List Cleanup for 2017

[Purpellian Anchor]

So with 8 retirements/delistings, Balic and possibly Croz and/or Subes to depart, and almost certainly Wilson and Matera joining us, what types and quantities of players are people expecting us to draft this off season, and the priorities around each?

I'm thinking best available inside mid/fwd with pick #5, a KPF prospect with our 2nd pick, then a small forward and perhaps a mature age inside mid in the national draft. And then via the rookie draft, a speculative KPF, a project ruck and a KPD. That's 7 picks across the two drafts which I think is plenty - not sure how we fill the other 1-2 spots though unless we use 5 picks in the ND, in which case I'd go another young mid. What are others thinking?

Think your right there...and for sure they would be keeping an eye on their picks in relation to what they have done their homework on......it will be hard to pinpoint whose available at each of our picks but there will be the "right types" available, but which one?

Basic groups of mids and talls/ possible forwards (50 in this group that could be added too)

RAYNER, DOW, DAVIES UNIAKE, CERRA, STEPHENSON, FOGARTY, CONSTABLE, COFFIELD, O BRIEN, HUNTER CLARK, WORPEL, HIGGINS, SHIPLEY, SAMBONO, STARCEVICH, AINSWORTH, NAISH, CROSSLEY, L FOGARTY, GARNER, BRAYSHAW, PATMORE, SPARGO , KELLY, BANFIELD,

ENGLAND, A BONAR, BAILEY, PETRUCELLA, HOULAHAN, LIAM RYAN, MCPHERSON, NEWMAN, ROSS, MOORE, STACK

BRANDER, HAYES, BALLENDEN, NAUGHTON, ALLEN, COLEMAN-JONES, BALTA, CLAVARINO, TAYLOR, KREUGER, DE KONING, H DIXON, PETTY, MILLER

 

[DeanS]

Tbf, A.Pearce isn't guaranteed to come back and if Hamling gets an injury I'm more than a little worried about Johnson or Logue lining up on Buddy or Ben Brown.

Collins was probably never gonna be amazing but was great as a depth player. Very strange decision delisting him.

One man's "depth player" is another man's "list clogger".

 

[Purpellian Anchor]

I'm devo we delisted Collins. Big mistake IMO.

would they consider a rookie spot for him if he does not find a home on another clubs list. Maybe the wait and see how things pan out then even select him with a late pick in the main draft. It may have been spelt out he will be second string and may not get much opportunity so helping him have the possibilty of finding that opportunity elsewhere..... We care about our players

 

[Deathly]

If we had any intention at all of keeping Collins we would of just given him another year like Sheridan / Grey. Yes there is good enough evidence to suggest we should of kept him for 12 months as back up although there's also even better evidence to show that the club already has a replacement in mind and moved past him (Cox swing, Naughton ETC).

 

[wayToGo_]

I feel a bit the same way about KPDs as I do about rucks atm. I think a lot of teams are trying to get away with playing 1 ruck and only 2 KPDs to make them more mobile. And now possibly looking at only 1-2 KPFs as well. We are building a pretty speedy list trading in guys like Bennell and Wilson to add to the Hills, Weller, Langdon etc. If you end up playing 5-6 talls total as part of your B22, how many do you really need on your list as backup? Especially when for a rebuild backup players should mean developing players getting an opportunity if one arises.

We currently have 11 talls on our list (imo): Sandi, Darcy, Apeness, Taberner, Hamling, APearce, Johnson, Cox, McCarthy, Strnadica, Duman

And we'll no doubt add another couple. So less than half would be in our B22 at any point in time. Peel looked way too tall for most of the season this year, I'd rather have a more balanced list with more developing mids and fwds, rather than an over supply of rucks and KPDs like we had this year.

 

[Purpellian Anchor]

What are others thinking?[/QUOTE]

According to who I think will be available at time of pick and we'd be interested in to fill our gaps
So at the moment:

first pick 5 out of D Uniacke Stephenson and Coffield
second pick 40; out of Dixon Hayes Miller
third pick 55; Patmore, Kelly, Ainsworth
fourth pick; Ryan, Stack,

I think we'd be wise to try to get a pick in the 20' early 30's at the expense of 55 and 58 during trade week. Thus say picks 5, 30 and 40 like that. That gives us a differet capacity to get three we want.

 

[Nickos66]

Suban will likely get us nothing.

The contract required for compensation
Band 1 compo (pick after teams first pick) = Top 5% of players over 25 year old
Band 2 compo (pick at the end of first round) = Top 5-15% of players over 25 year old
Band 3 compo (pick after teams second pick) = Top 15-30% of players over 25 year old
Band 4 compo (pick at the end of second round) = Top 30-50% of players over 25 years old
Band 5 compo (pick after teams third pick) = Top 50-75% of players over 25 years old* (not stated in article, but based off pattern)

The following players didn't generate compensation for their club;
Jarrad Waite
Jame Gwilt
Matthew White
Xavier Ellis
Chris Knights
Shannon Byrnes
Tom Murphy

If he got 3 years somewhere he would. But I can't see us being that lucky 2 years in a row.

 

[Mincho]

One way implies they don't run defensively which is not true. They are very attacking at stoppages. That's what Suban, Muz, De Boer were for.

Kind of my point - Mz/Db no longer walking through the middle, with Suban looking for another contract.

Who does the grunt work in the middle?

 

[Paracleet]

Kind of my point - Mz/Db no longer walking through the middle, with Suban looking for another contract.

Who does the grunt work in the middle?

*shrug*
No one on the list as of today seems qualified other than Subes, who, as you say we might be about to delist.

 

[Scham]

Kind of my point - Mz/Db no longer walking through the middle, with Suban looking for another contract.

Who does the grunt work in the middle?

Fyfe and Neale just like they always have.

Mz and MDB spent very little time in the midfield. Suban I'll give you, apparently his blocking is first rate.

 

[Scham]

I feel a bit the same way about KPDs as I do about rucks atm. I think a lot of teams are trying to get away with playing 1 ruck and only 2 KPDs to make them more mobile. And now possibly looking at only 1-2 KPFs as well. We are building a pretty speedy list trading in guys like Bennell and Wilson to add to the Hills, Weller, Langdon etc. If you end up playing 5-6 talls total as part of your B22, how many do you really need on your list as backup? Especially when for a rebuild backup players should mean developing players getting an opportunity if one arises.

We currently have 11 talls on our list (imo): Sandi, Darcy, Apeness, Taberner, Hamling, APearce, Johnson, Cox, McCarthy, Strnadica, Duman

And we'll no doubt add another couple. So less than half would be in our B22 at any point in time. Peel looked way too tall for most of the season this year, I'd rather have a more balanced list with more developing mids and fwds, rather than an over supply of rucks and KPDs like we had this year.

It won't happen but if we were to structure up as close as possible to how Richmond did in the GF we'd have McCarthy as our only KF, Darcy as our only ruck and AP and Hamling as our KDs.

Meaning the following players would line up for Peel;

Sandi
Tabs
Cox
Kerstin
Jonno
Strnadica
Apeness

 

[wayToGo_]

It won't happen but if we were to structure up as close as possible to how Richmond did in the GF we'd have McCarthy as our only KF, Darcy as our only ruck and AP and Hamling as our KDs.

Yep that's what my best 22 (in the other thread) was based on - although I think Cam would need to play the Caddy or Townshend role and bring in Tabs to play the Riewoldt role. I think it lines up comparatively really well but does rely on APearce and Bennell being fully fit, McCarthy having better fitness, and Tabs being more consistent. I think at full strength our midfield is better than Richmond's and with both Wilson and Ryan could even have better rebound but they'd be better defensively and their forward line stronger overall. We probably are also one big bodied ball winner short atm but we should get one in this year's draft like they got Graham last year.

 

[Taylor]

Fast accurate ball movement with a dominant clearance team to get it outside to those fast accurate ball movers will tear any pressure focused team apart.

Handball backwards, clear sideways and they won't touch the ball again until the contested mark forward.

 

[The Joker]

We probably are also one big bodied ball winner short atm but we should get one in this year's draft like they got Graham last year.

Enter Kyron Hayden, big body who is very strong inside that is quite quick when he wants to run and has a massive running leap (Beat NicNats DC record with 103cm). Had a good year dispite having a year off in 2016 for a hip OP, I just don't think he will be around at pick 41. In the Sam Powell Pepper mould minus the ego (NTTAWWT)!

 

[mightymouse75]

A last name first and a first name surname. My kinda guy

 

[mightymouse75]

Do you think just delisting the likes of deboer & Sam Collins is smart. They would get only a token pick. Or be the steak knives in a deal ?
Is it easier for them to look for another club ?? Are we being nice ??

 

[paccraig]

this may be posted elsewhere, and under a firewall, so nntheless. Queries Kersten work ethic..

Gary Buckenara analyses Fremantle’s list after the 2017 season

FREMANTLE and coach Ross Lyon have a history of trading for players from rival clubs rather than investing in the draft and it’s time for that to stop, for now.
The Dockers need to invest in the draft to bring in top-end talent to replace the stars it has lost — Matthew Pavlich and Luke McPharlin — and those set to retire in the next year or two like Aaron Sandilands, Michael Johnson, David Mundy and Hayden Ballantyne.
GARY BUCKENARA: WHAT REALLY HAPPENS DURING THE TRADE PERIOD
GARY BUCKENARA: IF YOU THINK TRADE TALKS STOP ON THE WEEKEND, THINK AGAIN
The challenge and courage it takes to build a list via the draft is to understand and accept the players you draft now can help you in three years, rather than straight away like a player from a rival club.
Ross needs to understand that this is the right call.
The way forward for Fremantle is to make tough decisions on some of the club’s experienced players and those who have been around for years like Danyle Pearce, Nick Suban, Matt Taberner and even Michael Apeness.

Bradley Hill had an outstanding first season at the Dockers. Picture: Getty
Clear out the players who won’t be in the club’s premiership model and take a bunch of picks to the draft for the next two years.
This year’s draft is an even one, but next year’s is likely to be the next superdraft and the Dockers can set up their next era from there.
Stop topping up with fringe players or C-graders from rival clubs.
The reason they struggled so much late was because of the injury toll and the list simply does not have the depth, despite having those experienced role players on the list, at the moment to cover for missing stars.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way to get that depth though isn’t by grabbing an experienced C-grade player or two from an opposition club.
Fremantle needs to develop their own because these young kids will likely to develop into better players, particularly if they’re taken with early picks, than a fringe player from a rival club.
Connor Blakely is a good example of this.
He was basically a consistent best 22 player this year and his development went through the roof and became one of the club’s best on-ballers.
This is exactly what I’m talking about in giving young players a go rather than role players from rival clubs.

Fremantle and coach Ross Lyon need to put their faith in the draft, Gary Buckenara writes. Picture: Getty
On the surface, given the results at the end of the season with consecutive 100-point losses, it would appear the Fremantle list is in deep trouble, but that’s not actually the case — it’s not panic stations.
The list is a lot better than that, it just hasn’t had a lot of luck with injuries in the past two years, which has exacerbated the issues with the list and exposed holes.
But when it’s fully fit — and Nat Fyfe and Sandilands are the big ones — it can be competitive.
Look at the midfield with Fyfe, Mundy, Lachie Neale, the Hill brothers, Blakely, Ed Langdon, Lachie Weller, and with Sandilands in the ruck and Harley Bennell as the wildcard who can be an A-grader if he can now stay on the park.
That The midfield actually has some potency to it, and if all fit and firing will make Fremantle a very competitive team.
Down back I really like Griffin Logue as a young, developing player who I believe can become a good key defender alongside Joel Hamling, but hopefully with another big-bodied big man to help them in the future.

One player the Dockers should be asking about in the trade period is Swan Aliir Aliir. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Alex Pearce has shown good signs but was injured for basically the whole season.
Luke Ryan can then be free to be the medium defender who can play that intercept-marking role that is so crucial now.
While I want to see Fremantle invest in the draft I wouldn’t be opposed to it asking the question of Aliir Aliir and Sydney.
He would be basically a read-made replacement for Michael Johnson down back as that tall defender who can intercept mark and create off halfback.
He would probably come at a reasonable price too — I’d offer a third-round pick and see what the Swans say — given he has played NEAFL basically all season.
He went to the Swans from WA, so being in more familiar surroundings might help.

Fremantle is keen on GWS halfback Nathan Wilson, but he wouldn’t be a priority for the club’s needs according to Gary Buckenara. Picture: Getty
The Dockers appear set to land Greater Western Sydney halfback Nathan Wilson, but for me he wouldn’t really be a priority for what this list needs.
While he is a good player, the priority for Fremantle should be talls.
What he does do, though, is add leg speed, and he really likes to run and create so he should add some dash off that half-back line.
How the Dockers get the deal done will be interesting as they don’t have a second-round pick this year.
It could cost them a second-rounder in next year’s draft, although I’d be very hesitant to give any 2018 picks up for next year given the strength of the draft and the fact Fremantle needs to rebuild.
They should also land Gold Coast small forward Brandon Matera, which is an OK move.
He’s not a star, but Hayden Ballantyne won’t play forever so he’ll be that small forward replacement.
He shouldn’t cost too much, perhaps a third-round pick.
WHAT THEY NEED
The club is still feeling the loss of Pavlich.
Cam McCarthy had a disappointing season and will need to put in a big pre-season to increase his engine and Shane Kersten will benefit when he’s the third tall rather than the second one.
Key position players must be a focus in the draft, particularly with early picks.
Cam McCarthy didn’t have a huge impact in his first season. Picture: Wayne Ludbey

Is Shane Kersten good enough? Picture: Getty
UNDER THE PUMP
McCarthy and Kersten need to stand up next year and perform more consistently as the club’s two focal points, while there are some big decisions to be made at Fremantle on players including Danyle Pearce, Suban, Apeness and Taberner.
Are McCarthy and Kersten capable of being consistent performers like Fremantle needs them to be?
They both have talent but have their issues — Kersten has always struggled with fitness and work ethic and McCarthy has talent but had personal issues.
If they can get themselves right and throw everything at becoming the best AFL players they can be then Fremantle will be in a good position, but if they don’t then it will set the club back. That’s why the club must draft young key forwards, because there are a few question marks.
Taberner has been given plenty of chances and Apeness was also pencilled in as potential replacements for Pavlich, but they’re struggling.

Gary Buckenara would delist veteran midfielder Danyle Pearce and other experienced players to start Fremantle’s rebuild. Picture: Getty
BUCKY’S LIST CHANGES
Zac Dawson, Garrick Ibbotson and Shane Yarran have retired, while Zac Clarke, Jonathon Griffin, Sam Collins and rookies Josh Deluca and Matthew Uebergang have been delisted, so that is a lot of changes.
But I’d also move on Danyle Pearce and Suban so the club can stockpile young talent.
I’d also facilitate the trade for Harley Balic back to Victoria given his personal circumstances this year.
CRYSTAL BALL
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Fremantle knocking on the door of the top eight in 2018, but a lot will depend on it having a healthy list with Fyfe and Sandilands leading the way, McCarthy and Kersten becoming consistent performers and Hamling developing further into his defensive role.
If the club can move on more of those experienced players — and I back the decision to move on back-up ruckmen Clarke and Griffin — like Pearce and Suban and bring in some talented youngsters via the draft and watch them develop, I expect them to be in the mix to play finals for the next two to three years.

 

[LeftFootBanana]

I think we try not to be campaigners. The Pig, Muz and Mick B seem to have left the club on good terms with Muz coming back to take on the development coaching role. Those blokes served the club well and deserved the chance to continue their careers elsewhere.

Trying to pry a late pick out of their departure probably isn't worth the pain. Sam Collins and Zarke might get picked up but realistically clubs are probably looking at them because they come at no cost.

I think the footy industry is a pretty small place and getting the reputation of being aresholes to deal with isn't helpful.

 

[wayToGo_]

Enter Kyron Hayden, big body who is very strong inside that is quite quick when he wants to run and has a massive running leap (Beat NicNats DC record with 103cm). Had a good year dispite having a year off in 2016 for a hip OP, I just don't think he will be around at pick 41. In the Sam Powell Pepper mould minus the ego (NTTAWWT)!

Yeah I think he's definitely worth a look as well. I'd be looking at Ben Miller as a rookie as well. KH should be there at our later picks as I don't think I've seen a phantom where he's been earlier than 3rd round (I haven't checked mind you). The recent combine testing puts them more on our (public) radar but the recruiters have been tracking their athletic profile for a while so not sure if he would have changed their minds as much as he has ours.

 

[FreoBraddles]

Nyhuis offered a one year extension for the rookie list.

 

[Deathly]

Nyhuis offered a one year extension for the rookie list.

Seriously hope they give him some opportunities next season and not piss away his year into Spurr. Weller on the out I really want to see both Hughes / Nyhuis playing together now for a string of games.

 

[Scham]

Nyhuis offered a one year extension for the rookie list.

They're really not quite sure on this bloke are they.

 

[wayToGo_]

They're really not quite sure on this bloke are they.

A Freo defensive forward kicking 4 goals in a game really confused them. "But your role wasn't to score goals!!!!!!"

 

[Superkoops]

2017: 39 senior list/ 5 rookie list

9 senior list gone (Ibbotson, Dawson, Griffin, Weller, Crozier, Balic, Clarke, Collins, Yarran)
2 new senior players (Wilson, Matera)
7 picks in the National draft (2,5,42,60,66,71,79)

2 rookie list gone (Ubergang, Deluca)
2 rookie picks in the rookie draft (5,23)

Nick Suban out of contract? (next pick 83)
Pay-out Danyle Pearce? (next pick 97)

These are just names not my thoughts
Any Delisted free agents (Aaron Mullett, Blaine Boekhorst)?
Any PSD (Billy Hartung, Kade Stewart)?

What are your thoughts?
1. Sign up Suban for 1 year, honour last year of Pearce’s contract and go with 7 ND picks? Or
2. Sign up Suban for 1 year, cut Pearce and go with 8 ND picks? Or
3. Cut them both, go with 8 picks and a DFA/ PSD pick? Or
4. Cut Suban, keep Pearce and go with 7 picks and a DFA/ PSD pick?

I don’t mind Mullett. Thought he was ok in 2017. Came off playing 20 games and averaging over 20
Possessions. He has got to be better than pick 79. Still only 25 (total 85 games).

 

[Scham]

Option 2 but use 5 picks and go 1 short in 2018 but it'll most likely be option 1