/Proposed-National-Strategy-on-Body-Image.pdf

Submissions to the Australian Government’s online consultation on body image revealed a consensus that something must be done to tackle the
unrealistic images of beauty portrayed in our culture. Images that are largely unattainable through healthy behaviour.


The National Advisory Group on Body Image recommends that, as part of the introduction of standardised sizing, the Australian Government consider consulting body image experts and the Textile Clothing and Footwear Industry representatives who are concerned with body image
issues to:
•• ensure sizing labels do not encourage competitive weight loss.
•• develop positive body image messages that can be distributed with Government communications on the introduction of standardised sizing to industry and consumers.


informing teachers of appropriate and best practice opportunities to incorporate body image issues within teaching and learning.

•• investigate and engage viral messaging to encourage positive body image.


Goal
The goal of the Strategy is: “to increase the positive thoughts and feelings that individuals have towards their own body as a means of improving their wellbeing.”


blah blah (taxpayer funded) blah

 

[jwolf]

pictures or it isnt real. lol

Paradise.

 

[campbell]

Paradise.

nice ah er, green trunks.

 

[jwolf]

nice ah er, green trunks.

3 Buck Job, Poppies lane.

 

[TheBloods]

Most blokes know 'it's not how tall you are, but how much taller you get when you stand on your wallet' that impresses most women.
Tackle, looks, muscle pale into insignificance before a big fat wallet.

And power.

 

[Clay Davis]

http://www.youth.gov.au/Documents/Proposed-National-Strategy-on-Body-Image.pdf

Submissions to the Australian Government’s online consultation on body image revealed a consensus that something must be done to tackle the
unrealistic images of beauty portrayed in our culture. Images that are largely unattainable through healthy behaviour.

Again, back to my original question: where is it that the government is promoting being overweight? Seems none of the women on that board are fat chicks, and the head of the Butterfly Foundation had two daughters with anorexia.

So I'd love to know how the government is fostering some fat chick conspiracy.

 

[randyzany]

I wasn't trying to bait you, BomberGal. It just reminded me of a conversation I had with a racist mate of mine (yeah, I meet all sorts) who was saying things similar to you, but stronger and more blatant, inferring that Asians were inferior because they were smaller on average than us 'white folk'.

I can't ever seem to see eye-to-eye with racists. Not on that point, anyway.

'Asians are not how humans should look' just DOSEN'T look/sound right, even though I know you meant the BMI approach is different for them because of the difference in their size and body shape. Same for the bigger-than-average Maoris and the Pacific Islanders. Same with the Mayans living in Southern Mexico/Guatemala, etc. They're smaller in size too.

IMHO layman’s opinion I think there’s strong evidence to suggest that ethnicities height/size has less to with genetics/”race”/whatever and more to do with nutrition and health of the mother during her pregnancy and obviously that of the child’s subsequent childhood.

Being from the Latin American community I constantly see “ethnic” 1st generation Australian born children who are usually considerably taller than their overseas born migrant parent from countries like Argentina, Chile, Peru. El Salvador (who incidentally have Mayan/Native American heritage to various degree) etc… It’s quite common to come across say,a 165cm (5’5) Argentine dad with a 175 – 180cm son/s (5’10). I’ve noticed the same applies to Asians and their Australian born off-spring but perhaps not to the same extent. I think something similar happened to Greek and Italian refugees from the 40s, 50s, 60s because the older (in their 60s or older) FOB “wogs” tend to be significantly shorter than their Australian born off-spring also.

If height/weight was truly genetic and due mainly to race this phenomenon would be rare and from my personal experience it’s most definitely not. Anglos and northern Europeans conveniently seem to forget that their forefathers weren’t particular tall either in the 17 and 18 hundreds. It’s only because of the financial success that the industrial revolution brought about and one of the by-products of that was a higher standard of living which has enabled northern Europeans to shoot up height-wise. Honestly I think it’s bit daft to simply think “caucasians” are inherently meant to be taller/bigger than everybody else, and reeks slightly of a misplaced superiority complex.