List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[Vader]

As well as include Toby Murray

It might be someone’s opinion Murray isn’t a Ruck ….. but it’s just an opinion of a 200cm player

Rumour is Sam De Koning might be rucking this year ……. this wasn’t even a possibility until GEEL were forced out of necessity to use him last season

Chris Burgess is still on the list too.

We don't have any pure ruckmen, other than ROB & Strachan - but we do have several other players who are part-time ruckmen.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Chris Burgess is still on the list too.

Borlaise is better than Burgess

 

[Mostyn]

If you're going to list Forward/Ruck players for other clubs, then you really need to include Thilthorpe for Adelaide.

And Toby Murray, until it's clear that they don't see him rucking.

I mean, surely they do, as he's not going to be a pure key forward. He needs to be a combo forward-ruck, replacing Himmelburg.

 

[Velvet George]

The ruck forwards Mutineer has listed I’m pretty sure could ruck the majority of a game and carry the ruck.

We don’t want Thilthorpe doing that and including Murray, Burgess and Borlace is taking the piss.

 

[Mutineer]

If you're going to list Forward/Ruck players for other clubs, then you really need to include Thilthorpe for Adelaide.

None of those listed are KPF's of anywhere near the talent of Riley Thilthorpe as a pure forward, none even close apart from Luke Jackson and historically Jackson does a lot more rucking than Thilthorpe.

 

[Vader]

None of those listed are KPF's of anywhere near the talent of Riley Thilthorpe as a pure forward, none even close apart from Luke Jackson and historically Jackson does a lot more rucking than Thilthorpe.

Hence why you'd describe some as Ruck/Forward, and others as Forward/Ruck. Regardless, Thilthorpe, Burgess & Turray should all be on the list, given their role as part-time rucks for Adelaide.

 

[Mutineer]

The end story is we only have 1 AFL level lead ruck a 29 yr 4th old Reilly O'Brien on our list whatever way you want to slice and dice it..

 

[1970crow]

Rather than clog up bigman thread a omparison of all AFL clubs ruck situations..

Adelaide
Reilly O'Brien 29yr 4mth
Keiran Strachan 29yr 3mth

Brisbane
Oscar McInerny 30yr 6mth
Darcy Fort 31yr 5mth
Henry Smith 22yr 3mth
Zane Zakostelsky 19yr 1mth (Defender/Ruck)

Carlton
Tom DeKoning 25yr 5mth
Mark Pittonet 28yr 7mth
Hudson O'Keefe 20yr

Collingwood
Darcy Cameron 29yr 5mth
Mason Cox 33yr 10mth (Forward/Ruck)
Illiro Smit 19yr 8mth
Oscar Steene 21yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)

Essendon
Sam Draper 26yr 3mth
Todd Goldstein 36yr 6mth
Nick Bryan 23yr 2mth
Vigo Visentini 19yr 4mth

Fremantle
Sean Darcy 26yr 7mth
Luke Jackson 23yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Liam Reidy 24yr 7mth
Odin Jones 19yr 3mth
Aiden Riddle 19yr

GWS
Keiran Briggs 25yr 3mth
Nick Madden 20yr 7mth
Logan Smith 18yr 3mth

Geelong
Rhys Stanley 34yr 1mth
Mark Bkicavs 33yr 9mth (Midfielder/Ruck)
Toby Conway 21yr 8mth
Mitch Edwards 19yr 7mth
Joe Pike 19yr 7mth
Jacob Molier 18yr 3mth

Gold Coast
Jarrod Witts 32yr 4mth
Ned Moyle 22yr 11mth
Max Knobel 20yr 6mth
Ethan Read 19yr 6mth

Hawthorn
Lloyd Meek 26yr 8mth
Ned Reeves 26yr 2mth
Max Ramsden 21 yr 8mth (Forward/Ruck)
Clay Tucker 20yr 9mth

Melbourne
Max Gawn 33yr
Tom Campbell 33yr 2mth
Will Verrall 20yr 10mth

North Melbourne
Tristan Xerri 25yr 10mth
Brynn Teakle 25yr 2mth
Finnbar Maley 21yr 5mth
Taylor Goad 19yr 8mth

Port Adelaide
Jordan Sweet 26yr 11mth
Dante Visentini 21yr 11mth
Ivan Soldo 28yr 9mth
Jacob Moss 19yr

Richmond
Toby Nankervis 30yr 5mth
Samson Ryan 24yr 1mth (Forward/Ruck)
Mate Colina 25yr 7mth
Oliver Hayes-Brown 24yr 8mth
Ben Miller 25yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)
Tom Sims 18yr 8mth

St Kilda
Rowan Marshall 29yr 1mth
Harry Boyd 26yr
Max Heath 22yr 2mth (Forward/Ruck)
Alex Dodson 18yr 7mth

Sydney
Brodie Grundy 30 yr 9mth
Peter Ladhams 27yr
Hayden McLean 25yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Will Green 19yr 4mth

West Coast
Matthew Flynn 27yr 4mth
Bailey Williams 24yr 8mth
Harry Barnett 20yr 11mth
Archer Reid 19yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Coen Livingstone 19yr 7mth (Forward/Ruck)

Western Bulldogs
Tim English 27yr 5mth
Rory Lobb 31yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Lachlan Smith 19yr 3mth

17 clubs with NFI on structuring a list.

 

[Truck25]

And Toby Murray, until it's clear that they don't see him rucking.

I mean, surely they do, as he's not going to be a pure key forward. He needs to be a combo forward-ruck, replacing Himmelburg.

I don't get to see much of the SANFL side, for those that do, have we even tried Toby in the ruck? if so, how did he go?

 

[Mutineer]

I don't get to see much of the SANFL side, for those that do, have we even tried Toby in the ruck? if so, how did he go?

He's had very limited exposure to the ruck in the SANFL thus far so really hard to judge given the big lack of quality rucks in that competition. He's been a forward that chops out in ruck only right back to the Murray Bushrangers times.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Rather than clog up bigman thread a omparison of all AFL clubs ruck situations..

Adelaide
Reilly O'Brien 29yr 4mth
Keiran Strachan 29yr 3mth

Brisbane
Oscar McInerny 30yr 6mth
Darcy Fort 31yr 5mth
Henry Smith 22yr 3mth
Zane Zakostelsky 19yr 1mth (Defender/Ruck)

Carlton
Tom DeKoning 25yr 5mth
Mark Pittonet 28yr 7mth
Hudson O'Keefe 20yr

Collingwood
Darcy Cameron 29yr 5mth
Mason Cox 33yr 10mth (Forward/Ruck)
Illiro Smit 19yr 8mth
Oscar Steene 21yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)

Essendon
Sam Draper 26yr 3mth
Todd Goldstein 36yr 6mth
Nick Bryan 23yr 2mth
Vigo Visentini 19yr 4mth

Fremantle
Sean Darcy 26yr 7mth
Luke Jackson 23yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Liam Reidy 24yr 7mth
Odin Jones 19yr 3mth
Aiden Riddle 19yr

GWS
Keiran Briggs 25yr 3mth
Nick Madden 20yr 7mth
Logan Smith 18yr 3mth

Geelong
Rhys Stanley 34yr 1mth
Mark Bkicavs 33yr 9mth (Midfielder/Ruck)
Toby Conway 21yr 8mth
Mitch Edwards 19yr 7mth
Joe Pike 19yr 7mth
Jacob Molier 18yr 3mth

Gold Coast
Jarrod Witts 32yr 4mth
Ned Moyle 22yr 11mth
Max Knobel 20yr 6mth
Ethan Read 19yr 6mth

Hawthorn
Lloyd Meek 26yr 8mth
Ned Reeves 26yr 2mth
Max Ramsden 21 yr 8mth (Forward/Ruck)
Clay Tucker 20yr 9mth

Melbourne
Max Gawn 33yr
Tom Campbell 33yr 2mth
Will Verrall 20yr 10mth

North Melbourne
Tristan Xerri 25yr 10mth
Brynn Teakle 25yr 2mth
Finnbar Maley 21yr 5mth
Taylor Goad 19yr 8mth

Port Adelaide
Jordan Sweet 26yr 11mth
Dante Visentini 21yr 11mth
Ivan Soldo 28yr 9mth
Jacob Moss 19yr

Richmond
Toby Nankervis 30yr 5mth
Samson Ryan 24yr 1mth (Forward/Ruck)
Mate Colina 25yr 7mth
Oliver Hayes-Brown 24yr 8mth
Ben Miller 25yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)
Tom Sims 18yr 8mth

St Kilda
Rowan Marshall 29yr 1mth
Harry Boyd 26yr
Max Heath 22yr 2mth (Forward/Ruck)
Alex Dodson 18yr 7mth

Sydney
Brodie Grundy 30 yr 9mth
Peter Ladhams 27yr
Hayden McLean 25yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Will Green 19yr 4mth

West Coast
Matthew Flynn 27yr 4mth
Bailey Williams 24yr 8mth
Harry Barnett 20yr 11mth
Archer Reid 19yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Coen Livingstone 19yr 7mth (Forward/Ruck)

Western Bulldogs
Tim English 27yr 5mth
Rory Lobb 31yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Lachlan Smith 19yr 3mth

So we’re the only team without a ruck in the first half of their 20’s (or younger)

 

[Mutineer]

So we’re the only team without a ruck in the first half of their 20’s (or younger)

Some are trying to say Toby Murray but for mine he was drafted as Himmelberg's replacement who also did very limited rucking in the SANFL the whole time he was with us....so moreso a forward capable of chopping out in ruck the same as the Berg.

 

[Crowtel]

Rather than clog up bigman thread a omparison of all AFL clubs ruck situations..

Adelaide
Reilly O'Brien 29yr 4mth
Keiran Strachan 29yr 3mth

Brisbane
Oscar McInerny 30yr 6mth
Darcy Fort 31yr 5mth
Henry Smith 22yr 3mth
Zane Zakostelsky 19yr 1mth (Defender/Ruck)

Carlton
Tom DeKoning 25yr 5mth
Mark Pittonet 28yr 7mth
Hudson O'Keefe 20yr

Collingwood
Darcy Cameron 29yr 5mth
Mason Cox 33yr 10mth (Forward/Ruck)
Illiro Smit 19yr 8mth
Oscar Steene 21yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)

Essendon
Sam Draper 26yr 3mth
Todd Goldstein 36yr 6mth
Nick Bryan 23yr 2mth
Vigo Visentini 19yr 4mth

Fremantle
Sean Darcy 26yr 7mth
Luke Jackson 23yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Liam Reidy 24yr 7mth
Odin Jones 19yr 3mth
Aiden Riddle 19yr

GWS
Keiran Briggs 25yr 3mth
Nick Madden 20yr 7mth
Logan Smith 18yr 3mth

Geelong
Rhys Stanley 34yr 1mth
Mark Bkicavs 33yr 9mth (Midfielder/Ruck)
Toby Conway 21yr 8mth
Mitch Edwards 19yr 7mth
Joe Pike 19yr 7mth
Jacob Molier 18yr 3mth

Gold Coast
Jarrod Witts 32yr 4mth
Ned Moyle 22yr 11mth
Max Knobel 20yr 6mth
Ethan Read 19yr 6mth

Hawthorn
Lloyd Meek 26yr 8mth
Ned Reeves 26yr 2mth
Max Ramsden 21 yr 8mth (Forward/Ruck)
Clay Tucker 20yr 9mth

Melbourne
Max Gawn 33yr
Tom Campbell 33yr 2mth
Will Verrall 20yr 10mth

North Melbourne
Tristan Xerri 25yr 10mth
Brynn Teakle 25yr 2mth
Finnbar Maley 21yr 5mth
Taylor Goad 19yr 8mth

Port Adelaide
Jordan Sweet 26yr 11mth
Dante Visentini 21yr 11mth
Ivan Soldo 28yr 9mth
Jacob Moss 19yr

Richmond
Toby Nankervis 30yr 5mth
Samson Ryan 24yr 1mth (Forward/Ruck)
Mate Colina 25yr 7mth
Oliver Hayes-Brown 24yr 8mth
Ben Miller 25yr 4mth (Forward/Ruck)
Tom Sims 18yr 8mth

St Kilda
Rowan Marshall 29yr 1mth
Harry Boyd 26yr
Max Heath 22yr 2mth (Forward/Ruck)
Alex Dodson 18yr 7mth

Sydney
Brodie Grundy 30 yr 9mth
Peter Ladhams 27yr
Hayden McLean 25yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Will Green 19yr 4mth

West Coast
Matthew Flynn 27yr 4mth
Bailey Williams 24yr 8mth
Harry Barnett 20yr 11mth
Archer Reid 19yr 3mth (Forward/Ruck)
Coen Livingstone 19yr 7mth (Forward/Ruck)

Western Bulldogs
Tim English 27yr 5mth
Rory Lobb 31yr 11mth (Forward/Ruck)
Lachlan Smith 19yr 3mth

we are such a revolutionary club outfoxing and outsmarting the competition at every turn

 

[Mutineer]

we are such a revolutionary club outfoxing and outsmarting the competition at every turn

Just seems an area that list management have let slide for far too long and now we seem to have got desperate pinching McAndrew from Norwood who had secured him in the knowledge Boyd was likely to be picked up by the Saints

 

[Crowtel]

Just seems an area that list management have let slide for far too long and now we seem to have got desperate pinching McAndrew from Norwood who had secured him in the knowledge Boyd was likely to be picked up by the Saints

I'm agreeing with you. It is going to fast become one of our biggest issues and the short sightedness in some of our list management decisions at the expense of long term ruck development is extremely poor.

 

[AFC979810]

Rather than clog up bigman thread a omparison of all AFL clubs ruck situations..

Adelaide
Reilly O'Brien 29yr 4mth
Keiran Strachan 29yr 3mth

Brisbane
Oscar McInerny 30yr 6mth
Darcy Fort 31yr 5mth
Henry Smith 22yr 3mth
Zane Zakostelsky 19yr 1mth (Defender/Ruck)

Refuses to list Toby Murray or TT as Forward/Rucks.

Then we move to Brisbane.

Lists Brisbane Key Defender who is 196cm Zane Zakostelsky as a defender/ruck. The absolute bullshit to list a bloke who played 16 VFL games in 2024 and had NOT ONE HITOUT - is classic Bicks.

Lists Key Forward Henry Smith as a pure Ruckman, https://www.lions.com.au/players/4053/henry-smith

Disingenuous much?

We have the same setup as Brisbane, WB, Melbourne, Sydney, St Kilda and Hawthorn.

 

[Mutineer]

So we’re the only team without a ruck in the first half of their 20’s (or younger)

Max Knobel was a golden opportunity let slide hey?

 

[Mutineer]

Refuses to list Toby Murray or TT as Forward/Rucks.

Then we move to Brisbane.

Lists Brisbane Key Defender who is 196cm Zane Zakostelsky as a defender/ruck. The absolute bullshit to list a bloke who played 16 VFL games in 2024 and had NOT ONE HITOUT - is classic Bicks.

Lists Key Forward Henry Smith as a pure Ruckman, https://www.lions.com.au/players/4053/henry-smith

Disingenuous much?

We have the same setup as Brisbane, WB, Melbourne, Sydney, St Kilda and Hawthorn.

Have you ever watched Zane Zakostelsky play? I have, he's played plenty of ruck for Claremont Colts before being drafted by Brisbane.

Zane Zakostelsky | WAFL

wafl.com.au

Zane Zakostelsky Draft Profile

Claremont tall Zane Zakostelsky has untapped potential as an athletic and versatile prospect who has entered the draft conversation.

central.rookieme.com

Zane Zakostelsky | AFL

Follow Zane Zakostelsky's progress through AFL

www.lions.com.au

Former basketballer, Zane Zakostelsky is another of the Lions draft crop from 2023, selected with pick 51. Hailing from Claremont Football Club in Western Australia, Zakostelsky display a high level of versatility in his draft year, playing both in the ruck and key defender. A powerful athlete converting from basketball, Zakostelsky stands at 196 centimetres tall and possess raw physical traits, highlighted by his best on ground performance in the WAFL Colts Grand Final. Zakostelsky finished top 10 in four of the five tests at the AFL Draft Combine further demonstrating his athleticism which should get Lions fans excited.

Zane Zakostelsky of the Brisbane Lions Player Profile and AFL Stats

Zane Zakostelsky of the Brisbane Lions profile and AFL statistics.

www.footywire.com

Zane Zakostelsky​

#21 Brisbane Lions
Age: 19yr 1mth Games: 0 Born: December 14, 2005 Origin: Claremont
Height: 196cm Weight: 89kg Position: Defender, Ruck
Drafted: Round 3, Pick #51 2023 National Draft by Brisbane Lions
Supercoach Price: $117,300 Supercoach Profile
AFL Fantasy Price: $200,000 AFL Fantasy Profile
Contract Status: Out of contract at the end of 2025 AFL Player Contracts

 

[AFC979810]

Just seems an area that list management have let slide for far too long and now we seem to have got desperate pinching McAndrew from Norwood who had secured him in the knowledge Boyd was likely to be picked up by the Saints

In all honesty - how are we different than Sydney, Brisbane and Collingwood?

If you think Brisbane lost Darcy Fort to a LTI they wouldn't be scrambling to get another player like McAndrew in? Or would they be happy to go into their season with just big O and Ruck/Fwd Henry Smith to ruck all season.

If Collingwood lose Mason Cox to a LTI - you think they aren't scrambling to get McAndrew? Or are they happy with Smit/Steene who have zero AFL games between em?

What about Sydney.... If they lose Ladhams to a LTI you dont think they are scrambling to bring McAndrew? Or are they happy having 19 year old Will Green shoulder the load if Grundy also goes down.

 

[AFC979810]

Have you ever watched Zane Zakostelsky play? I have, he's played plenty of ruck for Claremont Colts before being drafted by Brisbane.

Zane Zakostelsky | WAFL

wafl.com.au

Zane Zakostelsky Draft Profile

Claremont tall Zane Zakostelsky has untapped potential as an athletic and versatile prospect who has entered the draft conversation.

central.rookieme.com

View attachment 2205081

Zane Zakostelsky | AFL

Follow Zane Zakostelsky's progress through AFL

www.lions.com.au

Former basketballer, Zane Zakostelsky is another of the Lions draft crop from 2023, selected with pick 51. Hailing from Claremont Football Club in Western Australia, Zakostelsky display a high level of versatility in his draft year, playing both in the ruck and key defender. A powerful athlete converting from basketball, Zakostelsky stands at 196 centimetres tall and possess raw physical traits, highlighted by his best on ground performance in the WAFL Colts Grand Final. Zakostelsky finished top 10 in four of the five tests at the AFL Draft Combine further demonstrating his athleticism which should get Lions fans excited.

Zane Zakostelsky of the Brisbane Lions Player Profile and AFL Stats

Zane Zakostelsky of the Brisbane Lions profile and AFL statistics.

www.footywire.com

Zane Zakostelsky​

#21 Brisbane Lions
Age: 19yr 1mth Games: 0 Born: December 14, 2005 Origin: Claremont
Height: 196cm Weight: 89kg Position: Defender, Ruck
Drafted: Round 3, Pick #51 2023 National Draft by Brisbane Lions
Supercoach Price: $117,300 Supercoach Profile
AFL Fantasy Price: $200,000 AFL Fantasy Profile
Contract Status: Out of contract at the end of 2025 AFL Player Contracts

So because you saw him play as a junior where he played in the ruck against skinny 17 year olds - you think his 196cm frame is going to lead him to be a ruckman in the AFL?

The club doesn't list him as a ruckman. They list him as a defender. He had ZERO hit outs in the VFL in 2024 despite playing 16 games.

Just for reference - he played 6 games on a wing and 4 games across a half back flank.

VFL Stats - Zane Zakostelsky

vfl.aflmstats.com

Less of a ruckman than Ormond-Allen

 

[Danger in Texas]

Max Knobel was a golden opportunity let slide hey?

Would have snapped him up in a heartbeat if we had a rookie pick

 

[AFC979810]

Would have snapped him up in a heartbeat if we had a rookie pick

We did. He went at 4 and we took Harry Schoenberg at 3.

 

[Mutineer]

In all honesty - how are we different than Sydney, Brisbane and Collingwood?

If you think Brisbane lost Darcy Fort to a LTI they wouldn't be scrambling to get another player like McAndrew in? Or would they be happy to go into their season with just big O and Ruck/Fwd Henry Smith to ruck all season.

If Collingwood lose Mason Cox to a LTI - you think they aren't scrambling to get McAndrew? Or are they happy with Smit/Steene who have zero AFL games between em?

What about Sydney.... If they lose Ladhams to a LTI you dont think they are scrambling to bring McAndrew? Or are they happy having 19 year old Will Green shoulder the load if Grundy also goes down.

No I don't, why would any club restrict themselves to just McAndrew as the only option when there are other options out there in the State Leagues like Brayden Crossley or even East Fremantle's dominant WAFL ruck Lachlan Blakiston etc and 4 or 5 ruck prospects that didn't get drafted but have been picked up by State League Clubs and several invited back to their CTL teams when not required for their VFL teams.

 

[Danger in Texas]

We did. He went at 4 and we took Harry Schoenberg at 3.

Sorry, a rookie pick that we hadn’t already committed to someone else

 

[AFC979810]

No I don't, why would any club restrict themselves to just McAndrew as the only option when there are other options out there in the State Leagues like Brayden Crossley or even East Fremantle's dominant WAFL ruck Lachlan Blakiston etc and 4 or 5 ruck prospects that didn't get drafted but have been picked up by State League Clubs and several invited back to their CTL teams when not required for their VFL teams.

Because the club has clearly identified him as the best option - which is why he is training with the club.

Keep in mind that this is to possibly cover an injury to Strachan (who is our 2nd Ruck) for the first part of the year.

So we have ROB as our Ruck. If we lose ROB in the first 11 rounds we would need to use McAndrew/Murray until we get Strachan back and can pick another ruckman in the midseason draft.

You dont think any AFL would be in a hell of a lot of trouble if they lost their 2 best pure ruckman?