List management 101 (69?)

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I’m not sure when the rebuild actually started. It certainly wasn’t post 2016.

I think Scott called it an “aggressive reset” and we brought in a bunch of mediocre players to cover the forced retirement of club greats.

There was no serious appetite to rebuild and we went all in for another tilt late 2018 with the Polec debacle and acquiring Pittard, Hall and Dom Tyson.

After this went to rubbish, Scott then said we needed to rebuild and was rightfully punted.

It just went from bad to worse from there with Shaw taking over as interim coach, Shaw then being appointed senior coach, the hub, Rawlings and Luff, the list cull of 2020, hiring Paul Roos (who once traded pick 2 for Dom Tyson and said some club should trade pick 1 for Jordan Galluci) and finally appointing David Noble as coach.

It’s probably actually fortunate we had guys on such heavily front loaded deals, that we didn’t lose more players during that Noble era or the last 5 years.

Apart from a handful of players that have come out of drafting in that era, we are really two drafts into this rebuild with almost no senior players of note or winning experience to guide the ship. Shiels on paper is but is 33 and cooked.

“Patience is required” is what will again be a slogan for the next couple of years. The difference this time is we have people at the wheel who know what they are doing and we seem to have finally drafted in high end talent who will end up in the elite category.

On face value Rawlings should have already gone, but I guess it’s hard to know if it was him being overruled by the series of incompetent coaches, bosses and consultants over the past 5 years.

Having said that, if we are truly serious about being a high performance environment and having the best available in roles throughout the club and footy department, I’d suggest there are better options than Brady that we need to get in the chair.
 
We won 22 games across 2018 and 2019, and after winning the first two games in 2020 most of us were thinking finals. Given the mature players that we were chasing in the years prior, I don't know how you can argue that the rebuild started before 2020.

We should have started the rebuild in 2016, and that's why we find ourselves in this mess. Had we committed to the rebuild earlier, we'd have been able to focus more on the 2017, 2018, and 2019 drafts, and now had ourselves a better core of 23 to 25-year-olds lifting us up the ladder.

When we finally commit to a rebuild and take multiple picks to the draft, it's in a draft that COVID heavily impacts, and of course, we make the worst possible hire in David Noble, who essentially lost us the first two years of our rebuild. After taking into account Noble, the 2020 draft, and JHF, we essentially started again at ground zero in 2023 under Clarkson.
 

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It has been admitted by various people at the club we cut too deep. Todd Viney is on record saying so. That ain’t a tick. Even internally it ain’t a tick. :stern look

Ford, Goater and Curtis look like decent pick ups. Bergman will need to grab his chance this season. :stern look

We weren’t over a barrel when it came to the JHF trade. JHF was actually under contract with us. What happened there is that Rawling was incapable of using the actual leverage we had to maximise that deal for us. JHF is a Gun! Bottom Line. :stern look

George hasn’t played a game. RHJ is hardly a tick. Dawson has some qualities to like about him. :stern look

CCJ was an error. I can’t see how Rawling compensated for that error. :stern look

Phillips and Powell? C’mon Ferbs. We should Serong on our list now. Not Powell. Phillips couldn’t even make the Round 1 side! :stern look

And finally Corr? LOL! 5 years for a serviceable defender who is really only capable of playing 3rd tall. I posted my dismay at this recruited on BF at the time and really nothing much that Corr has done has changed my mind. :stern look

You know what Rawling got right? Sheezel. You and I would’ve got that one right. :stern look
wow very harsh view, especially when i could make a similar argument for almost any other club drafting considering they all too draft about 4 players each year. That’s 20 players every 5 years. Where do they all go!? The misses are greater than the hits for all.

Point being, you’ve ignored his many wins and then blamed the many failed players on Rawlings instead of the bigger issue and cause… which was piss poor development and coaching staff.

Notice after the review and when Viney came in who had to go and who stayed.

Also, absolutely disagree with you on JHF. Even with hindsight would make that trade again.
 
wow very harsh view, especially when i could make a similar argument for almost any other club drafting considering they all too draft about 4 players each year. That’s 20 players every 5 years. Where do they all go!? The misses are greater than the hits for all.

Point being, you’ve ignored his many wins and then blamed the many failed players on Rawlings instead of the bigger issue and cause… which was piss poor development and coaching staff.

Notice after the review and when Viney came in who had to go and who stayed.

Also, absolutely disagree with you on JHF. Even with hindsight would make that trade again.
Harsh but fair. :stern look

Anyway point out those “many wins”that Rawling has had. Last time I checked this has been the worst North Melbourne we have seen in our lifetime. Sure, Rawling ain’t solely to blame for where we are at but make no mistake he has played a his part in where we are at. Plenty of errors. And plenty pointed out in this thread. :stern look
 
wow very harsh view, especially when i could make a similar argument for almost any other club drafting considering they all too draft about 4 players each year. That’s 20 players every 5 years. Where do they all go!? The misses are greater than the hits for all.

Point being, you’ve ignored his many wins and then blamed the many failed players on Rawlings instead of the bigger issue and cause… which was piss poor development and coaching staff.

Notice after the review and when Viney came in who had to go and who stayed.

Also, absolutely disagree with you on JHF. Even with hindsight would make that trade again.
At the and of the day JHF is just 1 player, have no doubt he will be a gun but to have him as a placeholder for a year and get Wardlaw back in return thats not a loss,
 
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Harsh but fair. :stern look

Anyway point out those “many wins”that Rawling has had. Last time I checked this has been the worst North Melbourne we have seen in our lifetime. Sure, Rawling ain’t solely to blame for where we are at but make no mistake he has played a his part in where we are at. Plenty of errors. And plenty pointed out in this thread. :stern look
his many wins could be compared to Dodoro winning trade week for the last 10 years, * still haven't won a final however.
 
He had a second round pick two picks later (used on B George) and a year later we have all of our picks back. We still have CCJ but that's really the only loss in that trade. Unfortunately we are stuck with him for now.
CCJ was worth a punt, only real issue was what we spent for him and the contract length for a speculative punt,

Phillips is better than anyone else from the first round in that draft. The best footy we played last year was with him in the side. Personally I'd have picked Pickett over Serong anyway.

I woulda taken Serong but i had a bit of prior knowledge on him given i worked with his dad for a few years and went to school with his mum and my dad played against his Pop Eric Deppelar who was a gun,
anyone from west gippy knows those serong boys are all pretty decent sportsmen mainly cricketers but they all have natural qualities, bit like a poor mans ablett family.

Pappley comes from a similar decent sporting family background as does Duursma.
 
On face value Rawlings should have already gone, but I guess it’s hard to know if it was him being overruled by the series of incompetent coaches, bosses and consultants over the past 5 years.

Having said that, if we are truly serious about being a high performance environment and having the best available in roles throughout the club and footy department, I’d suggest there are better options than Brady that we need to get in the chair.

At the time I was speaking to old mate about the goings on, and he mentioned that too much was left up to Brady to undertake.
Brady wasn't happy during that period.
But as you and others have stated, we seem to have finally got some off field stability and all are working together.

For me looking back this rebuild started on Mar 15, 2022, that is when Dr Sonja Hood took over as President. Of course there wasn't much that could be done around attitude and on field direction as the season proper was 5 days away.

We lost to the Hawfs by 20 points and of the 23 that took to the field 43.47% are no longer part of our club. Then the good Doc got to work, and wasn't there plenty to do.

Al clarko was always going to bring his own special blend of stability while at times acting rather unstably, part of his charm. He's not one to toe the party line. As we saw during the pre-season, the boys loved how he stuck up for them.

But while there is so much to like, I'm really not up to getting belted every other week, it's worn thin. How the * we haven't a CHF, a 2nd ruck, or CHB is beyond me.

We should have kept Tommy Campbell is so much better than any other option and he seems happy enough plying his trade at the Saints for a total of 2 games since 2022.

Peter Wright was a fourth rounder, I was hoping we'd have got him, is another that would have been a great option for next to nothing.


I really hope we get aggressive in the market place when this season is over.
 
We are all aware that our list management has been a s**t show. However I really hope we have turned the corner with regard to players we have taken in the draft.

2022 Is a winner with Sheezel and Wardlaw. We need to see more of Brayden George and Cooper Harvey but they look promising. Blake Drury taken in the rookie draft and Robert Hansen Junior taken in the 2023 MSD are both long shots but can see why they have been given the opportunity.

2023 Is also a winner in my view with McKercher and Duursma. Goad, Will Dawson and Hardeman all fit needs on our list. From the little I have seen they all have a lot of talent so hopefully they will continue to develop and plug some of the glaring holes on our list. I don't know whether Pink will make it or not but with our lack of KPD depth he was judged the best available from the lower level. Maley taken in the rookie draft and Sellers in SSP are both long shots but give us some cover in areas of great need.
 
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Harsh but fair. :stern look

Anyway point out those “many wins”that Rawling has had. Last time I checked this has been the worst North Melbourne we have seen in our lifetime. Sure, Rawling ain’t solely to blame for where we are at but make no mistake he has played a his part in where we are at. Plenty of errors. And plenty pointed out in this thread. :stern look
The list as it stands today is FAR from the worst ive seen, but leading up to its creation you're probably right. But we couldnt rebuild with journeymen again and finish 9th, it was time for our medicine.
 
I’m not sure when the rebuild actually started. It certainly wasn’t post 2016.

I think Scott called it an “aggressive reset” and we brought in a bunch of mediocre players to cover the forced retirement of club greats.

There was no serious appetite to rebuild and we went all in for another tilt late 2018 with the Polec debacle and acquiring Pittard, Hall and Dom Tyson.

After this went to rubbish, Scott then said we needed to rebuild and was rightfully punted.

It just went from bad to worse from there with Shaw taking over as interim coach, Shaw then being appointed senior coach, the hub, Rawlings and Luff, the list cull of 2020, hiring Paul Roos (who once traded pick 2 for Dom Tyson and said some club should trade pick 1 for Jordan Galluci) and finally appointing David Noble as coach.

It’s probably actually fortunate we had guys on such heavily front loaded deals, that we didn’t lose more players during that Noble era or the last 5 years.

Apart from a handful of players that have come out of drafting in that era, we are really two drafts into this rebuild with almost no senior players of note or winning experience to guide the ship. Shiels on paper is but is 33 and cooked.

“Patience is required” is what will again be a slogan for the next couple of years. The difference this time is we have people at the wheel who know what they are doing and we seem to have finally drafted in high end talent who will end up in the elite category.

On face value Rawlings should have already gone, but I guess it’s hard to know if it was him being overruled by the series of incompetent coaches, bosses and consultants over the past 5 years.

Having said that, if we are truly serious about being a high performance environment and having the best available in roles throughout the club and footy department, I’d suggest there are better options than Brady that we need to get in the chair.
Paul Roos.

* me, I completely forgot we employed that money pit.
 

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At the time I was speaking to old mate about the goings on, and he mentioned that too much was left up to Brady to undertake.
Brady wasn't happy during that period.
But as you and others have stated, we seem to have finally got some off field stability and all are working together.

For me looking back this rebuild started on Mar 15, 2022, that is when Dr Sonja Hood took over as President. Of course there wasn't much that could be done around attitude and on field direction as the season proper was 5 days away.

We lost to the Hawfs by 20 points and of the 23 that took to the field 43.47% are no longer part of our club. Then the good Doc got to work, and wasn't there plenty to do.

Al clarko was always going to bring his own special blend of stability while at times acting rather unstably, part of his charm. He's not one to toe the party line. As we saw during the pre-season, the boys loved how he stuck up for them.

But while there is so much to like, I'm really not up to getting belted every other week, it's worn thin. How the * we haven't a CHF, a 2nd ruck, or CHB is beyond me.

We should have kept Tommy Campbell is so much better than any other option and he seems happy enough plying his trade at the Saints for a total of 2 games since 2022.

Peter Wright was a fourth rounder, I was hoping we'd have got him, is another that would have been a great option for next to nothing.


I really hope we get aggressive in the market place when this season is over.
I don't think we have looked outside the box enough. Hoping that has now changed (Fisher, Stephens, Pink, Maley and even Sellers).

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What was outside the box about those players you reckon hilly? Sellers couldn't have been more inside the box !
 
Paul Roos.

* me, I completely forgot we employed that money pit.
There were many potholes that we fell into. However, the Paul Roos period was truly awful. In my mind, I think we got sucked into that situation because we were so gun shy after the Shaw debacle. The media were hammering us because we didn’t go through a transparent process before nominating Shaw. In particular, Roos had been vocal about this. So, what do we do? We get Roos to basically run our next coach appointment show. We all know that Noble was Roos’ idea. Really, the whole saga cost us massively.
 
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How about a small forward?
I don't think using early picks on this is the answer. One game in I know, but looking at the "Wizard" on the weekend, I don't think Hawthorn will look back on that selection with any satisfaction
 
There were many potholes that we fell into. However, the Paul Roos period was truly awful. In my mind, I think we got sucked into that situation because we were so gun shy after the Shaw debacle. The media were hammering us because we didn’t go through a transparent process before nominating Shaw. In particular, Roos had been vocal about this. So, what do we do? We get Roos to basically run our next coach appointment show. We all know that Noble was Roos’ idea. Really the whole saga cost us massively.
the onfield debarcle was always going to be temporary, its the off field recruiting that put the rebuild back a few years, Mahony, the obsession with Qld spuds, neglecting talls.
 
I don't think using early picks on this is the answer. One game in I know, but looking at the "Wizard" on the weekend, I don't think Hawthorn will look back on that selection with any satisfaction
Through no fault of his own, he’s going to get pilloried.

Quality small defenders will destroy him.
 
Wasn't helped by earlier recruitment either.

We spent 3-4 drafts trying to recruit key defenders in particular.

Which we are still feeling the after effects of.

We spent almost half a decade trying to bolster for the replacement of Grima, Taz, Scooter, Spud etc. We spent just as long trying to unearth a half back (it sounds ridiculous in the modern game, as quality half backs are a dime a dozen), but we spent a lot of draft capital on McKenzie, McDonald, Atley, Wilkins etc.

After the failures of Durdin, Nielson, Watson, EVW, we also drafted McKay (who clearly was a hit) and Preuss and Larkey. We came to a point we simply couldn't afford to invest in any more KPP talent, as Wells, Boomer, Swallow, Higgins, Dal Santo all needed replacing and we were at risk of wasting the peaks of Cunnington, Ziebell, Brown etc which is exactly what happened and we've spent the last 7 years investing almost completely in the midfield, so much so we have a massive black hole in KPP's now as a result.

If we didn't land one of the best key forwards in the game for pick 6796, get Ben Brown out of the VFL before that and have Goldy to 36 years of age, god knows where we would be from a tall perspective.


The cruel thing is the draft cycle. You can't control who is best available each year, what type of players they are and you will lose on pure odds if you start picking for needs in the top 10.

We will likely add another mid this offseason if at the draft, so a decision will have to be made regarding whether we hit the trade table for talls.
No doubt trading out good picks for KPs is on the agenda, but we also need to get creative. Pink and Ngyuon might be a start in that direction, and others have had success - GWS got Hogan for a song, Levi Casboult was delisted and still giving good if temporary service at the Suns in a strong list.

It's possible
 

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