Jerusalem capital of Israel

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Sainteric

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Aug 5, 2016
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Trumps recognition of jerusalem could be concieved as a good thing and a turning point in the Israel v Palestinian conflict. Firstly it reflects what is the facts on the ground Israel has chosen Its capital as Jerusalem. Secondly the palestinians may now negotiate as they increasingly cant keep demanding everything from un decisions from 60 years ago. Whilst trump makes some stupid moves this is not one of them.
 
Bomberboyokay said:
Trump is a moron. This was both needlessly stupid and a free kick to Israel without America getting anything in return.
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Trump does it for his base evangelical nut jobs who beleive jews have to be in charge of Jerusalem for JC to come back and smite them.


Also it might get the me peace process moving
 

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Bomberboyokay said:
Trump is a moron. This was both needlessly stupid and a free kick to Israel without America getting anything in return.
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Who's to say there wasn't an agreement made that we aren't privy to?

Nothing comes for free, and this certainly doesn't. Whilst Trumps policies are quite often baffling, this is shrewd move, he now is now owed significant good will by Israel and will be using that to his advantage when he desires
 
Sainteric said:
Trump does it for his base evangelical nut jobs who beleive jews have to be in charge of Jerusalem for JC to come back and smite them.


Also it might get the me peace process moving
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how?
 
A few things:

Isreal has a right to name its own capital just like any other nation.

The US is right to acknowledge the city with the parliament and supreme court is the capital

Those who threaten death and murder over a capital location should not be rewarded.

The fact that this move threatens to destabilise the region shows how toxic and morally bankrupt the actors in this area are.
 
Harlequin Dream said:
A few things:

Isreal has a right to name its own capital just like any other nation.

The US is right to acknowledge the city with the parliament and supreme court is the capital

Those who threaten death and murder over a capital location should not be rewarded.

The fact that this move threatens to destabilise the region shows how toxic and morally bankrupt the actors in this area are.
Click to expand...
Because Israel considers a claim that an annexed area is theirs means squat to other than Zionists and fellow travellers. Under International law and repeated UN declarations, East Jerusalem is an occupied territory.

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.
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https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

Summarizing it can be said that the International Community unanimously agrees about the illegality of factual, administrative and legal actions taken by Israel at least in East Jerusalem. Either because they happen on occupied Palestinian territory and violate international humanitarian law, or because they violate the internalization of Jerusalem, declared in resolution 181 and 194 by the UN General Assembly
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http://www.kas.de/palaestinensische-gebiete/en/pages/11509/

Trumps attempt to move the US embassy to Jerusalem ( the only country to do so) isn't because he has any particular love for Israel, it's because it plays to his base - those who take the Bible literally and those who pour big bucks his way.

There is also the money in this. Trump’s campaign has received substantial funding from the Christian right and also hardline American Jewish promoters of Israel. They include Sheldon Adelson, the casino billionaire and Republican donor, who had given $20m (£14.9m) to a PAC (political action committee) which supported the Trump campaign and another $1.5m to the organisers of the Republican convention. Adelson has been lobbying the President persistently on the embassy transfer.
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And because it ensures more tension and conflict in the region thereby making a settlement much less a prospect

There were those in the administration who pointed out that the Jerusalem move will inflame passions in the Middle East and the wider Muslim world; make a settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians even more difficult; make it harder to maintain coalitions against Islamist extremists and may put American lives in danger.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-evangelical-voters-us-fear-a8099321.html
 
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Crankyhawk said:
What benefit can Palestinians give the USA? Otherwise makes sense for trump to enact what he promised on campaign. Makes 2 promises kept (TPP being the other)

Winning...

Lol
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Actually, he fulfilled over 70 promises in his first 6 months alone. I imagine this one would be promise 100+ fulfilled. Unusual for any politician!
 
rhinowce said:
Not sure what that's got to do with Obama and bush being dishonest and lieing to the American voter's.
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It goes to the more significant question of trust, credibility, honesty and character and I'd far rather that of Obama than a self confessed women predator, pathologic liar, dubious businessman.

Regarding Obama's statement, he did not say he'd move the US embassy to Jerusalem. What he said was:

"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided. I have no illusions that this will be easy."
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Which he qualified when asked shortly after by a CNN reporter about the future of Palestinians in that city. Obama said that it is "going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations." Fox failed (how surprising) to add the qualifier.

We are getting into territory more appropriate for the Trump thread but to the question of Trump's promises >

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ll-obamacare-repeal-immigration-a7706671.html
 
Harlequin Dream said:
A few things:

Isreal has a right to name its own capital just like any other nation.

The US is right to acknowledge the city with the parliament and supreme court is the capital

Those who threaten death and murder over a capital location should not be rewarded.

The fact that this move threatens to destabilise the region shows how toxic and morally bankrupt the actors in this area are.
Click to expand...

But whats the principle that Israel has the right to annex as little or as much of the west bank as it likes?
 
AM said:
It goes to the more significant question of trust, credibility, honesty and character and I'd far rather that of Obama than a self confessed women predator, pathologic liar, dubious businessman.

Regarding Obama's statement, he did not say he'd move the US embassy to Jerusalem. What he said was:



Which he qualified when asked shortly after by a CNN reporter about the future of Palestinians in that city. Obama said that it is "going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues. And Jerusalem will be part of those negotiations." Fox failed (how surprising) to add the qualifier.

We are getting into territory more appropriate for the Trump thread but to the question of Trump's promises >

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ll-obamacare-repeal-immigration-a7706671.html
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That's nice, maybe Obama could've swung by Palestine and dropped a few pallets of cold hard cash off because he's so trust worthy and noble
 
rhinowce said:
That's nice, maybe Obama could've swung by Palestine and dropped a few pallets of cold hard cash off because he's so trust worthy and noble
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Must say I don't blame you for the deflection. Must be embarrassing for you to have relied on a Fox clip only to find that the clip was as much about what was omitted as what was said. So unlike Fox too! Also, that a social scientist of some twenty years experience studying liars says he's never seen a person who lies more frequently and more maliciously than your apotheosis. And that it turns out he's also a master promise breaker too.
 
AM said:
Because Israel considers a claim that an annexed area is theirs means squat to other than Zionists and fellow travellers. Under International law and repeated UN declarations, East Jerusalem is an occupied territory.



https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm



http://www.kas.de/palaestinensische-gebiete/en/pages/11509/

Trumps attempt to move the US embassy to Jerusalem ( the only country to do so) isn't because he has any particular love for Israel, it's because it plays to his base - those who take the Bible literally and those who pour big bucks his way.



And because it ensures more tension and conflict in the region thereby making a settlement much less a prospect



http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-evangelical-voters-us-fear-a8099321.html
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Why are you talking about East Jerusalem when all the major parliamentary buildings are in West Jerusalem? Surely you shouldn't deflect from the topic at hand.
 
AM said:
Excellent question as it is designed to do the polar opposite.

Just how that proven sexual harasser and general buffoon remains president is mystifying to say the least.
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You are talking about Bill Clinton right?
 
Harlequin Dream said:
Why are you talking about East Jerusalem when all the major parliamentary buildings are in West Jerusalem? Surely you shouldn't deflect from the topic at hand.
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Because the Israelis claim all of a massively expanded municipality of Jerusalem, indivisible and eternal , capital of Israel which includes significant parts of the west bank.

What the principle here? Should Israel be allowed to annex whatever parts of the West Bank it likes?
 
Harlequin Dream said:
Why are you talking about East Jerusalem when all the major parliamentary buildings are in West Jerusalem? Surely you shouldn't deflect from the topic at hand.
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pugsville answered that wonderfully well.
Todman said:
You are talking about Bill Clinton right?
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When the subject at hand is being hammered and any worthwhile ripostes are few and far between, changing the focus to elsewhere and in so doing attempt to discredit the other side of the equation is nothing new. It's the old 'look over here' bizo. Don't feel bad about it. We've all done it.

Clinton, with all his faults, was no buffoon.
 
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