Legs feed the wolf

[GremioPower]

Could not agree more ..
I have been watching our replays. One example I noticed about moving the ball on was DBJ.
He took a mark in the back lines near the 50m arc went back and went to sleep. A Port player was 20 - 25m ahead of him making perfect position to receive the pass. When DBJ woke up the player was covered. So down the line he went and it was marked by an opposition player.
Even watching the replays I could throw something at the screen at some of the what the ... moments lol
At least with the replays you can go back and look at the stuff ups.

This was a constant throughout the season. There were times when players or the team would simply enter into "stand-by" mode and become completely oblivious to the game.

 

[Magpiespower]

Darth Janus:

 

[Janus]

I think we are contenders, but IMO the competition is going to be much more even than you state here.

I do think we have built our list for our gameplan extremely well, and are following a clear strategy with our midfield, forward and defence.

Our key strategy seems to be to win the contested ball, then defend and counter as high up the ground as possible. Grinding our opponent down at the contest, and generating huge numbers of inside 50s while limiting the opposition’s attack because they have to defend stoppage, then break our zone multiple times to reach our defensive 50.

We concede height in defence but our mobility means our defenders can push up the ground quickly potentially helping attack or gain an advantage at stoppage, but also they can create a zone behind the ball so if we turn the ball over we are ready to defend as fast as possible and potentially counter the turnover instantly. The flipside is that when we are forced to defend repeat entries, or centre clearances our defence can get exposed by good talls.

Our midfield concedes speed for stronger contested ability. We gain an advantage at stoppages, but when the opponent wins the ball we can be left flat footed. We also rotate a lot of midfielders through the forward line hoping to reduce fatigue. The lack of speed in the middle doesn’t matter most of the time as the ball should be moving away from the area by foot most of the time, meaning our defensive zone isn’t weakened as our defenders are set up already where the ball wants to move. However we can get destroyed by quick handballing, particularly if there are missed tackles.

Finally our forward line is built around pressuring the man, getting back quickly, and abusing the advantages that we have one on one due to Dixon/Gray/Rockliff etc. When the ball is in defence our players aim to outwork their defenders to aid at stoppages, and then push forward quickly when we have the ball to create options. When the ball is not in defensive 50 our players try to prevent the opposition from over handballing through defensive pressure, in order to create even more turnovers.

This overall means we can be exposed by fast handballing, strong tall forwards, and stronger midfields and are weakest in our defensive 50 and at centre bounces, we limit the damage by playing more players in defence, and playing midfielders who can tackle. However when the ball is in open play, or forward of centre our game plan shines because our zone moves with the ball, creating multiple opportunities for turnover and slowing ball movement, allowing our forwards to pressure the ball carrier and increase our chance of turnover even further.

Where we have seen this break down is when our midfield gets rekt, and when our goal kicking or ball movement sucks. It doesn’t matter how many turnovers you create if you give the ball right back, or waste opportunities. Rockliff addresses the first issue through contested ability and tackling, while also adding another option up forward, potentially aiding the second issue. Watts and Motlop both address the second issue through better ball use, and Watts’ ability to provide another option forward of the ball.

Perhaps Watts is the highest impact recruit, but it’s of little importance. We’ve strengthened ourselves hugely with all three recruits and our strategy will wreck most teams. How we handle teams like Essendon, Adelaide and Melbourne will be interesting, but otherwise I fully expect us to keep trashing teams that don’t dominate us in the middle.

We aren’t guaranteed anything, but we are giving ourselves a bloody good chance.

Contested ball around stoppages is a priority for any team. We got caught out by our unwillingness to get to the next contest in the midfield, which comes from having to play Powell Pepper and Wines who don't have the tank to stay on the field and have a significant impact. It's why getting Rockliff was important because he allows Wines and Powell-Pepper to rotate through the forward line and bench and we don't lose anything with regards to our contested work.

We played Ah Chee for a few games but his contested work wasn't suited to what we were trying to achieve. Rockliff will be. As for Essendon, Adelaide and Melbourne - they play the antithesis of our game style.

 

[Duck Farmer]

I thought this fred was going to be about us plundering Norwoods to fill our rookie list.

I thought it was going to be TRTT Part 6.

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

Absolutely.

Round 12 v Essendon

13. Jonas, 10. Westhoff, 5. Broadbent, Clurey, Powell-Pepper, Trengove, 3. Ryder, Polec, R. Gray

Three defenders did their job that match - Jonas, Broadbent and Clurey.

Hartlett, Hombsch, Byrne-Jones, Pittard and Toumpas were deplorable.

Yeah those figures don’t flatter. I consider us pretty quick but Essendon made us look stationary throughout that game.

 

[Grave Danger]

I thought it was going to be TRTT Part 6.

Given that Part 1 ran for 3544 pages we should probably be on to Part 15 by now.

 

[jac147]

Good thought provoking post. However, i never ever want to see us ever again kick the ball forward when the sole marking option is Jakey Neade. How many times have we seen this option used. Fair enough Jakey should be there but never trying to contest a mark with a bloke who is about 12 inches taller than him. Obviously he should be sharking the packs for spilled marks, using his skills to collect the ball, his pace to line up the goals and his generally accurate kick to seal the sausage roll!
Roll on 2018.

 

[Duck Farmer]

Good thought provoking post. However, i never ever want to see us ever again kick the ball forward when the sole marking option is Jakey Neade. How many times have we seen this option used. Fair enough Jakey should be there but never trying to contest a mark with a bloke who is about 12 inches taller than him. Obviously he should be sharking the packs for spilled marks, using his skills to collect the ball, his pace to line up the goals and his generally accurate kick to seal the sausage roll!
Roll on 2018.

I recall a game this year where they put up a graphic sometime in the 3Q of our main targets for F50 entries.

Sam Gray was leading by a reasonable margin.

Yes, Dixon was playing.

I know this because he was leading the Inside 50s stat.

If Jack Watts does nothing else but fix this we will win the next 5 premierships.

 

[1954]

Byrne-Jones is a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.

In the Essendon debacle, everyone was all 'hey, Darcy had a good game because his man didn't kick any goals!'

Yeah, and he got ZERO votes for it in the best and fairest. He didn't have a good game. He had a game where he sold his teammates down the river because he was too concerned about doing his job instead of helping the team do it's job.

One of my enduring memories of the bummer debacle was when Hombsch had front position in their goal square early in the game but literally struggled to lift his arms above his head and was comfortably outmarked.
I remember thinking at the time that injury had caught up with him and he was probably cooked.

 

[manureid]

Not even going to attempt to read all that. At the end of the day, just football better you campaigners.

 

[bomberclifford]

In touch with the ground
I'm on the hunt I'm after you
Scent and a sound
I'm lost and I'm found
And I'm hungry like the wolf

 

[TeeKray]

I don't disagree with much of the Janus OP, I just think we have already been playing that style of football very effectively but just not finishing our work off well enough. And while Rockwattlop will make a difference, I'm not entirely convinced that they are some kind of magic bullet.

14-8 after the H&A season then out first week of finals. We're close but need to improve. We're probably going to need 17-5 for a top 2 finish. Our gameplan is sound but we need to finish off our work better with kicking inside 50 and set shot conversion, especially at key moments in close games.

 

[Magus]

My problem with Janus' perspective on things is pretty simple. He always blames the players and never Ken. I believe he's found his conclusion and worked his way backwards to come up with theories to suit the narrative.

A good coach creates a system that is adaptable to the tools he has at his disposal. He gets the very best out of his players. He has a role for everybody and plays them to their strengths.

The fact that we've been through 3 or so gameplans in Ken's tenure says to me that he has a bit to learn and is still learning. The fact that we've had several games over his tenure that we should have won, yet turned to water, says to me that he was either unable to motivate the players or that the instructions weren't clear enough.

However the biggest gripe that most people had on here was with the selections:

We've weeded out the people who didn't believe in the system

Why do we have to weed out players at the end of the year instead of dropping them? Why did we play Impey for 20+ games and Trengove for 20? You may say Marshall wasn't ready. Why didn't we pick Frampton?

The entire board said right from the preseason that Trengove was not a forward. Blind Freddy could have seen that Impey was not up to it before he was picked for that final and we arguably played a man down with another predictable 12 touch game with a dropped mark in the F50. That was a diabolical amateur **** up in selection.

Oh, but the players let Ken down? That's his fault for picking them.

I hate this idea that we have to sit back at the end of the year and say "well those guys weren't up to it, back to the drawing board" instead of actually fixing it during the year.

You've pointed out that the last couple of premiership teams weren't that good, and I tend to agree, but that says a bit about their system that they pulled it off. We're relying on individual brilliance and bringing in players that make us look exceptional on paper.

Realistically I don't think there's a coach in the comp that couldn't coach Ryder, Gray, Wines, Wingard, Polec + Rockliff, Motlop, Watts to top 4.

I'm just hoping that we have the system in place to make it all come together rather than relying on the best possible squad under the luckiest of circumstances (no injuries) to make it happen.

 

[GremioPower]

I don't think the problem was belief, but that some players couldn't fit in — for all the different reasons.

In 2017, Port was its worst enemy, and Hinkley was part of the problem. But I don't think we are transfering responsibilities. We have shown awereness of our shortcomings and a willingness to deal with them.

We have brought in stats analysts, new coaches, and new players. We don't want to repeat the same mistakes. We want to be ready to take the best of our players and to face everything our opponents throw at us.

We are both desappointed and hungry. Now, it is a matter of translating this right spirit into improvement (and into premierships). If we lose, at least, it cannot be to ourselves again.

After all, "... there can be honour in defeat, but ... can only come after human endeavour on the playing field is completely exhausted."

 

[elpirate]

You only have to watch 1 SANFL game in the finals to see why Brett Eddy was not picked.

There are many minor round games that also demonstrate this.

Ken tried him early to see if he could be an anomaly to the normal requirements as he is great at kicking goals in the SANFL but he basically confirmed the thoughts of the coaching staff in those games with his performance and positioning and was subsequently sent to the SANFL to improve his game.

He couldn't do it.

SANFL is his level, he can't take the next step, he's too glory goal focused instead of team glory focused.

He cant defend or run.

No club will pick him up in the drafts if he even nominated for it.

 

[Janus]

I don't disagree with much of the Janus OP, I just think we have already been playing that style of football very effectively but just not finishing our work off well enough. And while Rockwattlop will make a difference, I'm not entirely convinced that they are some kind of magic bullet.

14-8 after the H&A season then out first week of finals. We're close but need to improve. We're probably going to need 17-5 for a top 2 finish. Our gameplan is sound but we need to finish off our work better with kicking inside 50 and set shot conversion, especially at key moments in close games.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uBgGaGUnvA0

“Just one more set shot conversion a week...and you’re at the MCG on Grand Final day.”

My problem with Janus' perspective on things is pretty simple. He always blames the players and never Ken. I believe he's found his conclusion and worked his way backwards to come up with theories to suit the narrative.

A good coach creates a system that is adaptable to the tools he has at his disposal. He gets the very best out of his players. He has a role for everybody and plays them to their strengths.

The fact that we've been through 3 or so gameplans in Ken's tenure says to me that he has a bit to learn and is still learning. The fact that we've had several games over his tenure that we should have won, yet turned to water, says to me that he was either unable to motivate the players or that the instructions weren't clear enough.

However the biggest gripe that most people had on here was with the selections:



Why do we have to weed out players at the end of the year instead of dropping them? Why did we play Impey for 20+ games and Trengove for 20? You may say Marshall wasn't ready. Why didn't we pick Frampton?

The entire board said right from the preseason that Trengove was not a forward. Blind Freddy could have seen that Impey was not up to it before he was picked for that final and we arguably played a man down with another predictable 12 touch game with a dropped mark in the F50. That was a diabolical amateur **** up in selection.

Oh, but the players let Ken down? That's his fault for picking them.

I hate this idea that we have to sit back at the end of the year and say "well those guys weren't up to it, back to the drawing board" instead of actually fixing it during the year.

You've pointed out that the last couple of premiership teams weren't that good, and I tend to agree, but that says a bit about their system that they pulled it off. We're relying on individual brilliance and bringing in players that make us look exceptional on paper.

Realistically I don't think there's a coach in the comp that couldn't coach Ryder, Gray, Wines, Wingard, Polec + Rockliff, Motlop, Watts to top 4.

I'm just hoping that we have the system in place to make it all come together rather than relying on the best possible squad under the luckiest of circumstances (no injuries) to make it happen.

That’s all well and good. Tell me who you were going to bring in?

We didn’t change our structure because for the most part it was actually working. Ken dismissed the Essendon game as just a bad day, and that was fair enough. It was when we got smashed by Adelaide that it was evident that it was actually a choice by the players to ignore instruction. Unfortunately, we couldn’t select Frampton because he simply wasn’t ready and Marshall had well documented personal issues.

There’s a reason why we’ve targeted McKenzie, Trengove and Thomas.

 

[VineValerian]

Byrne-Jones is a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.

In the Essendon debacle, everyone was all 'hey, Darcy had a good game because his man didn't kick any goals!'

Yeah, and he got ZERO votes for it in the best and fairest. He didn't have a good game. He had a game where he sold his teammates down the river because he was too concerned about doing his job instead of helping the team do it's job.

True enough.
It also begs the question though............. why did we keep picking him?
Try Impey - or someone else who WILL run off his man and implement Ken's game plan.

 

[Peck]

I recall a game this year where they put up a graphic sometime in the 3Q of our main targets for F50 entries.

Sam Gray was leading by a reasonable margin.

Yes, Dixon was playing.

I know this because he was leading the Inside 50s stat.

If Jack Watts does nothing else but fix this we will win the next 5 premierships.

That’s because Sam Gray is getting space. That is a good thing.

Our issue with Sam was him not converting shots.

Watts will help in the situation where it’s bombed forward without regard, and will improve forward entries when we have possession either through creating another option or using his elite disposal.

 

[Janus]

True enough.
It also begs the question though............. why did we keep picking him?
Try Impey - or someone else who WILL run off his man and implement Ken's game plan.

Because Darcy has the tools and the talent.

It’s not about assigning blame. It’s about encouraging them to be better.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uBgGaGUnvA0

“Just one more set shot conversion a week...and you’re at the MCG on Grand Final day.”.

Haha when I watched Crash Davis tell Meat erh Nuke Laloosh that in Toronto nearly 30 years ago, little did I know he was talking about #marginalgains. But 5 years ago I did say it was one of the great moments in cinema in that thread on the BDC board. Best sports movie I have ever seen, better than the first Rocky.

 

[Smithy7]

Byrne-Jones is a classic example of exactly what I'm talking about.
In the Essendon debacle, everyone was all 'hey, Darcy had a good game because his man didn't kick any goals!'
Yeah, and he got ZERO votes for it in the best and fairest. He didn't have a good game. He had a game where he sold his teammates down the river because he was too concerned about doing his job instead of helping the team do it's job.

Another thing he does .. several times, kicked into the man an the mark.

Watching the replays, I was not taking much notice before, but is Karl Amon a little tiger. He has done some great tackles and blocks in his games, to the teams advantage.

 

[Magus]

Ken dismissed the Essendon game as just a bad day, and that was fair enough.

I don't actually think it was fair enough. Putting it down to just being a bad day is exactly the reason that the Showdown was allowed to happen. We did nothing to nail down what our issues were and they reared their head again later in the year at a time when we should have been a settled unit. We subsequently went into finals unprepared and unsettled and paid the price.

Unfortunately, we couldn’t select Frampton because he simply wasn’t ready and Marshall had well documented personal issues.

I don't buy this either. It was said that Frampton would've played late in the year if he hadn't injured his shoulder. This means he was ahead of Marshall in selection and that's more than fair enough. Have a look at both of them and tell me that Frampton wasn't ready but Marshall is. Frampton should've played games in the forward line well, well before Trengove was finally dropped.

 

[Pedro59]

I don't disagree with much of the Janus OP, I just think we have already been playing that style of football very effectively but just not finishing our work off well enough. And while Rockwattlop will make a difference, I'm not entirely convinced that they are some kind of magic bullet.

14-8 after the H&A season then out first week of finals. We're close but need to improve. We're probably going to need 17-5 for a top 2 finish. Our gameplan is sound but we need to finish off our work better with kicking inside 50 and set shot conversion, especially at key moments in close games.

Agree with the finishing off

Anything truly is practicable if done correctly with mega repetitions

Public speaking for the unconfident is mastered by toastmasters, psychocybernetics ( training the subconscious mind) and the like or literally doing the ( best mans speech or whatever) 1,000 times to a practice family audience...for example

Surely match simulating pressure ( jeering screaming noises in earphones etc) whilst thinking mentally de-pressurising aphorisms , combined with rifle target shooting breathing steadying techniques combined with many reps could up our set shot accuracy
( I'm just making this up but aren't there experts on sports psychology available ....but not the one we used on Butch please)
What would have been our home and away and finals tally with a 20 % improvement on this. ?

 

[Peck]

Not quite sure what ‘Broges’ is on about.

We look like pillaging next years draft, at the cost of this years. The DFAs and rookies we pick up are simply to fill the list until said draft.

Could be wrong, maybe Trengove, Mackenzie and friends will be on 5 year contracts?

 

[Us against the rest]

Not quite sure what ‘Broges’ is on about.

We look like pillaging next years draft, at the cost of this years. The DFAs and rookies we pick up are simply to fill the list until said draft.

Could be wrong, maybe Trengove, Mackenzie and friends will be on 5 year contracts?

I moved my post to the correct thread.