Game Day Join in the chorus, let's lose for one and all - Adelaide vs Kangaroos

[Mego Red]

I haven’t even said to tank the season, this has morphed from the wisdom of winning yesterday, one game. We could have rested players and given the kids like Himmelberg and Davis a go. If we win with that team then fine, instead we loaded up with our oldest team to win a meaningless game. If you can’t see the benefit of developing a list it’s not my problem. Meantime if we had lost we could benefit from better picks. It would have been a win-win.

That's a far more reasonable point.

Personally, I don't think we need to blood more young players. We've done that pretty well. Himmelberg is a maybe, but Davis will barely hold his place on the list and has done nothing to earn a spot. You still have to have SOME standards.

I think it's more important that we mentally rebuild and start to give the playing group some pride and unity again. Get them ready for a massive offseason that they'll need to do together. We've been divided and attacked from all sides, and there's an obvious lack of confidence.

We probably could have done that AND played Himmelburg, but perhaps they thought it as important to give McGovern some time and reps in the forward line, and with Himmelberg and Jenkins it's pretty crowded?

 

[Elite Crow]

That's a far more reasonable point.

Personally, I don't think we need to blood more young players. We've done that pretty well. Himmelberg is a maybe, but Davis will barely hold his place on the list and has done nothing to earn a spot. You still have to have SOME standards.

I think it's more important that we mentally rebuild and start to give the playing group some pride and unity again. Get them ready for a massive offseason that they'll need to do together. We've been divided and attacked from all sides, and there's an obvious lack of confidence.

We probably could have done that AND played Himmelburg, but perhaps they thought it as important to give McGovern some time and reps in the forward line, and with Himmelberg and Jenkins it's pretty crowded?

That point has been made many times over the last 24 hours, some just chose to ignore it

 

[Mego Red]

You have to be the biggest hypocrite on here.

Really? This is how this started.

Says the man who has nothing to back that up with

That's just an attack on me. You could say "I don't agree with your point", but you don't. You play the man CONSTANTLY, and then throw your hands in the air when people snipe back. You've attacked Jenny as a person for years. It comes from a public position of disrespecting other posters as football watchers, and it is why you will often see people attacking your posts. It's often not your opinion - because none of these opinions can be PROVED, and you're obviously not an idiot - but the manner in which you state them.

 

[subaru]

One game not going to change our draft situation? Let’s see how the last round washes out. Irrespective prior to yesterday’s games, our two draft picks could very well have changed depending on whether we won or lost.

I don’t really care what you find, but I find you post in a Bay 13 manner.

Yesterday’s games -plural
Not in our control anyway

One of your points is that we should give the kids a go.

My point is we have already done that through necessity all year.

Would you rather a first gamer get put on Brown ( bearing
in mind we had our Talia Hartigan and Keath)and cop a 5 goal pasting ?
Edit - Bay 13 posting ?

I’m not the I’ve replying “blah blah blah “

 

[jenny61_99]

Jenny do you practice what you preach?

Did you miss the "We ALL" bit?

Just so tired of all this bullshit. It'd be nice if we could pretend to be adults.

 

[Bearded Clam]

What loser dribble.

We play to win. When teams challenge us, we hold firm. North came at us, and we overcame it. We were resilient.

That is the culture of a winning club, and what we should aspire to.

Crying like a bitch because you'd rather lose than win is the type of s**t that is condoned at Carlton, but nowhere else. It is unadulterated garbage.

The moment you start throwing games or cheering to win, you destroy your club's culture for years.

Just wondering though Kristof... this “winning culture” you keep talking about needing to be constantly instilled in the club and playing group... does DMAC, douglas and otten have it yet?.. are we trying to instill it into them?... is that why they played yesterday?..

Seems to me if these guys havent got that “winning culture” in them yet after so many years... maybe they might struggle to ever have it..

 

[Mego Red]

Just wondering though Kristof... this “winning culture” you keep talking about needing to be constantly instilled in the club and playing group... does DMAC, douglas and otten have it yet?.. are we trying to instill it into them?... is that why they played yesterday?..

Seems to me if these guys havent got that “winning culture” in them yet after so many years... maybe they might struggle to ever have it..

So, you think winning teams dump veterans for kids who are struggling? We've given a lot of games to kids this year, so obviously we're willing to do it. Gifting charity games to under developed kids does nothing.

You don't think DMAC deserves to play ahead of you? Then demand a ******* opportunity through commitment, effort and results.

Set standards, and give opportunities to those who reach them. Obviously, they don't think Sig or Davis have. Murphy and Poholke have been given plenty this year.

Personally, I want these veterans to just be depth. Or gone. But I also want the kids to be DEMANDING they're just depth.

 

[John Who]

Here's how it works:
We can have opinions on matters. This is cool. Keeps the forum busy. The site is maintained, and the admins get their pay.
Whatever the club does, it can be construed as "more good" or "more bad". BUT it's never a moronic/idiotic thing. If the club truly were run by a bunch of morons, then we'd be "tanking" each and every year!

There are no absolute right or wrong in what the club does in these last 2 rounds (unless playing all the injured/retired/soon-to-be-delisted). If a fan thinks their opinion is absolute (right or wrong) then likely you are a deluded person having some moments of grandiosity.

 

[boffo]

This whole argument comes down to two questions. Would you have rather we played Murphy and Himmelberg or Douglas/Betts and Otten?

I wanted to use the opportunity of a blown season to develop youngsters with potential, with a view to next year. It was a no lose proposition for us but ..... instead we took the short-sighted approach of playing experienced veterans.

The result? Yay, we won, fell over the line against a mediocre opponent and potentially diminished our drafting position.

But hey, "season ticket renewals will be coming out soon and as you have noticed we have a winning culture".

 

[Sanders]

Did you miss the "We ALL" bit?

Just so tired of all this bullshit. It'd be nice if we could pretend to be adults.

And you would just be pretending

 

[crowsup]

This whole argument comes down to two questions. Would you have rather we played Murphy and Himmelberg or Douglas/Betts and Otten?

I wanted to use the opportunity of a blown season to develop youngsters with potential, with a view to next year. It was a no lose proposition for us but ..... instead we took the short-sighted approach of playing experienced veterans.

The result? Yay, we won, fell over the line against a mediocre opponent and potentially diminished our drafting position.

But hey, "season ticket renewals will be coming out soon and as you have noticed we have a winning culture".

Does it though? You wanted to see Himmelberg and Murphy. Why stop at just them two? Other knowledgeable supporters believe they should have played others as well? Are you more right than them?
The reasons that are given for playing more debutants in these types of scenarios, i.e. -
1) Nothing to gain by a win.
2) It gives the chance to young people to experience the big time.
3) That doing this will accelerate their development.
4) It gives the club the chance to see which of these kids will make it in the big league.
5) And, it will have the extra benefit of giving us a better draft pick!
Imo, these reasons/presumptions are way off the mark.
1) What about the thought that even against nothing to gain, we can still find the effort to win? Don't most people say that about 80% of winning a game is in the head?
2) Now this would really help the club to no end? Why.. the boys will be so happy they'll kill it next year.
3) How the hell has this myth propagated so much? Who has proved that this helps? is it because Walsh said something similar about Hartigan? (Something about giving Hartigan 50-60 games in a hurry)? Has that made Hartigan a champion?
4) The arrogance of this statement cannot be overplayed. To believe that the club (coaches) have no idea on when to give these kids the chance to shine in the big time. As if the "knowledgeable fan" would know more about each individual player than the coaches.
5) In this particular case, it may or it may not. So why chance it?

Re no. 3. IMO, if the payer in question is introduced to the big time in these circumstances or too early, it may actually be detrimental to his development. If, for instance, Himmelberg and Davis were given a game this week, if they were beaten comprehensively by their opponents, what would their thoughts be? Would they be:- Gee, I better try harder or they won't play me next week? or:- It is better if we lose anyway. Besides, they didn't really expect us to win this? Did they?

 

[boffo]

It's really not that complicated.

In this situation do we pick a couple of promising youngsters or our absolute best, most experienced team?

It's s simple difference of strategy. (And the argument that the club always knows best is demonstrably false).

 

[crowsup]

The question should be;- Why would you pick a couple of our promising youngsters? Also, if you do that, which ones would you pick?
It looks to me that some guys here want the club to treat the draftees the same as schools and clubs treat their under 10 squads. I.E.- " Everybody gets a go. Regardless of ability. After all, we don't want to upset anybody. Just in case they'll do Gunston, kick up a shitty and go home to their mommies.
BTW, nobody has said that the club ALWAYS knows best. Just like nobody ever says that some guys here are critical of everything the club does.

 

[Sanders]

Do you apply the same view to your politicians, employers and super fund managers?

Seriously, do you?

If you just defer to notional, and transitive, authority that’s fine but be consistent

crowsup

Your silence on this point is rather conspicuous