List management 101 (69?)

[Event Horizon]

My gutfeel says Rawlings will be gone at the end of the year (regardless of our finish) and Will Thursfield

Will Thursfield

Age

38

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.0

3star

promoted to his role (or we bring someone in from another club).

 

[Event Horizon]

Through no fault of his own, he’s going to get pilloried.

Quality small defenders will destroy him.

He's just way too small. I know we've read countless articles about him being an example of the size not being be all and end all. But I think in his case the size will in fact prevent him from making it.

 

[Sphynx]

Harsh but fair. :stern look

Anyway point out those “many wins”that Rawling has had. Last time I checked this has been the worst North Melbourne we have seen in our lifetime. Sure, Rawling ain’t solely to blame for where we are at but make no mistake he has played a his part in where we are at. Plenty of errors. And plenty pointed out in this thread. :stern look

What about McKay?

He’s reportedly made the much harder decision than 99% in here didn’t have the gumption for this time last year, probably including yourself.

He identified a long way out the compo would outweigh McKay and there was reportedly no contract on the table right until the last day.

He didn’t overpay for Brown either when Rama tried to have us over a barrel, a decision completely vindicated for a player who has fallen off the cliff. Can you imagine if we had to endure Brown on $900k per year at the moment?

Not defending Rawlings, just providing some balance. As the Corr and CCJ contracts are absolutely ******* horrific. Corr being one of the 4-5 highest paid players at the football club is diabolical at the moment.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

He's just way too small. I know we've read countless articles about him being an example of the size not being be all and end all. But I think in his case the size will in fact prevent him from making it.

People point to Caleb Daniel, with the key difference being that he basically plays spare off HB.

Watson is way too small to play at a centre clearance. He’s going to get blanketed up forward now he’s playing against adults who are bigger, stronger, faster. It’s why he’s proficient at the ‘selwood technique’. It’s one of the very few ways he can keep the footy.

 

[ferball]

They aren't. It is why we have had to back peddle somewhat. Pick up the likes of Greenwood and Shiels. It is why you've watched the worst North Melbourne team in your lifetime over the last few years. Sure we needed to move on some players at the end of 2020 but we cut too deep. Too deep! Wood and Williams should've been kept. They both were around that 26 year old age mark at the time. I would've kept Pittard for one more year and one of Majak or Durdin at the time as key defensive back up. Sure only Wood is still playing now but cutting too deep is in part why we have been so bad since that cull. And don't forget that bright spark brought in the likes of Young and Atu as replacements. That worked well. Plus and I say this with the benefit of hindsight, Goldstien should've been traded out. He had the most currency on our list. Instead it was Higgins and Brown and I reckon we got unders for Brown. :stern look

Fair enough.

Greenwood is a better player than he gets credit for. Especially as a defensive mid. Should be playing more when we complain about not having enough big mids in the side. Maj is cooked. i wanted to keep him to but his injuries were just too much by the looks of things. There are rumours about Williams extra curricular habits that might have contributed to his sacking too.

But ultimately it comes down to this. If we'd taken those steps would we have bottomed out? Then would we have had access to the young talent we have now or would we have stayed around mid table still in the same cycle of mediocrity because we didn't want to be on the bottom of the ladder? Yes its a gamble but nothing else we've done in the last 20 years has provided results

Maybe, but to do the best deal you have to be prepared to walk away from that deal. Ask anybody that deals. We blinked first. :stern look

If I was in Port's position I'd have laughed at you and walked away. I'd have kept JHF's offer on the table if he sat out 2023 confident that no other club would pay that much for someone who gave the club they were drafted to so much trouble. People say the commitment they made to his family is more important but footy is a business and Port would say the only other way he gets that big money and salvages his reputation while playing at home is to stay at North in 2023. His family would just have to suck it up and they would.

The other element of this is that it seems the club wanted him out because he was a toxic influence on the playing group and coaching staff.

Like I said before you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. If you want to talk about Mid Season Drafts well Edward was a Rawling balls up. Cost us Newcombe. :stern look

That's another hindsight call. Edwards was tall, dominating as an underager and what we needed. You say this but you'd have also traded Goldstein at this point, and not brought in CCJ. Where does that leave our rucks? Bottom line is from the three MSDs Rawling has had the first was poor but still an obvious selection, the second is starting to pay dividends now and the third has been at the club less than a year but is dynamic and looks like he could play the sort of football Clarkson is coaching us to play to a high level once he gets some AFL level fitness.

RHJ has a long way to go. Dawson may be a player but he only played one game last year. And that was even after Logue went down. So do you understand why I think you are clutching at straws here ye? :stern look

The year before Dawson played four games, averaged 15 disposals and 5 marks (IIRC) and provided plenty of run of the backline. And there was no way he was ready for AFL at that point. RHJ does have a long way to go but his best plays have very effective linking up from the backline and having multiple possessions in chains that bring the ball into the forward line.

No small forward on the list. Not one! I was kind enough to suggest Harvey and RHJ but even then others have rightly pointed out they aren't really small forwards. The guy is a Drongo. Not a list manager. And as for key backs please! Look at the list. Look at the mad scramble at the end of last year once McKay was out the door. Picking up a 25 year that had never played AFL Football at the top level and another guy who had only played one game. Where was the forward planning? :stern look

Harvey is a small forward or can play that role. He can crumb goals and tackle, he's the same height as LT and he reads the play well. Paul Curtis was six feet tall when drafted, while he plays taller technically he was a small forward and at least 2 inches shorter than the likes of Ford, Sleevo and Zurhaar tho he's grown nearly an inch since. When Atu came to the club he was a small forward and looked better on the forward line than he ever did off HB. Again that decision was not on Rawlings but the incompetent coach.

Our key back issues go back to a decade ago but Logue, Corr and both Dawsons look like good decisions to me. Wil Dawson looks like a good draft pick. Modern backlines play to a system and the tall gorillas we let go - Walker and McKay were too slow upstairs to play those systems.

Also there are too many mid forwards picked up over his tenure. We already had Zurhaar. Bring in Stephenson. Draft Ford and Curtis. Had Taylor already on the list. Pick up George. Why so many of a similar types? Same with the midfield. Small mids. Already had Simpkin. Pick up Phillps and Lazarro. Pick up Wardlaw. He has no concept of Ying and Yang. He loves a type. I repeat he is a Drongo. Bottom Line. :stern look

We need five or six mobile marking medium forwards for depth and we should also draft for talented players who can play in different positions, both Taylor and Stephenson have looked like not making it at times to the Sleevos credit he appears to have turned that around over the last 12-18 months. Zurhaar and Ford are both capable of playing in the middle and are bigger players (med forwards = big mids in height and size.) George is incredibly talented and our third pick in that draft, worth the risk for talent and has the body to be a big mid. Then add Greenwood, LDU and Thomas and we had a good mix of big and small mids at the last draft. Rawlings isn't responsible for what happened to Thomas.

Obviously the solution to all these small mids was to draft 1.79m Caleb Serong.

One final point... Rawlings is still alive, that means he breathes in and out so he must have some concept of Yin and Yang. That is what it refers to.

Hopefully Phillips does make it. But my wishes wont distort what is reality. He is small. One paced. Struggles to cover the ground in a modern game of run. Yes he is nice and neat inside but will that make him an AFL Quality Footballer? He would have to somehow turn into Sam Mitchell to become that. An accumulator that reads the play. That gets in the right position all of the time. Runs all day. Is he capable of becoming that? I'm not so sure. :stern look

He is small but two paced. I have to admit that what I've seen in the last 3 months is disapppointing in terms of his urgency to cover ground and spread. But he is fast over 5-10m and often gets first hands on the ball in tight and at stoppages.

Mitchell wasn't even drafted in his first go. He went to Box Hill and was drafted off the back of hard work. At the same age as Phillips, with glandular fever to hold him back Mitchell's average disposals were lower than Phillips last year. He and Phillips are in similar places at the same point in their careers, like Phillips and Jy, LDU and Cunners. It remains to be seen whether Phillips makes it as a player let alone one as good as Mitchell but at this point from what he has shown its still reasonable to expect that to happen. The ball is in his court and if he works hard enough he will succeed.

Plus a list spot. Plus the hard earned money that you and I pump into the club. The bottom line is he is not a Rawling success. :stern look

When Corr arrived he looked like the perfect complement to an aging Tarrant and a young McKay. I still think he should be on our list.

In summary you haven't given us many positives. Keeping Xerri. Hooray! Picking up Sheezel Hooray!. But if truth be told he has ballsed up a hell of a lot more than made the right choices. This thread is evidence of that. It is a cold hard reality that you and those of you who defend him will slowly realise with time. :stern look

Yeah I obviously completely disagree. Tho I don't think he's been perfect. Obviously chasing CCJ was an error and drafting Edwards and JHF were also mistakes.

It comes down to this imo:

Did we cut too hard or not in 2020/21. I think (with hindsight) we didn't, it was the right decision. We're not gonna know the answer to that till the end of next season. If our list is still a shambles then i'll happily call for Rawlings to go but right now I think its better than it has been since 2015/16. But losing Thomas hurts us alot.

 

[Mixed Results]

For me looking back this rebuild started on Mar 15, 2022, that is when Dr Sonja Hood took over as President. Of course there wasn't much that could be done around attitude and on field direction as the season proper was 5 days away.

I can't agree with this enough.

During the period of Geoff Walsh leaving the club at the end of 2016, to Hood taking over as president in 2022, we were the worst ran club by a large margin.

We were never going to turn things around with names like Buckley, Amarfio, Luff, Noble, and McPherson in charge.

 

[ferball]

Not defending Rawlings, just providing some balance. As the Corr and CCJ contracts are absolutely ******* horrific. Corr being one of the 4-5 highest paid players at the football club is diabolical at the moment.

How much does Corr get paid? I thought he came here on $550K per year.

 

[The Nostradamus]

How much does Corr get paid? I thought he came here on $550K per year.

Yeah somewhere between that and 600k

 

[ferball]

That's a huge issue.

On SM-S901E using BigFooty.com mobile app

It was at the time but we traded back into the second round, got Brayden George and then lucked out with AFL support so we now don't have to chase that second rounder and get it back.

 

[The acurate one]

Yeah somewhere between that and 600k

Around a mil less than Ben Magoo per season.

 

[ferball]

Yeah somewhere between that and 600k

So again with hindsight he looked like a bad choice but the game before he did his toe he was great off the backline. He's shown glimpses of that since but needs a few games of consistent performances.

 

[Event Horizon]

Just thought I’d throw in this hypothetical question to everyone here:

If we were to grab just 3 blokes out of GWS side that played on the weekend and put them into our team - Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

, Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

24

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

and Jesse Hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

. How much would that have affected the result?

I’d say it would potentially make it an even game with us a chance to win it, despite the other 20 GWS blokes remaining.

This tells me our list isn’t that far off. With Simpkin and Logue in the side plus one or two free agents - it could happen quicker than some think


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[ferball]

CCJ was worth a punt, only real issue was what we spent for him and the contract length for a speculative punt,



I woulda taken Serong but i had a bit of prior knowledge on him given i worked with his dad for a few years and went to school with his mum and my dad played against his Pop Eric Deppelar who was a gun,
anyone from west gippy knows those serong boys are all pretty decent sportsmen mainly cricketers but they all have natural qualities, bit like a poor mans ablett family.

Pappley comes from a similar decent sporting family background as does Duursma.

We needed your inside knowledge then.

 

[Epictetus]

What about McKay?

He’s reportedly made the much harder decision than 99% in here didn’t have the gumption for this time last year, probably including yourself.

He identified a long way out the compo would outweigh McKay and there was reportedly no contract on the table right until the last day.

He didn’t overpay for Brown either when Rama tried to have us over a barrel, a decision completely vindicated for a player who has fallen off the cliff. Can you imagine if we had to endure Brown on $900k per year at the moment?

Not defending Rawlings, just providing some balance. As the Corr and CCJ contracts are absolutely ******* horrific. Corr being one of the 4-5 highest paid players at the football club is diabolical at the moment.

Too hard to know the various details, but the mcKay outcome was the best thing for a club and an obvious no brainer. But in the end, give them credit.

It's likely Corr and CCJ are on a million + between them this year. That's a mess whichever way you cut it.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Free agents will be key for us, with the existing war chest and TT money we should target at least 1 this year and another 2-3 next year

I’d like us to go after Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

25

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

as a free agent

 

[Epictetus]

He's just way too small. I know we've read countless articles about him being an example of the size not being be all and end all. But I think in his case the size will in fact prevent him from making it.

This has been done to death, but it's shocking how small he is. I felt for him on the weekend.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Just thought I’d throw in this hypothetical question to everyone here:

If we were to grab just 3 blokes out of GWS side that played on the weekend and put them into our team - Tom Green, Sam Taylor and Jesse Hogan. How much would that have affected the result?

I’d say it would potentially make it an even game with us a chance to win it, despite the other 20 GWS blokes remaining.

This tells me our list isn’t that far off. With Simpkin and Logue in the side plus one or two free agents - it could happen quicker than some think


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

This brand of optimism and hope has no place in this thread. (stern sook)

 

[Event Horizon]

This has been done to death, but it's shocking how small he is. I felt for him on the weekend.

I have no issue in giving him an opportunity if he was a rookie or late pick, but given that he was always going in the top 10 (some wanted us to pick him with picks 2-3) I say this was always a big NO from me.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Just thought I’d throw in this hypothetical question to everyone here:

If we were to grab just 3 blokes out of GWS side that played on the weekend and put them into our team - Tom Green, Sam Taylor and Jesse Hogan. How much would that have affected the result?

I’d say it would potentially make it an even game with us a chance to win it, despite the other 20 GWS blokes remaining.

This tells me our list isn’t that far off. With Simpkin and Logue in the side plus one or two free agents - it could happen quicker than some think


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Taylor would make us four goals better on his own.

 

[Caracas]

This thread really delivers on the navel gazing side of things in all of us. We all need “nourishment”! Beat Freo FFS, North. Release us from this angsty, seven circles of hell that we’ve sentenced to for so long. In future years, this time will be referred to as “North’s Inferno”.

 

[murray wrensted]

At least we missed out on Gaff....

 

[The Nostradamus]

At least we missed out Gaff....

Through sheer luck

Brad and Joyce special that was going to be

 

[LB2Snake]

I think what he is saying is Port was as committed a buyer as you'd get. They promised JHF and his family the world, and had been into him from the get go.
We got a first round pick and what became a pretty late first round pick. Hardly a king's ransom for a player rated so highly. We were offered more than that before we drafted him, but the family played us like fiddles.
It's true that keeping him might have been problematic. But Port wanted him. A lot. And we could/should have taken a tougher line, I would suggest we might have demanded a player as well.
I almost guarantee Port would have caved give the commitment they made to him. And yes, Port were a big winner in that trade period and JHF was part of that.

100% with ya here. I think we could have got Port's Bergman thrown into the deal on the last day......that'd be bloody handy right now

 

[The Nostradamus]

100% with ya here. I think we could have got Port's Bergman thrown into the deal on the last day......that'd be bloody handy right now

That or even the other Duursma who left the year after anyway

 

[Ischenko]

Paul Roos.

* me, I completely forgot we employed that money pit.

Complete fraud. One positive out of his time with us is that his credibility is gone.