Leon Cameron

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

They are everywhere the bastards

Well you are apparently.

 

[DapperJong]

Well you are apparently.

What? I'm agreeing with you.....

 

[PieLebo87]

Rubbish. Except for the Bulldogs it has been near impossible to win the flag unless you finish in the top 4. Making the finals does not make you a flag contender.

Not winning a flag doesn't make you a bad coach or ready for sacking, but if you've got a talented side each year and you're not getting the results expected then of course there should be some scrutiny.

AFL clubs are not charities. These coaches are being paid very well to achieve tough results. And the reality is there would be a number of coaches in the AFL that are no good. It just isn't made obvious unless they're achieving really poor results win wise. The media doesn't analyse coaching performances in much depth at all.

I wouldn't say Cameron should be sacked right now but I think there should be some serious thought given to changing things up if they get a clear run at it next season and don't make the grand final. Their list is far too talented to not at least get in a grand final. Winning is much tougher, but plenty of teams have managed to make it to a grand final. There aren't exactly a stack of talented teams on top of the ladder right now. GWS even with a few injuries should be more than good enough to win a prelim.

As you mentioned, clubs aren’t charities, and when considering GWS and Cameron, who would be a better option to take this group to a premiership?

As a business, do you believe it’s viable for Cameron to be sacked and they have to start fresh, as a group, developing a new game plan under a new coach, who’ll want to make his own changes too? How long would that take/set them back? What’re the guarantees it’ll translate to premierships?

You said it, winning GFs are tough, winning finals in general is bloody tough, and you’ve got to be friggen good to do it.

If GWS struggle to make the 8 next year, by all means, go crazy, but until Cameron has stopped getting them into premiership positions, he ain’t going anywhere.

 

[TedDougChris]

As you mentioned, clubs aren’t charities, and when considering GWS and Cameron, who would be a better option to take this group to a premiership?

As a business, do you believe it’s viable for Cameron to be sacked and they have to start fresh, as a group, developing a new game plan under a new coach, who’ll want to make his own changes too? How long would that take/set them back? What’re the guarantees it’ll translate to premierships?

You said it, winning GFs are tough, winning finals in general is bloody tough, and you’ve got to be friggen good to do it.

If GWS struggle to make the 8 next year, by all means, go crazy, but until Cameron has stopped getting them into premiership positions, he ain’t going anywhere.

The counter argument is/includes the fact that GWS have a once in a lifetime list of talent, which Cameron has shown little sign of developing into a premiership winning side. So how many chances do you give him to make the necessary tweaks before that list is no longer there and your chance is gone ?

Because it won’t be coming back, the startup concessions won’t last forever - so do you trust him or replace him ?

 

[PP34]

As you mentioned, clubs aren’t charities, and when considering GWS and Cameron, who would be a better option to take this group to a premiership?

But I'm not saying to replace Cameron yet. I simply find it ridiculous that you think a coach making the finals is good enough to keep giving him contracts. Literally nobody in the footy industry would agree with you.

As a business, do you believe it’s viable for Cameron to be sacked and they have to start fresh, as a group, developing a new game plan under a new coach, who’ll want to make his own changes too? How long would that take/set them back? What’re the guarantees it’ll translate to premierships?

Sacking a coach is something no club wants to end up doing. Costs money, it's accepting that you've gone wrong as a club and then you have to deal with all that comes with a new coach. But if someone isn't getting results with a seriously good list, why is it a bad thing to start fresh? Yes they'll have to implement a new gameplan, work out which players they like and all that, but if you believe you've got the cattle but not the coach it shouldn't take too long to move on. And of course there are no guarantees.

You said it, winning GFs are tough, winning finals in general is bloody tough, and you’ve got to be friggen good to do it.

If GWS struggle to make the 8 next year, by all means, go crazy, but until Cameron has stopped getting them into premiership positions, he ain’t going anywhere.

So by your logic just making the 8 every year is enough for a coach and that means they're contending. That's nonsense sorry. If you're not in the top 4 you're at a serious disadvantage. No double chance and likely to have to win against better teams on the road. If the Giants won a few more games this year they could have been top 4 with a double chance, home final and if something like Kelly's injury happened they'd get an extra week for him to get right. I'm not saying they should have made it this year because injuries really did kill them, was just an example.

GWS gets a pass this year because they were ravaged by injuries. But if they simply just make the 8 next season, don't make the top 4 and fall short of making a grand final with a healthier list then something has to change. You must not think a lot of the Giants talent if you think at least making a grand final is too tough a task. Kelly, Whitfield, Coniglio and Ward would walk into any AFL club and be in their top 2-3 midfielders. Then you've got talent down back like Davis, Williams, Tomlinson and Haynes. Up forward Himmelberg, Cameron, Greene and Patton just to name a few. Haven't even included Hopper, Taranto, Scully etc. The amount of talent and depth they have is ridiculous.

Simply making the finals each year with that team is not enough. Other than 2016 they haven't been in premiership positions. Last year they were a rung below the two grand finalists and this year because of injuries they weren't.

I don't care what anyone else says, when fit this team has the most talent and should be the best team in the competition. If they're not going past what they achieved in 2016 then Cameron is doing something wrong. Every team has varying levels of expectations relative to their list age and talent. You think Geelong thinks the last two seasons have been big successes for them?

 

[nahnah]

GWS should be playing in grand finals, they have the most talented team in the league. He is not a good coach.

 

[maddog37]

There is heat on Cameron to perform because most people know the LIST on paper looks good. When he lost 4 in a row he then "Went to the bench" with talk there were conflicts going on in the coaching box. There was big pressure at that point on him I think. Without that form turnaround I think he would have been sacked this year.

Whoever made the decision to focus more defensively in 2017 from a fairly good attacking gameplan in 2016 needs to be held responsible. There are a lot of fast, creative players at GWS who are being hamstrung. The faster gameplan that made other teams fear and admire GWS in 2016 needs to be brought back especially with new rule changes favoring such things. As much talk as there was of "GWS players only run one way" in 2016, it was our best year and for good reason. If you want more defense you don't turn creative players into them, you bring them into the side. Look at what Ross Lyon turned Stephen Hill into, he was a game breaking running gun up until Ross turned him into a questioning defensive player. His brother at Hawthorn enjoyed better coaching that allowed him to utilize his talents more.

Pretty sure no one has ever admired the Giants old mate. Feared I will grant you but admired? I think not.

 

[Leeda]

Go to bed mate

just checking in with you as to whether it is still your perfect intention to enter the marital something.. I just can't work out it
oh that is it.. its s a bed.. sorry I am a bit choosy..

 

[PP34]

A lot of top sides are built with very good pressure/effort players and they are players who generally aren't high draft picks.

You put a heap of talented good footballers in a side and you get a lot of guys who are good at getting the ball and good with ball in hand but you might lack those players who apply pressure and defend and play with effort. Geelong have the same problem I feel.

Some guys make it on talent, some guys make it on effort and Champions do both. I think perhaps they have a lot of players who are making it on talent and perhaps they lack those real genuine pressure players.

In saying that I thought they left their defence very open and were a bit forward running. Teams have shown during the year that Collingwood can be troubled if you close down the space, apply the pressure and defend. They didn't do that, I think a defensive game plan and forced defence will suite GWS.

Been saying it for a while that they lack something. They can be selfish in their on-field decision making and when things go wrong they don't seem to have a lot of resilience. Other teams like Richmond, Sydney, Hawthorn etc have won flags off the back of some talented players but they've also found blokes with points to prove or were unheralded and turned them into tough handy footballers or even better.

I think the Giants have tried to do this with some of the blokes they've brought in but it hasn't worked. Blokes like Griffen and Deledio have spent more time injured than they have contributing. Why have they struggled so much to find some forwards who can apply pressure too? I'm against teams just following the trends, but the Giants are seriously lacking some players applying pressure. If their forwards could apply more pressure they would create more turnovers and more space and chances for Whitfield, Kelly etc to run and carry and hurt teams on the counter.

Really don't know what they were thinking with the way they defended the Pies forwards on Saturday night either. Particularly De Goey who they continually allowed to lead freely at the ball. De Goey has been best defended all year by plonking a defender to intercept in front of him.

 

[MVille Swan]

Its a shame that the Giants fans at Spotless on Prelim final night two years ago did not have the same passion as their fans in this thread.

When Toby Greene and Rory Lobb kicked goals early in the last quarter there was only polite applause. Bit like a cricket match.

Bit off topic I know but thought I would put it out there.

Yes, if ever there was a "Sliding Doors" moment it was this game. Even the most one-eyed Dogs fans would have to admit
they were extremely lucky to win that day, and even though I am a thirty year Swans member I am certain the Giants
would have comfortably beaten us (the Swans) in the GF. The crowd noise from the Dogs supporters was a lot louder than
the Giants fans which was a bit embarrassing I thought considering it was a home final for them. Though I get that a lot
of Dogs supporters had made the trip up from Melbourne so were likely to be very pumped up for the game, and a lot of
Giants fans are newer to the game. Callan Ward going off with concussion early in the game really hurt the Giants
also. His injury occurred right in front of where we were sitting. Close to the best game of footy I have ever seen.

 

[Colonial]

Pretty sure no one has ever admired the Giants old mate. Feared I will grant you but admired? I think not.

1 you dont speak for everyone.

2 you are small minded individual if you cant see what theyve done up here.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[ManOfClay]

Ward going off with
concussion (I think) early in the game really hurt the Giants also. .

This always gets mentioned but how about the bulldogs’ ruckman going down even earlier, leaving Tom Boyd to face almost three quarters of a game against Mumford? Giants lost one midfielder in a midfield of Shiel, Kelly, coniglio, Whitfield etc.

 

[Colonial]

This always gets mentioned but how about the bulldogs’ ruckman going down even earlier, leaving Tom Boyd to face almost three quarters of a game against Mumford? Giants lost one midfielder in a midfield of Shiel, Kelly, coniglio, Whitfield etc.

Our Captain as well.

Either way that was a while ago.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[ManOfClay]

Either way that was a while ago.

Not that long ago.

 

[Colonial]

Not that long ago.

In your mind maybe but that's 3 finals series ago.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[ManOfClay]

In your mind maybe but that's 3 finals series ago.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

But all pertinent when talking about Leon Cameron’s inability to get a list tailored for success by the league to the grand final

 

[Colonial]

But all pertinent when talking about Leon Cameron’s inability to get a list tailored for success by the league to the grand final

True it is all about Leon.

Id say tailored to be massively competitive.

Suns showed what a fine line that is.

The AFL knew players would want to go home or go for dollars and so the startup concessions were born.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[ManOfClay]

True it is all about Leon.

Id say tailored to be massively competitive.

Suns showed what a fine line that is.

The AFL knew players would want to go home or go for dollars and so the startup concessions were born.

Suns wrecked it. GWS didn’t. The AFL learned from freo’s inclusion and needed you guys competing to not be a running joke like early freo was.

Issue is now as these start up concessions disappear and gws undergoes a list squeeze have you missed your big chance now? How much is the driver of the Ferrari at fault?

 

[Draft Pick]

Suns wrecked it. GWS didn’t. The AFL learned from freo’s inclusion and needed you guys competing to not be a running joke like early freo was.

Issue is now as these start up concessions disappear and gws undergoes a list squeeze have you missed your big chance now? How much is the driver of the Ferrari at fault?

Freo was completely different. Got most of their players straight out of the WAFL and won 8 games in their first year and 10 in their third.

 

[Draft Pick]

Yes, if ever there was a "Sliding Doors" moment it was this game. Even the most one-eyed Dogs fans would have to admit
they were extremely lucky to win that day, and even though I am a thirty year Swans member I am certain the Giants
would have comfortably beaten us (the Swans) in the GF. The crowd noise from the Dogs supporters was a lot louder than
the Giants fans which was a bit embarrassing I thought considering it was a home final for them. Though I get that a lot
of Dogs supporters had made the trip up from Melbourne so were likely to be very pumped up for the game, and a lot of
Giants fans are newer to the game. Callan Ward going off with concussion early in the game really hurt the Giants
also. His injury occurred right in front of where we were sitting. Close to the best game of footy I have ever seen.

Bulldogs were in front for the whole time Ward was on the ground. How the hell can you say the WB were extremely lucky to win that game ?



Ah yes you are a Swans supporter here comes something about umpires.

 

[Colonial]

Bulldogs were in front for the whole time Ward was on the ground. How the hell can you say the WB were extremely lucky to win that game ?



Ah yes you are a Swans supporter here comes something about umpires.

Rather defensive.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Draft Pick]

Rather defensive.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

If you had seen your team win a PF you would understand

 

[Colonial]

If you had seen your team win a PF you would understand

All that's been said was if our Captain and onfield leader was still there things MAY have been different.

He wasnt and you lot won. We move on.

If we win a final and I'm as defensive as some dogs fans then I hope we dont. Sounds like no fun.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Draft Pick]

All that's been said was if our Captain and onfield leader was still there things MAY have been different.

He wasnt and you lot won. We move on.

If we win a final and I'm as defensive as some dogs fans then I hope we dont. Sounds like no fun.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Roughead was a bigger loss than Ward.

 

[Colonial]

Roughead was a bigger loss than Ward.

Disagree. But as I've said. That's all in the past now.

Am only worried about 2019. As are 14 other clubs.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk