Current Keli Lane

Did Keli Lane get a fair trial?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • No

    Votes: 10 76.9%

  • Total voters
    13

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Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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Maybe but if it was just a casual/first time nurse seeing her why would they specifically remember her out of the 1000s of patients they deal with? Bear in mind that this was now 22 years a go and this didn't hit the press until about 05-10.
There were two staff posted there each time I went in, both hijabis. I was the only blonde in there each time and the staring made me uncomfortable. Keli had no visitors, no family, she should have been watched and questions should have been asked when she was noticed gone. And remarked on.
 

BlueE

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Though her planning was neither brilliant nor deeply considered, Keli planned what she was going to do in every pregnancy. She had been given a hard time with the social worker's questions at first adoption; being made to think about the child was harder still. Conceivably she was looking for an easier option with Tegan. In the following pregnancy because there was no-one to give the child to (Keli's story) or because killing Tegan had traumatised her (the prosecution psychiatrist's theory) she returned to the option of adoption.

...

Keli's answers to my questions strongly suggested an avoidant attachment style, which is characterised from infancy by the child recognising that their caregivers are not comfortable sitting with and managing negative emotions. From a very early age, Keli got the message that her parents didn't like dealing with negative emotions. She learnt to suppress her emotions but still craved connection.

Keli's parents were heavily involved in sport, and she found her connection there. Her father was her role model and she became "one of the boys". She was strongly built, drank heavily, didn't bother with makeup.

There was little space in her teenage life of pre- and after-school training (at times 4.30am to 9:30pm) to reflect on becoming a woman. Her many coaches reinforced what Keli already knew to do — focus on sport. This also reinforced the underlying message — success (at sport) is what is rewarded.

If she was given such a hard time with the adoption questions from her previous pregnancy it's possible she didn't arrange anything and strongly avoided the issue with Teagan. Until the pregnancy became obvious to her parents and then she's confessed to her father that she hasn't made arrangements for this baby.

Her chances for success and possibly to play for Australia in water polo would be curtailed and her perceived value according the the psych. Did Dad offer to take care of the problem for Keli? She has been constantly lying about what she did with the baby, who she handed Tegan to if she actually did for no logical reason, in my opinion. Any scenario other than Keli killing her baby would logically seem to have either resulted in not being convicted or having a lessor sentence. But she would hesitate for a minute on camera when asked to tell the truth instead of telling the truth.

In those days with no body no charges could be laid and as this was known, I don't think Tegan's body will ever be found.


Professor Ann Buist assessment. She proposes your theory Bunk Moreland of leaving the baby somewhere hoping she would be found as more likely than killing her. Admits the possibility also of giving the baby away no documents or questions asked even if the story has some holes in it.

The case of Keli and Tegan Lane is the most baffling I've ever come across.

I can't say Keli Lane didn't kill her child — but I can say she doesn't fit easily into the categories of those who do.

Over a 30-year career as a perinatal psychiatrist, I have been asked to assess whether mental illness was a contributing factor to infanticide — the killing of a child under one year by their mother, or neonaticide if under 24 hours — in maybe a dozen cases and read research of maybe a hundred or more others. Keli doesn't fit easily in this company.


Visiting Keli in prison


Keli is a slim, attractive woman in her middle years, dressed prison-plainly, who gave a cheerful greeting to the guards. She was wary at first, but warmed up and was both engaged and engaging. She had the demeanour of a younger sister's girlfriend who you vaguely knew, chatting in the backroom at the local RSL club.

I had read the documentation of Keli's case and viewed the video of the police interviews. Tegan (the fourth pregnancy) went missing within two days of her birth, after leaving with Keli from the obstetric hospital.

The timeframe is technically outside the definition of neonaticide, but like the other neonaticide cases in reviews and that I have seen (or attempted neonaticide — in several the babies survived), Keli's babies were unplanned, unwanted and unacceptable.

Also in keeping with this subgroup of infanticide, she was young, with a pre-teen level of maturity and a family that didn't talk about emotions. She didn't realise she was pregnant until late; for these girls, this denial can be at a deep psychological level or actively pushing it out of their mind when it surfaces. It's difficult to imagine the shock of childbirth under such circumstances. They panic; hit out in fear, run, and may have no recall. These are familiar reactions to severe stress and trauma, and some courts will accept them as constituting a mental illness (acute stress disorder).

But in Keli's case, this is where the story differs. There was no evidence of the "panic" at delivery, typical of neonaticides. She knew she was having a baby by the third trimester, and delivered in a hospital. She planned what to do in all her pregnancies — two terminations; two adoptions; and in Tegan's case she claims she gave to the father of the baby and his girlfriend. She planned around her commitments on all occasions, making up stories if she needed to hide where she had been.

There was no compelling reason she had to be at the wedding she turned up at after Tegan's birth — she could have made up any number of stories as she had in the past. That she did turn up was in keeping with her character; you pulled yourself up and got on with things.

Keli did not have psychosis: psychotic and severely depressed mothers whose judgment is significantly impaired may kill their children for altruistic reasons. They often commit or attempt suicide. Other mothers who commit infanticide have less clear diagnoses (and personality disorders are not considered mental illness for the purpose of defence). They are often isolated, unsupported and desperate. They frequently love their baby but struggle to keep their child in mind as a result of their own childhood trauma, drug use and need for partner's approval. She didn't fit this group either.

Was she a narcissist?
Keli has some narcissistic traits, but doesn't tick enough boxes for a diagnosable disorder. Personality disorders are lifelong patterns, whereas her psychopathology was from age 16 to 24. Outside this time, she has no significant history of illegal behaviour or irresponsibility. She has maintained friendships, kept a job where she was liked, and sustained a marriage of several years. She has a current partner and regular contact with her daughter who she gave credible evidence of caring deeply about.

So why these hidden pregnancies, and what was it about her environment that allowed or supported this to happen?

And would this explain why Keli adopted out two children but, according to her conviction, murdered the one in between?

Keli's answers to my questions strongly suggested an avoidant attachment style, which is characterised from infancy by the child recognising that their caregivers are not comfortable sitting with and managing negative emotions. From a very early age, Keli got the message that her parents didn't like dealing with negative emotions. She learnt to suppress her emotions but still craved connection.

Keli's parents were heavily involved in sport, and she found her connection there. Her father was her role model and she became "one of the boys". She was strongly built, drank heavily, didn't bother with makeup.

There was little space in her teenage life of pre- and after-school training (at times 4.30am to 9:30pm) to reflect on becoming a woman. Her many coaches reinforced what Keli already knew to do — focus on sport. This also reinforced the underlying message — success (at sport) is what is rewarded.

'One of the boys'
There was little time and no encouragement for mother-daughter chats or giggling with girlfriends over boys and makeup and how tedious periods were. At important milestones — menarche, first sexual experience, first pregnancy — Keli felt traumatised, largely because she was unprepared or because of other factors happening at the time for her family and friends, and felt unable to seek support.

Here is the psychological immaturity I had seen in other neonaticides. But there were differences; in particular, why so many pregnancies?

In Keli's teenage years there were parallel processes at work.

The first was a need to be loved and accepted by her family. From her perception, there was no role model or encouragement to be anything other than outstanding at sport. Even when awareness of a pregnancy bubbled to the surface it didn't stay there long: she used the method of dealing with anything that caused anxiety, anger, fear or sadness that had been constantly reinforced since she was a baby — denial and repression.

The second process was her development from being "one of the boys" to a sexually mature woman.

It took six pregnancies for the latter process to win over the former. Keli's psychopathology was centred in that time in her life. Because she was never called out on any of the pregnancies (or at least not in a way she couldn't bluff past), she kept doing what she always did, the only thing she knew how to do with the tricky emotional female stuff — squash emotions down, get on and be successful.

Murder doesn't fit with Keli's image of herself
Though her planning was neither brilliant nor deeply considered, Keli planned what she was going to do in every pregnancy. She had been given a hard time with the social worker's questions at first adoption; being made to think about the child was harder still. Conceivably she was looking for an easier option with Tegan. In the following pregnancy because there was no-one to give the child to (Keli's story) or because killing Tegan had traumatised her (the prosecution psychiatrist's theory) she returned to the option of adoption.

But would she plan to kill a child?

It doesn't fit with any version of herself she has ever had, and is out of keeping with her other behaviour.

Lying to escape scrutiny is a long way from murder.

It is just as conceivable that Keli left Tegan somewhere after they were discharged from hospital hoping, perhaps unrealistically, she would be found, but I find it far less believable that she bashed, drowned or suffocated the baby.

These are acts of panic, not planning. And not acts of someone who saw herself as doing the right thing under difficult circumstances on each of the other occasions, who was upset by being forced to see the child prior to Tegan, and who continued to finally mature to a stage where she could keep a child, and be a mother.

In the past, even in the years of her problematic behaviour, Keli was concerned to provide the best outcome for the child within narrow childlike limit of thought, by adopting them out or — ostensibly — giving them away. This would include someone (father of the child or otherwise) who said they wanted a child, no paperwork or questions asked.

Though the story as it stands has holes, the concept fits with her psychopathology, which murder does not, however more complex it is than the average case of infanticide; from a psychological perspective, at the level of reasonable doubt.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-13/keli-lane-mother-who-kills-her-baby/10209554
 

Run n Spread

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Is that enough do you think though, for guilt beyond reasonable doubt?

Had she been convicted of illegal surrogacy/selling her baby to people whose identity she didnt even think to check or the arrangement was that she wasn't to know who they were, I'd be more comfortable with that. I think there's more evidence leaning towards that than murder with no body etc etc.
This. Also she didn't touch her bank accounts for 5 months. That is unusual. Even if you get a windfall or significant amounts you would still use your account for minor everyday things/put some money in use a credit card (This was 96 so ATMs even EFTPOS were common place then).....But 5 months

Also no one knew she was pregnant. What 3 times (Tegan being 2 so twice at that point) Come off it.

Add in the shonky defence. No report of a baby missing till 99 and botched Police investigation. (Bear in mind around 96 was the Wood Royal Commission so NSW Police/Public Services wasn't exactly stellar at the time)

Easy to conclude there is a massive cover up(s) going on somewhere and there are smoke screens everyone is putting up to hide a truth.

Personally think it should be Not Guilty/retried if possible. Too much doubt.

My theory is: Honestly wouldn't have the faintest clue. It would be a guess. Just shows truth is stranger than fiction all right.
 

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Kurve

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If this new contributor I'm seeing is for real on the ABCTV Exposed page and she's very adamant, she's suggesting there was an illegal adoption ring running out of Auburn hospital. Mothers in the early stages of their pregnancies were being approached about giving their babies up.

She was due about the same time as Keli and had her baby at Auburn.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Professor Ann Buist assessment. She proposes your theory Bunk Moreland of leaving the baby somewhere hoping she would be found as more likely than killing her. Admits the possibility also of giving the baby away no documents or questions asked even if the story has some holes in it.

The case of Keli and Tegan Lane is the most baffling I've ever come across.

I can't say Keli Lane didn't kill her child — but I can say she doesn't fit easily into the categories of those who do.

Over a 30-year career as a perinatal psychiatrist, I have been asked to assess whether mental illness was a contributing factor to infanticide — the killing of a child under one year by their mother, or neonaticide if under 24 hours — in maybe a dozen cases and read research of maybe a hundred or more others. Keli doesn't fit easily in this company.


Visiting Keli in prison


Keli is a slim, attractive woman in her middle years, dressed prison-plainly, who gave a cheerful greeting to the guards. She was wary at first, but warmed up and was both engaged and engaging. She had the demeanour of a younger sister's girlfriend who you vaguely knew, chatting in the backroom at the local RSL club.

I had read the documentation of Keli's case and viewed the video of the police interviews. Tegan (the fourth pregnancy) went missing within two days of her birth, after leaving with Keli from the obstetric hospital.

The timeframe is technically outside the definition of neonaticide, but like the other neonaticide cases in reviews and that I have seen (or attempted neonaticide — in several the babies survived), Keli's babies were unplanned, unwanted and unacceptable.

Also in keeping with this subgroup of infanticide, she was young, with a pre-teen level of maturity and a family that didn't talk about emotions. She didn't realise she was pregnant until late; for these girls, this denial can be at a deep psychological level or actively pushing it out of their mind when it surfaces. It's difficult to imagine the shock of childbirth under such circumstances. They panic; hit out in fear, run, and may have no recall. These are familiar reactions to severe stress and trauma, and some courts will accept them as constituting a mental illness (acute stress disorder).

But in Keli's case, this is where the story differs. There was no evidence of the "panic" at delivery, typical of neonaticides. She knew she was having a baby by the third trimester, and delivered in a hospital. She planned what to do in all her pregnancies — two terminations; two adoptions; and in Tegan's case she claims she gave to the father of the baby and his girlfriend. She planned around her commitments on all occasions, making up stories if she needed to hide where she had been.

There was no compelling reason she had to be at the wedding she turned up at after Tegan's birth — she could have made up any number of stories as she had in the past. That she did turn up was in keeping with her character; you pulled yourself up and got on with things.

Keli did not have psychosis: psychotic and severely depressed mothers whose judgment is significantly impaired may kill their children for altruistic reasons. They often commit or attempt suicide. Other mothers who commit infanticide have less clear diagnoses (and personality disorders are not considered mental illness for the purpose of defence). They are often isolated, unsupported and desperate. They frequently love their baby but struggle to keep their child in mind as a result of their own childhood trauma, drug use and need for partner's approval. She didn't fit this group either.

Was she a narcissist?
Keli has some narcissistic traits, but doesn't tick enough boxes for a diagnosable disorder. Personality disorders are lifelong patterns, whereas her psychopathology was from age 16 to 24. Outside this time, she has no significant history of illegal behaviour or irresponsibility. She has maintained friendships, kept a job where she was liked, and sustained a marriage of several years. She has a current partner and regular contact with her daughter who she gave credible evidence of caring deeply about.

So why these hidden pregnancies, and what was it about her environment that allowed or supported this to happen?

And would this explain why Keli adopted out two children but, according to her conviction, murdered the one in between?

Keli's answers to my questions strongly suggested an avoidant attachment style, which is characterised from infancy by the child recognising that their caregivers are not comfortable sitting with and managing negative emotions. From a very early age, Keli got the message that her parents didn't like dealing with negative emotions. She learnt to suppress her emotions but still craved connection.

Keli's parents were heavily involved in sport, and she found her connection there. Her father was her role model and she became "one of the boys". She was strongly built, drank heavily, didn't bother with makeup.

There was little space in her teenage life of pre- and after-school training (at times 4.30am to 9:30pm) to reflect on becoming a woman. Her many coaches reinforced what Keli already knew to do — focus on sport. This also reinforced the underlying message — success (at sport) is what is rewarded.

'One of the boys'
There was little time and no encouragement for mother-daughter chats or giggling with girlfriends over boys and makeup and how tedious periods were. At important milestones — menarche, first sexual experience, first pregnancy — Keli felt traumatised, largely because she was unprepared or because of other factors happening at the time for her family and friends, and felt unable to seek support.

Here is the psychological immaturity I had seen in other neonaticides. But there were differences; in particular, why so many pregnancies?

In Keli's teenage years there were parallel processes at work.

The first was a need to be loved and accepted by her family. From her perception, there was no role model or encouragement to be anything other than outstanding at sport. Even when awareness of a pregnancy bubbled to the surface it didn't stay there long: she used the method of dealing with anything that caused anxiety, anger, fear or sadness that had been constantly reinforced since she was a baby — denial and repression.

The second process was her development from being "one of the boys" to a sexually mature woman.

It took six pregnancies for the latter process to win over the former. Keli's psychopathology was centred in that time in her life. Because she was never called out on any of the pregnancies (or at least not in a way she couldn't bluff past), she kept doing what she always did, the only thing she knew how to do with the tricky emotional female stuff — squash emotions down, get on and be successful.

Murder doesn't fit with Keli's image of herself
Though her planning was neither brilliant nor deeply considered, Keli planned what she was going to do in every pregnancy. She had been given a hard time with the social worker's questions at first adoption; being made to think about the child was harder still. Conceivably she was looking for an easier option with Tegan. In the following pregnancy because there was no-one to give the child to (Keli's story) or because killing Tegan had traumatised her (the prosecution psychiatrist's theory) she returned to the option of adoption.

But would she plan to kill a child?

It doesn't fit with any version of herself she has ever had, and is out of keeping with her other behaviour.

Lying to escape scrutiny is a long way from murder.

It is just as conceivable that Keli left Tegan somewhere after they were discharged from hospital hoping, perhaps unrealistically, she would be found, but I find it far less believable that she bashed, drowned or suffocated the baby.

These are acts of panic, not planning. And not acts of someone who saw herself as doing the right thing under difficult circumstances on each of the other occasions, who was upset by being forced to see the child prior to Tegan, and who continued to finally mature to a stage where she could keep a child, and be a mother.

In the past, even in the years of her problematic behaviour, Keli was concerned to provide the best outcome for the child within narrow childlike limit of thought, by adopting them out or — ostensibly — giving them away. This would include someone (father of the child or otherwise) who said they wanted a child, no paperwork or questions asked.

Though the story as it stands has holes, the concept fits with her psychopathology, which murder does not, however more complex it is than the average case of infanticide; from a psychological perspective, at the level of reasonable doubt.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-13/keli-lane-mother-who-kills-her-baby/10209554
Fascinating. Good to see something of worth come from this whole clusterfu**. Glad they engaged this psychiatrist.

For mine she’s dumped Tegan and by some unfortunate luck she was never found by anybody - exposure, weather, animal etc.

Either that, or she’s left her somewhere for the wedding etc, and she hasn’t survived, and she panicked and did a very good job of disposing of the body.

I don’t believe her story for one second. Nobody can help her until/unless she comes clean.
 

Kurve

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For mine she’s dumped Tegan and by some unfortunate luck she was never found by anybody - exposure, weather, animal etc.

Either that, or she’s left her somewhere for the wedding etc, and she hasn’t survived, and she panicked and did a very good job of disposing of the body.

I don’t believe her story for one second. Nobody can help her until/unless she comes clean.
If she hasn't broken by now, I don't think she'll ever say. And if she changed her story now to any other scenario, I don't think many would believe her anyway.
 

CheapCharlie

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Cheers, that's interesting.

Well, Elise has her head screwed on at least lol
I wonder what stage of their investigation those theories were numbered?

Both of them believing the most likely is she did it and doesn't remember it... was their much focus on this in their doco?
 

Johnny Karate

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Not sure here that she did it when she could have walked out and left the baby there. In the two days she had to tell staff she would put the baby up for adoption, the prosecution's case is she was plotting to kill Tegan. Plotting to kill the infant she cared for, gave a middle name and went out of her way to register with Medicare.

It might be more about whether she had a fair trial and imo she didn't and it's scary.
Agree completely on your last point. It’s very possible that she didn’t do it. But she definitely knows more than she’s letting on - the Andrew Morris/Norris story doesn’t stack up for me.
 

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BlueE

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Five theories Caro v Elise.

View attachment 573950
They didn't seem to highlight nay of their theories in the programe but for me, except for the theory that Keli killed Tegan but didn't remember I think Caro nailed it.
-Didn't kill Tegan, but protecting someone.

-Didn't kill Tegan but gave to someone else.

Both the most likely, that this someone else killed Tegan and so important to Keli that it would destroy her if she revealed who it was. She may even fantasise that this person took care of Tegan without killing her.
 

Kurve

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Addressing the incest theory today head on, it's debunked with no evidence and all her children are fathered outside the family.
 

BlueE

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I wonder what stage of their investigation those theories were numbered?

Both of them believing the most likely is she did it and doesn't remember it... was their much focus on this in their doco?
This one made no sense for me, unless there was something in the psych report that suggested she was suppressing some memories so deep that she can't remember.
 

Kurve

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Was this a theory? I have thought the Dad would have done anything for her and is the one she is protecting, but I'd never thought of incest.
It was actually a theory that Keli may have been protecting the father of Tegan because he was family. There's such a stigma around it and it's a subject that's uncomfortable to talk about but as CeCe Moore widely consulted genealogist has said, people can have very dark deep secrets and incest is something she comes across more often than we'd think in her research.
 

BlueE

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It was actually a theory that Keli may have been protecting the father of Tegan because he was family. There's such a stigma around it and it's a subject that's uncomfortable to talk about but as CeCe Moore widely consulted genealogist has said, people can have very dark deep secrets and incest is something she comes across more often than we'd think in her research.
I believe Tegan is dead However, it's an interesting case because if she had done something like leave Tegan in the bush because she couldn't cope or admitted to infanticide almost certainly she would have served her time by now. I don't think she did. But I do think she felt trapped because she was made very uncomfortable (I'm wondering if she was accused of using abortions and adoptions as contraceptives) with the previous adoption and didn't leave any option other than keeping the baby until the baby was born. Whether it was the shame she thought it may cause her family or end her relationship (and cause further shame) if her boyfriend found out, that she was desperate and asked her Dad to help out?

She would not want to ever address what that may have entailed and has lived in fairy tale land ever since. But she does realise that if this was what happened and she did tell the truth, she would be destroying all in her family. I don't think she ever thought she would be convicted and didn't realise the pile of lies would get her where she is.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Was this a theory? I have thought the Dad would have done anything for her and is the one she is protecting, but I'd never thought of incest.
Conspiracy theory, largely by those desperate to see something that isn’t there.

Personally don’t think the parents are involved in a cover-up either. I don’t think they’re guilty of anything other than poor parenting, being emotionally distant and probably wilfully ignoring their daughter’s issues and pregnancies.
 

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