Legs feed the wolf

[Janus]

“Their main weapon is intimidation. They know they are going to win, and so do their opponents."

I think, just before the preseason starts, that it's time to actually explain what I see as Ken Hinkley's idea of football mastery is. Because I don't think I ever have.

NOTE: I'm both drunk AND high so this may move from topic to topic as I think about it. And it's going to be a long post. So read it, don't read it, I don't give a ****. Sorry/not sorry

I've said in the past that defence is the backbone of our game plan. And it is - without a solid defence, you cannot build anything. It is the rock, the foundation from which all offence is generated. If you don't defend, you don't play. That's why Eddy never got any more than three games. How can you pursue football mastery when an entire side of your game is deficient?

So we start with defence. Team defence. That means working as a unit to get the ball back from our opponent as quickly as possible. People misspeak when they talk about our system being a forward press. It isn't a forward press. It's a counter-press, which means a press that moves vertically and horizontally across the field in relation to where the ball is. This is why the roles of Travis Boak and Sam Gray are so vitally important. They don't simply stay forward, but shift up and down the field, pushing as far as into defence to keep our defensive structure. And as they move down the field, so do the forwards, until the entire field is compressed into defensive 50 - at which point the slingshot from 2014 comes into play.

But the best time to get the ball back is in the opposition defensive 50, because it increases pressure on the defence and makes them feel overwhelmed and prone to mistakes. When we have managed to get the ball back as the opposition try to get through defensive half back, we have managed to score pretty easily. Unfortunately, the better teams are conditioned to play out from the back and pick out weaknesses in defensive lines, and when you play someone who is a liability in the forward line in terms of defensive pressure (Trengove) it's kind of hard to lock the ball in and capitalise on mistakes. Do I like Jackson as a player? Absolutely. Am I glad he's gone so we aren't obligated to play him in a system he isn't suited for? ****ing oath.

Speaking of our forward line - I've noticed that a lot of people are talking about playing Dixon, Watts and Marshall in the same team. That would be a mistake. In time, I'm seeing Marshall becoming a hybrid of Dixon and Watts - a solitary key forward surrounded by mid-forwards that rotate from midfield to the forward line with occasional rests on the bench. Pretty much your lone athletic striker who is the highest paid player on the team. Yes, I rate him that highly, purely because I think he's got the football smarts, speed and agility to dominate the league. He just needs the power, but that will come with development...which is why I'd be keeping him back in the SANFL and giving him maybe 10 games this year. But I digress.

Dixon as the power forward with Watts the lead up forward is enough. People have banged on and on about the fact that our problems with delivery inside 50 have been due to lack of tall targets, but that's just not true. Just because our delivery has been shit hit and hope bombs inside 50 doesn't mean that with decent delivery and lowering the eyes things won't improve for the better.

Enter Jack Watts.

I called for Watts to be our lead-up forward back in July 2016, because I knew he had an elite kick, good defensive pressure and a pretty good tank on him. Plus he's just a cool guy, and he deserves a premiership after all the shit he's been through with coaches that didn't appreciate his talent. Is he the most contested player in the league? Nope. But we don't need him to be. In fact, we want him a kick away from the contest at all times. If Jack Watts is getting contested possessions, it means there is something wrong. Not because he shouldn't put his head over the ball when it's his turn, but because Watts getting a contested possession means that our team defence has broken down in some capacity.

Watts should be just ahead of the play. Think the striker who only drops as deep as the half way line. That's Watts. In fact, I wouldn't even call him a striker/forward. I'd call him an attacking midfielder. And yes, he is the most important recruit of the off season. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know a goddamned thing about modern football.

From that position, Watts can dictate the play and deliver as our forwards are streaming back into forward 50. Some fool on the Adelaide board once said once that I would kill for a player like Tom Lynch. Watts is better, because his pressure and kicking is elite. In fact...the Watts for 31 trade will go down in history the way that the Groom/McLeod trade did. And why? Because Goodwin is a ****stick who thinks that contested possession is everything. But like anything in statistics, it's all relative.

Motlop and Rockliff = Polec and Robbie Gray 2.0. Self explanatory, really.

Seriously, with the players we've recruited, if we don't win the flag Geelong 2007 style, something has got to be wrong. Adelaide were the most dominant team this year. ****ing Adelaide! Josh Jenkins, the guy who won't take a contested mark cause he's afraid he might break a nail. Taylor Walker, the worst captain in the entire league. These campaigners aren't even that good, and the entire league made them look like world beaters!

If you're going in 2018 thinking that our game style is going to reset back to some crap that your grandfather used to play, I hate to tell you this, but you'll be sorely disappointed. It's going to be exactly the same style we played in 2017 with Watts, Rockliff and Motlop added.

And that's going to be enough to rule the school. The only thing that could possibly hold us back is injuries and how quickly our side gels with the new recruits. Which is why playing Fremantle and Brisbane at home in the first three rounds is kind of a good thing, because it gives us an opportunity to iron out the kinks.

Football mastery. There was a big reason why we focused so heavily on running in the first few seasons under Burgess. Because the legs feed the wolf - if you can't run, you'll go hungry.

We've weeded out the people who didn't believe in the system. Now it's time to show those campaigners from Richmond how we do things downtown. We have the tools, we have the talent.

 

[HinkleysHeroes]

Tldr> we will rule the world.

 

[DaTBird187]

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

Ok i

“Their main weapon is intimidation. They know they are going to win, and so do their opponents."

I think, just before the preseason starts, that it's time to actually explain what I see as Ken Hinkley's idea of football mastery is. Because I don't think I ever have.

NOTE: I'm both drunk AND high so this may move from topic to topic as I think about it. And it's going to be a long post. So read it, don't read it, I don't give a ****. Sorry/not sorry

I've said in the past that defence is the backbone of our game plan. And it is - without a solid defence, you cannot build anything. It is the rock, the foundation from which all offence is generated. If you don't defend, you don't play. That's why Eddy never got any more than three games. How can you pursue football mastery when an entire side of your game is deficient?

So we start with defence. Team defence. That means working as a unit to get the ball back from our opponent as quickly as possible. People misspeak when they talk about our system being a forward press. It isn't a forward press. It's a counter-press, which means a press that moves vertically and horizontally across the field in relation to where the ball is. This is why the roles of Travis Boak and Sam Gray are so vitally important. They don't simply stay forward, but shift up and down the field, pushing as far as into defence to keep our defensive structure. And as they move down the field, so do the forwards, until the entire field is compressed into defensive 50 - at which point the slingshot from 2014 comes into play.

But the best time to get the ball back is in the opposition defensive 50, because it increases pressure on the defence and makes them feel overwhelmed and prone to mistakes. When we have managed to get the ball back as the opposition try to get through defensive half back, we have managed to score pretty easily. Unfortunately, the better teams are conditioned to play out from the back and pick out weaknesses in defensive lines, and when you play someone who is a liability in the forward line in terms of defensive pressure (Trengove) it's kind of hard to lock the ball in and capitalise on mistakes. Do I like Jackson as a player? Absolutely. Am I glad he's gone so we aren't obligated to play him in a system he isn't suited for? ******* oath.

Speaking of our forward line - I've noticed that a lot of people are talking about playing Dixon, Watts and Marshall in the same team. That would be a mistake. In time, I'm seeing Marshall becoming a hybrid of Dixon and Watts - a solitary key forward surrounded by mid-forwards that rotate from midfield to the forward line with occasional rests on the bench. Pretty much your lone athletic striker who is the highest paid player on the team. Yes, I rate him that highly, purely because I think he's got the football smarts, speed and agility to dominate the league. He just needs the power, but that will come with development...which is why I'd be keeping him back in the SANFL and giving him maybe 10 games this year. But I digress.

Dixon as the power forward with Watts the lead up forward is enough. People have banged on and on about the fact that our problems with delivery inside 50 have been due to lack of tall targets, but that's just not true. Just because our delivery has been shit hit and hope bombs inside 50 doesn't mean that with decent delivery and lowering the eyes things won't improve for the better.

Enter Jack Watts.

I called for Watts to be our lead-up forward back in July 2016, because I knew he had an elite kick, good defensive pressure and a pretty good tank on him. Plus he's just a cool guy, and he deserves a premiership after all the shit he's been through with coaches that didn't appreciate his talent. Is he the most contested player in the league? Nope. But we don't need him to be. In fact, we want him a kick away from the contest at all times. If Jack Watts is getting contested possessions, it means there is something wrong. Not because he shouldn't put his head over the ball when it's his turn, but because Watts getting a contested possession means that our team defence has broken down in some capacity.

Watts should be just ahead of the play. Think the striker who only drops as deep as the half way line. That's Watts. In fact, I wouldn't even call him a striker/forward. I'd call him an attacking midfielder. And yes, he is the most important recruit of the off season. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know a goddamned thing about modern football.

From that position, Watts can dictate the play and deliver as our forwards are streaming back into forward 50. Some fool on the Adelaide board once said once that I would kill for a player like Tom Lynch. Watts is better, because his pressure and kicking is elite. In fact...the Watts for 31 trade will go down in history the way that the Groom/McLeod trade did. And why? Because Goodwin is a ****stick who thinks that contested possession is everything. But like anything in statistics, it's all relative.

Motlop and Rockliff = Polec and Robbie Gray 2.0. Self explanatory, really.

Seriously, with the players we've recruited, if we don't win the flag Geelong 2007 style, something has got to be wrong. Adelaide were the most dominant team this year. ******* Adelaide! Josh Jenkins, the guy who won't take a contested mark cause he's afraid he might break a nail. Taylor Walker, the worst captain in the entire league. These campaigners aren't even that good, and the entire league made them look like world beaters!

If you're going in 2018 thinking that our game style is going to reset back to some crap that your grandfather used to play, I hate to tell you this, but you'll be sorely disappointed. It's going to be exactly the same style we played in 2017 with Watts, Rockliff and Motlop added.

And that's going to be enough to rule the school. The only thing that could possibly hold us back is injuries and how quickly our side gels with the new recruits. Which is why playing Fremantle and Brisbane at home in the first three rounds is kind of a good thing, because it gives us an opportunity to iron out the kinks.

Football mastery. There was a big reason why we focused so heavily on running in the first few seasons under Burgess. Because the legs feed the wolf - if you can't run, you'll go hungry.

We've weeded out the people who didn't believe in the system. Now it's time to show those campaigners from Richmond how we do things downtown. We have the tools, we have the talent.

ok I’ve read your post quite carefully but you’ve failed to mention why our forward entries were in the pockets ? Why against the better teams were we smashed in clearances ? Our slingshot was non existent.? To be quite honest in 2017 I didn’t really know what our game plan was. I think I’m not alone. We had a lean year injury wise but yet our selections were fukn weird at best. You really think Eddy was given a decent crack ? I think not and again I’m not alone on this one.In fact it’s up there in the Bermuda Triangle phenomenon. I still think our major problem lies in the coaches box. I’m happy to be proven wrong on this & hope our new recruits help Hinkley’s gameplan or Bassett/Voss etc....

 

[GremioPower]

Tldr> we will rule the world.

Janus is both Brain and Pinky!

 

[TeeKray]

This is all nice in theory but in reality we need to get better at the fundamentals of the game - non stop work rate around stoppages, field kicking, set shot goal kicking. Until we fix those issues, no type of master tactics are ever going to lead us to the promised land.

 

[GremioPower]

Ok i

ok I’ve read your post quite carefully but you’ve failed to mention why our forward entries were in the pockets ? Why against the better teams were we smashed in clearances ? Our slingshot was non existent.? To be quite honest in 2017 I didn’t really know what our game plan was. I think I’m not alone. We had a lean year injury wise but yet our selections were fukn weird at best. You really think Eddy was given a decent crack ? I think not and again I’m not alone on this one.In fact it’s up there in the Bermuda Triangle phenomenon. I still think our major problem lies in the coaches box. I’m happy to be proven wrong on this & hope our new recruits help Hinkley’s gameplan or Bassett/Voss etc....

My uneducated guesses:

- pocket: where open spaces were;
Teams would concentrate their defense in the corridor, giving us the pockets. We took them, but our low accuracy from there didn't force them to change strategy.

- clearances: no idea;

- slingshot: lack of opportunity;
We pressure up, and most teams would play down the field to shut spaces deep in the corridor. We simply couldn't counter-attack much.

- Eddy: really good in an area we are bad, but how bad he was where we were good?
The trade-off is the question here. There is a point one either trusts who is working close with the players or doesn't.

 

[dirty2]

Slingshot..... pittard didn't have the greatest of years.... didn't help.

 

[GremioPower]

On "counter-pressure," a soccer equivalent could be the early 90's AC Milan. The team would always have its 10 field players concentrated in 3/5 of the pitch (either top, middle, or bottom), depending on where the ball was.

On Footy terms, it would be like transitioning between:

[D50: 1-2-3-4-5 :F50]
8-5-5-0-0 (ball on defense), to
0-5-8-5-0 (ball on center), to
0-0-5-5-8 (ball on offense).

Team would have 5 lines:
5 defenders (move between 1-2-3)
3 def/mid (1-2-3-4)
2 midfielders (2-3-4)
3 mid/att (2-3-4-5)
5 atackers (3-4-5)

The pressure happens somewhat naturally because the whole team is always near the ball.

---

Janus describes Watts as a classic soccer number-10 — who seems to play wearing suit and tie, and make football look easy and simple.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Marshall can play and be effective alongside Dixon and Watts for 2 reasons:

1) He's mobile. He can run. Playing him doesn't hurt our mobility.

2) If your tall players are mobile, they are naturally better at team defence than a small because they fill a bigger hole. Looking up the field as an opposition player and seeing Todd Marshall where you want to kick the ball is much more likely to generate a mistake than seeing Jake Neade.

Mobile bigs are the modern football prototype. They clog up space better and they intercept mark better.

 

[Jonts]

 

[just_kick_it]

My uneducated guesses:

- pocket: where open spaces were;
Teams would concentrate their defense in the corridor, giving us the pockets. We took them, but our low accuracy from there didn't force them to change strategy.

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the reason we kick to the pockets is so if there isn't a mark and a shot at goal chances are the ball will go out and we can set up for a throw in and lock the ball in the forward 50 for a second chance.

 

[GremioPower]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the reason we kick to the pockets is so if there isn't a mark and a shot at goal chances are the ball will go out and we can set up for a throw in and lock the ball in the forward 50 for a second chance.

It adds to what I've said. If WE fail to mark, ball goes out of bound. The chances of the opposition getting the ball would be small.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Not bad for pissed n stoned.

 

[*PAF]

We need a Janus sub board.

 

[Grave Danger]

I thought this fred was going to be about us plundering Norwoods to fill our rookie list.

 

[Janus]

Ok i

ok I’ve read your post quite carefully but you’ve failed to mention why our forward entries were in the pockets ? Why against the better teams were we smashed in clearances ? Our slingshot was non existent.? To be quite honest in 2017 I didn’t really know what our game plan was. I think I’m not alone. We had a lean year injury wise but yet our selections were fukn weird at best. You really think Eddy was given a decent crack ? I think not and again I’m not alone on this one.In fact it’s up there in the Bermuda Triangle phenomenon. I still think our major problem lies in the coaches box. I’m happy to be proven wrong on this & hope our new recruits help Hinkley’s gameplan or Bassett/Voss etc....

Legs feed the wolf Pt2 - Aim for the bushes pockets

"You cannot be a team of uncommon men. Because uncommon men go nowhere."

Listen to this poster, they know what's up:

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the reason we kick to the pockets is so if there isn't a mark and a shot at goal chances are the ball will go out and we can set up for a throw in and lock the ball in the forward 50 for a second chance.

It's also because it's easier to defend a ball that is pressed up against the boundary line because the boundary becomes another defensive line due to the deliberate rule. I can promise you that we wouldn't be targeting the pockets nearly as much if the rules went back to the old 'defenders can just hit the ball out of bounds with impunity' rule. It creates pressure kicks out of defence that could easily end up out of bounds on the full and enables our defence to rest and reset.

Our slingshot was non existent because our players were too scared to leave their defensive positions due to not having belief that the players up forward would be able to assist in locking the ball in once we got it forward, or have the speed to track back and help with defence. Ken said when Marshall played his second game that he had 'AFL speed' which when combined with his defensive pressure made him far more dangerous than either Eddy or Trengove in our system.

Marshall can play and be effective alongside Dixon and Watts for 2 reasons:

1) He's mobile. He can run. Playing him doesn't hurt our mobility.

2) If your tall players are mobile, they are naturally better at team defence than a small because they fill a bigger hole. Looking up the field as an opposition player and seeing Todd Marshall where you want to kick the ball is much more likely to generate a mistake than seeing Jake Neade.

Mobile bigs are the modern football prototype. They clog up space better and they intercept mark better.

He can, but I reckon he's going to be competing against Lindsay Thomas for that spot in the forward line, and I think he's still developing. That's why I'd be playing him against weaker opponents who are prone to defensive lapses.

I've said it before - no team actually plays three stay at home talls, and the ones that play two of them have a tendency to suffer in the defensive pressure side of the game. We're going to have Dixon, Ryder, Watts, Westhoff, Jonas and either Howard or Hombsch on the field at any given time. For mine, that's enough height. The only way I'd be playing Marshall from R1 and keeping him in the team is if his preseason form was so irresistible that his offensive fire power was greater than what Thomas brought to the table in a defensive capacity. And I just think that if we want to encourage our players to lower the eyes, I wouldn't be playing an extra tall because it encourages bad habits.

 

[GremioPower]

I thought this fred was going to be about us plundering Norwoods to fill our rookie list.

Me too... :-D

 

[Smithy7]

This is all nice in theory but in reality we need to get better at the fundamentals of the game - non stop work rate around stoppages, field kicking, set shot goal kicking. Until we fix those issues, no type of master tactics are ever going to lead us to the promised land.

Could not agree more ..
I have been watching our replays. One example I noticed about moving the ball on was DBJ.
He took a mark in the back lines near the 50m arc went back and went to sleep. A Port player was 20 - 25m ahead of him making perfect position to receive the pass. When DBJ woke up the player was covered. So down the line he went and it was marked by an opposition player.
Even watching the replays I could throw something at the screen at some of the what the ... moments lol
At least with the replays you can go back and look at the stuff ups.

 

[Magus]

We don't have to be the best football team ever, just more consistent. Missing out on top 4 in 2014 and 2017 was a failure. Missing finals in 2015 and 2016 was diabolical.

And you're right, Adelaide's team is not that good. Most of us here agree about that. Look at their midfield - M. Crouch, Sloane and a bunch of nobodies, but they are really well coached and believe in the system. It's concerning that we have so much talent on the list and still lose games by 70-80 points. I want answers as to what happened in those games, not "oh we just didn't turn up, whoops"

Having a look at our 22, we should be very, very hard to beat. Over to you Ken.

 

[Janus]

Could not agree more ..
I have been watching our replays. One example I noticed about moving the ball on was DBJ.
He took a mark in the back lines near the 50m arc went back and went to sleep. A Port player was 20 - 25m ahead of him making perfect position to receive the pass. When DBJ woke up the player was covered. So down the line he went and it was marked by an opposition player.
Even watching the replays I could throw something at the screen at some of the what the ... moments lol
At least with the replays you can go back and look at the stuff ups.

Byrne-Jones is a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.

In the Essendon debacle, everyone was all 'hey, Darcy had a good game because his man didn't kick any goals!'

Yeah, and he got ZERO votes for it in the best and fairest. He didn't have a good game. He had a game where he sold his teammates down the river because he was too concerned about doing his job instead of helping the team do it's job.

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

My uneducated guesses:

- pocket: where open spaces were;
Teams would concentrate their defense in the corridor, giving us the pockets. We took them, but our low accuracy from there didn't force them to change strategy.

- clearances: no idea;

- slingshot: lack of opportunity;
We pressure up, and most teams would play down the field to shut spaces deep in the corridor. We simply couldn't counter-attack much.

- Eddy: really good in an area we are bad, but how bad he was where we were good?
The trade-off is the question here. There is a point one either trusts who is working close with the players or doesn't.

Was Eddy really given a decent crack ? No way. There were plenty of rotating gold passes but he was simply overlooked. Ken just didn’t like him pure & simple.

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

Byrne-Jones is a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.

In the Essendon debacle, everyone was all 'hey, Darcy had a good game because his man didn't kick any goals!'

Yeah, and he got ZERO votes for it in the best and fairest. He didn't have a good game. He had a game where he sold his teammates down the river because he was too concerned about doing his job instead of helping the team do it's job.

How about Hartletts efforts that day ? Nothing short of disgraceful.

 

[Janus]

How about Hartletts efforts that day ? Nothing short of disgraceful.

Absolutely.

Round 12 v Essendon

13. Jonas, 10. Westhoff, 5. Broadbent, Clurey, Powell-Pepper, Trengove, 3. Ryder, Polec, R. Gray

Three defenders did their job that match - Jonas, Broadbent and Clurey.

Hartlett, Hombsch, Byrne-Jones, Pittard and Toumpas were deplorable.

 

[Peck]

I think we are contenders, but IMO the competition is going to be much more even than you state here.

I do think we have built our list for our gameplan extremely well, and are following a clear strategy with our midfield, forward and defence.

Our key strategy seems to be to win the contested ball, then defend and counter as high up the ground as possible. Grinding our opponent down at the contest, and generating huge numbers of inside 50s while limiting the opposition’s attack because they have to defend stoppage, then break our zone multiple times to reach our defensive 50.

We concede height in defence but our mobility means our defenders can push up the ground quickly potentially helping attack or gain an advantage at stoppage, but also they can create a zone behind the ball so if we turn the ball over we are ready to defend as fast as possible and potentially counter the turnover instantly. The flipside is that when we are forced to defend repeat entries, or centre clearances our defence can get exposed by good talls.

Our midfield concedes speed for stronger contested ability. We gain an advantage at stoppages, but when the opponent wins the ball we can be left flat footed. We also rotate a lot of midfielders through the forward line hoping to reduce fatigue. The lack of speed in the middle doesn’t matter most of the time as the ball should be moving away from the area by foot most of the time, meaning our defensive zone isn’t weakened as our defenders are set up already where the ball wants to move. However we can get destroyed by quick handballing, particularly if there are missed tackles.

Finally our forward line is built around pressuring the man, getting back quickly, and abusing the advantages that we have one on one due to Dixon/Gray/Rockliff etc. When the ball is in defence our players aim to outwork their defenders to aid at stoppages, and then push forward quickly when we have the ball to create options. When the ball is not in defensive 50 our players try to prevent the opposition from over handballing through defensive pressure, in order to create even more turnovers.

This overall means we can be exposed by fast handballing, strong tall forwards, and stronger midfields and are weakest in our defensive 50 and at centre bounces, we limit the damage by playing more players in defence, and playing midfielders who can tackle. However when the ball is in open play, or forward of centre our game plan shines because our zone moves with the ball, creating multiple opportunities for turnover and slowing ball movement, allowing our forwards to pressure the ball carrier and increase our chance of turnover even further.

Where we have seen this break down is when our midfield gets rekt, and when our goal kicking or ball movement sucks. It doesn’t matter how many turnovers you create if you give the ball right back, or waste opportunities. Rockliff addresses the first issue through contested ability and tackling, while also adding another option up forward, potentially aiding the second issue. Watts and Motlop both address the second issue through better ball use, and Watts’ ability to provide another option forward of the ball.

Perhaps Watts is the highest impact recruit, but it’s of little importance. We’ve strengthened ourselves hugely with all three recruits and our strategy will wreck most teams. How we handle teams like Essendon, Adelaide and Melbourne will be interesting, but otherwise I fully expect us to keep trashing teams that don’t dominate us in the middle.

We aren’t guaranteed anything, but we are giving ourselves a bloody good chance.