Review Learn more from a loss...What have we learnt?

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

As pointed out by Llyod tonight Jetta was the only player gut running,going to need to draft/trade for players that can gut run all game.

 

[yaco55]

I don't necessarily disagree with you re the "red carpet" but my guess is Hirdy's thinking was "Reimers has failed, Davey has failed, not having one has failed (Melbourne game), so there's no point wasting a week, let's try Welsh who's next in line". Whether that was the best way to go, I don't know, and I guess we'll never know for sure.

Re Hibberd - perhaps. I wouldn't be averse to Hardingham doing it, because as brilliant as he's been down back, the forwardline is a bigger issue at the moment.

Dyson's been injured, but I have no doubt he'll be in soon. Ditto Prismall.

Dyson injured.

Has played every game for Bendigo in 2011.

 

[Call Me Cake]

We aren't keeping the ball inside our forward 50 any more.

Time and time again, the ball would just fly right out of there and dig through the middle. This wouldn't have happened in say, Round 1, 3 or 5.

Fair enough, it might have something to do with our injuries and suspensions to some of our defensive players, but in the end, you need to learn to cover them - it shouldn't take 3 losses to do so.

Taking a toll on our game-plan imo.

 

[yaco55]

We aren't keeping the ball inside our forward 50 any more.

Time and time again, the ball would just fly right out of there and dig through the middle. This wouldn't have happened in say, Round 1, 3 or 5.

Fair enough, it might have something to do with our injuries and suspensions to some of our defensive players, but in the end, you need to learn to cover them - it shouldn't take 3 losses to do so.

Taking a toll on our game-plan imo.

Not necessarily a case of not keeping the ball in our forward 50 - Opposition entries into our defensive 50 is similar to earlier in the season - last 3 wees conceded 47,45 and 45. Have been conceding goals 33% of forward 50 entries and on the flipside only scoring 19% of our forward entries.

Probably a combination of factors - Eventually if you dont score goals from forward 50 entries - the opposition will find a way to achieve an effective defensive transition - not enough pressure at the clearances - and the defence has been leaking - We gave away three contested marks in the goal square in the first 15 minutes.

 

[The Bomb]

What The Bomb has learned, even though I probably already knew, like everything thing else.

- Zaka will not be as good as Cotchin.
- Hurley forward at the moment is 1 10th of the player he is in defence.
- Heppell's first half of the year has been in our top 5 players.
- Essendon supporters really hurt Stanton and his family.
- Hooker has been bloody great without Pears.
- Our 3 ruckmen have been crap in our loses.
- Players nobody rated are becoming our best, Watson had no love early in his career, Hocking the same, Hardingham copped alot of crap because of the Barlow hype, Crameri could have been delisted, and now Lonergan is getting better.
- Monfries, Welsh, McVeigh, Slattery, NLM are not my cup a tea.

And we will smash North Melbourne by lots, wait and see.
Just hope Hird injects Pears to bring back a lil emotion.

 

[TheDon35]

So while I believe the delivery inside 50 from the midfield, and the forward press absolutely need work, the biggest issue is the tackling pressure inside 50. Hardingham would definitely create some of that.

If this is the biggest issue then we'd be going far better than what we are. The buzz around forward pressure is over hyped and is a buzz word for 2010 / 11.

The ability to apply forward pressure when you have no control over the game is largely taken away. When a side is playing with control, and delivering with consistency and efficienty inside 50, it becomes a far more simple process to get players forward to apply the defensive pressure.

As it is, we've got our players pushed so far up the ground in an effort to win the ball back, that when the ball finally does get back in, we are tumbling a ball in to a two on one where it's easily rebounded out.

All good sides have good forward pressure. Because they control the game first.

 

[Slattery_20]

Many are saying we lack speed... I don't agree. What we lack are genuine gut runners. Apart from Stanton there is not one other gut runner in our side that wills themselves to every contest.

You look at Collingwood and you have the likes of Thomas, Wellingham, Swan and to a lesser extent Pendlebury all providing gut running. They're not the quickest players but my word when they come off the field they're spent.

We got blown away in the first 10-15 minutes by Freo's quicker flankers killing us on the spread and working ahead of contests far, far quicker than our blokes could.
Look at this side v the start of the year: it's basically (give or take a few) Hibberd & Welsh in for Dempsey & Winderlich out. A mid-pace & a mud-runner for two real speedsters. As much as Welsh & Hibberd (/Slattery/McVeigh & so on) probably want to get going they are basically incapable.

We need to find one or two very sharp blokes purely to get into space.
Thomas is a good example, he's very quick & works hard to get on the end of it on the 'spread'.

 

[daffo]

It takes a long time to build up a tank like that. Demps and Winders have been AFL players for many years now. We won't get their output from a couple of first year players.
These two injuries have hurt us a hell of a lot more then what the footy public think.

 

[Slattery_20]

It takes a long time to build up a tank like that. Demps and Winders have been AFL players for many years now. We won't get their output from a couple of first year players.

No, we won't; but I wouldn't really expect that.
We would be a whole lot better served if we at least had like-for-like guys rather than shoe-horning completely different types
That'd be two players I'd be looking at direct replacements for - speedy 6'2" ish rebounding defender/wingman & speedy tackling crumber forward/rover

These two injuries have hurt us a hell of a lot more then what the footy public think.

Agree

 

[Childish Gambino]

We got blown away in the first 10-15 minutes by Freo's quicker flankers killing us on the spread and working ahead of contests far, far quicker than our blokes could.
Look at this side v the start of the year: it's basically (give or take a few) Hibberd & Welsh in for Dempsey & Winderlich out. A mid-pace & a mud-runner for two real speedsters. As much as Welsh & Hibberd (/Slattery/McVeigh & so on) probably want to get going they are basically incapable.

We need to find one or two very sharp blokes purely to get into space.
Thomas is a good example, he's very quick & works hard to get on the end of it on the 'spread'.

The only two players with genuine speed that played on Sunday were Hill and Ballantyne. The rest of the 'speedy flankers' were simply working harder than us.

 

[Slattery_20]

The only two players with genuine speed that played on Sunday were Hill and Ballantyne. The rest of the 'speedy flankers' were simply working harder than us.

They killed us for speed all over the park.

The balance is out, we started with real pace forward & back to complement the slowish midfield; now we're out of whack.

 

[Childish Gambino]

They killed us for speed all over the park.

The balance is out, we started with real pace forward & back to complement the slowish midfield; now we're out of whack.

I agree that the balance is out. I just don't think the solution is as simple as getting fast players into the team.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Dyson injured.

Has played every game for Bendigo in 2011.

Doesn't mean he hasn't been injured.

 

[Slattery_20]

I agree that the balance is out. I just don't think the solution is as simple as getting fast players into the team.

2 points; firstly I think it'd be a better solution than Welsh who was just as poor as expected and secondly - looking at the list; there's no back-up for Dempsey & Winders. Whatsoever.

 

[yaco55]

If this is the biggest issue then we'd be going far better than what we are. The buzz around forward pressure is over hyped and is a buzz word for 2010 / 11.

The ability to apply forward pressure when you have no control over the game is largely taken away. When a side is playing with control, and delivering with consistency and efficienty inside 50, it becomes a far more simple process to get players forward to apply the defensive pressure.

As it is, we've got our players pushed so far up the ground in an effort to win the ball back, that when the ball finally does get back in, we are tumbling a ball in to a two on one where it's easily rebounded out.

All good sides have good forward pressure. Because they control the game first.

This is further on from my post.

We need to get more value from our entries in the forward fifty.

We have scored goals from 18% of forward 50 entries in the last 3 weeks. What that means is that if you go in 60 times a game - You are scoring a goal 11 times - leaving the opposition 49 rebounds from our forward fifty - Even if you are good defensively in the forward 50 - There are bound to be times when the opposition has a clear rebound - whereas if you score a goal at 30% - this equals 18 goals - and only allows the opposition 42 rebounds - which gives them less opportunity to effect a clear rebound.

And on the flipside - we are conceding goals from 33% of forward entries - which is far too high - which is partially a product of us being inefficient in our forward 50.

 

[yaco55]

The only two players with genuine speed that played on Sunday were Hill and Ballantyne. The rest of the 'speedy flankers' were simply working harder than us.

Fremantle are not a quick team - outside of Hill and Ballantyne - grant it that ballantyne was outstanding and Hill only average.

Mentioned before - allowing Fremantle to take 3 contested marks in the goal square early in the game - KILLED us - Not their flankers spreading quickly.

 

[ant555]

Hope that the selection panel have learnt not to go into games with too many players who have not played enough footy.
Welsh 6 weeks
Hurley 5 weeks
Watson 4 weeks.
Take into account the SUB factor and they stuffed up big time.

 

[yaco55]

Ant

Unusual for you to be so critical of the coaching panel ?

 

[ant555]

Ant

Unusual for you to be so critical of the coaching panel ?

Not usual but it was a shocking choice, i know Jobe and Hurls are best 22 but Subi requires fitness and Welsh, well shit how about seeing if he can play defensive forward with Bendigo.
Made even worse with Stanton being out and Lonergan missing.
As much as i do not rate him they should have played Prismall, at least he has been playing inside mid for Bendigo and is match fit which was proven on the same day !

They rolled the dice and came up with 2 & 3.......

 

[Yoda_]

Not sure why we "lack speed", do Geelong? (bar one or two), what about Collingwood? (bar the one or two exceptions). We do not have enough polish on the outside to finish of the good work done by our inside midfielders.

We are winning contested possessions, clearances, inside 50's, what is the true value of these inside 50's from the clearances? We are expecting second/third year players to be playing leading roles but are simply not developed (yet). The losses of Dempsey/Winderlich/Stanton over recent weeks has further highlights this fact.

Our forward line has been dysfunctional, the two/pronged ruckmen/KPF line has simply not worked. With Hurley returning, has opened up our options a little better, God we miss a Gumbleton/Carlisle type CHF, Monfries just isn't cutting it.

One thing I think we have all learnt, we all got a little carried away with early season form.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

As much as I hate it when the pies do it, I think we should look into the blocking the man on the mark. The lack of run out of defense has been extremely evident the last three weeks, causing our players to push further up the field and dragging forwards out of position. It is very effective as it draws a secondary opponent very close to the contest allowing a gap further up field for players to work into.