John Winston Howard - what is his legacy?

[Gethelred]

No I'm not backpeddling at all. You're missing the point. It's millions of lives vs billions of lives.

Ah, utilitarianism.

Again, hope it isn't my family that has to burn to accomplish your dreams, AP. Hope I'm not part of the few that has to die for the many to survive; you know, seeing as you're deciding to handwave people's deaths.

If you want out of this conversation, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Ah, utilitarianism.

Again, hope it isn't my family that has to burn to accomplish your dreams, AP. Hope I'm not part of the few that has to die for the many to survive; you know, seeing as you're deciding to handwave people's deaths.

If you want out of this conversation, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Let's review this conversation in 30 years and see who is right.

 

[Gethelred]

Let's review this conversation in 30 years and see who is right.

This isn't a 'who's right' competition. I don't want to win an 'I told you so'. That you think it is is part of the problem.

 

[Present Not Past]

... worse than going to war under false pretenses on the basis of a presentation made by the PM to cabinet without intelligence support?

False pretences? Well then please explain to me what AUKUS is all about then?
Do you even know what it stands for?
It also would never have happened without 100 years of military cooperation between the three countries.

 

[nut]

Committing Australia to a war that ultimately destroys a region for decades… on a known lie.
And then lying about those people who we were meant to be saving from an evil dictator … to give them “freedom” …. That they were throwing their kids overboard.
Making it legal to spy on its own people through the 5 eyes agreement …
Making up terrorist threats to change privacy laws so big business can own our information.
It’s hard to think he could be responsible for worse…

But I tend to agree that his worst legacy was destroying our country as a leader in renewable energy, destroying the CSIRO, bowing to the mining lobby, and not taking climate change seriously…

We are already at 1.5c increase in temperatures….

It will cost lives … it has already cost species… our way of life will change for ever…. People already can’t afford insurances.

I’m not sure how being personally responsible for helping destroy the planet can be topped…
Just show how f^^ked up John Howard was….

But people loved him because their house prices went up and they got to buy Plasma TVs …

 

[Pie eyed]

Yeah, but how did we even get John Howard elected in the first place.
By Paul Keating backstabbing Bob Hawke and splitting the Labor Party,

Howard got in on the back of voter apathy.

The old "time to give the other side a go" mentality, not realising what a mob of criminal campaigners they are.

 

[Present Not Past]

Howard got in on the back of voter apathy.

The old "time to give the other side a go" mentality, not realising what a mob of criminal campaigners they are.

Bob Hawke won four federal elections (five if you include the 1993 election, which I do).

 

[Vindicater]

Went I to Iraq for oil confirmed today.

 

[Rob R]

Went I to Iraq for oil confirmed today.

What was said today?

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[Vindicater]

Cabinet papers released today.

 

[Rob R]

Cabinet papers released today.

Thanks, interesting that Defence wanted to reduce its military presence and DFAT pushed to keep troops on the ground.

It would be interesting to know if we knew in advance of Bremers idiotic decision to disarm the Iraqi army which changed the whole situation for the worse.

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