Liverpool FC: Where to next?

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ADL9798

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Carragher makes a good point here about Van Disney. While he has been a fair way off his best, Liverpools ageing and injury prone midfield gives their defence no protection.


Our defence under Klopp has always been predicated on a well coordinated press starting in the front third. Everyone drilled to know the triggers to press within an inch of their lives. All explosive, hard working athletes. When that press isn't functioning properly it cascades all the way to the back 4.
  • Henderson, ageing
  • Thiago, ageing and can't get on the park, even when fit not renowned for his defensive capability
  • Keita and Ox, can't get on the park
  • Elliott and Carvalho, talented but tactically naive
  • Diaz and Jota, injured
  • Nunez, in addition to not finishing his chances he's also nowhere near Mane/Firmino defensively.
No one player to blame. Multiple failures all compounding one another. Some of this is bad luck but it’s also worth asking whether some of the recent decisions made around recruiting/holding onto players were the right ones (Ferguson was the master of this).
 

jod23

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Bringing in Nunez and now Gakpo when they don't need forwards and they need midfielders shows a lack of self awareness. Not one player in that midfield could out sprint Darren Lehmann. Obviously with Jota and Diaz now injured it looks like a good idea but no one knew they were going to be long term injuries at the start of the season.
Well one was needed, not sure about two. With Mane going we needed another attacking player.

We've needed to bolster in midfield for about three years but just keep not doing it. It's been our downfall this season.
 

jod23

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Our defence under Klopp has always been predicated on a well coordinated press starting in the front third. Everyone drilled to know the triggers to press within an inch of their lives. All explosive, hard working athletes. When that press isn't functioning properly it cascades all the way to the back 4.
  • Henderson, ageing
  • Thiago, ageing and can't get on the park, even when fit not renowned for his defensive capability
  • Keita and Ox, can't get on the park
  • Elliott and Carvalho, talented but tactically naive
  • Diaz and Jota, injured
  • Nunez, in addition to not finishing his chances he's also nowhere near Mane/Firmino defensively.
No one player to blame. Multiple failures all compounding one another. Some of this is bad luck but it’s also worth asking whether some of the recent decisions made around recruiting/holding onto players were the right ones (Ferguson was the master of this).
This summer will be quite the turnover.

Firmino, Ox, Milner and Keita are all out of contract so will need replacing. We need at least three top tier midfielders. Henderson needs to assume the Milner role as an experienced closer of games. Cant start every game anymore.

It's not the end of the world to miss the top four. Arsenal have built nicely not being anywhere near CL football for years. One year out wont end everything but it will perhaps impact the key signing we are going for which is JB.
 

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Bradesmaen

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Well one was needed, not sure about two. With Mane going we needed another attacking player.

We've needed to bolster in midfield for about three years but just keep not doing it. It's been our downfall this season.
Fabio Carvalho came in. Currently these are the players you have capable of playing in the front 3:

Nunez, Salah, Firmino, Jota, Carvalho, Diaz, Gakpo, Elliot

That is more than enough even if you take out 2 of them.

Capable of playing in midfield: Henderson, Keita, Thiago, Fabinho, Ox, Jones. I'm not putting in Milner because he's old and past it. Even Henderson is nearing the Milner stage.
 

jod23

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Fabio Carvalho came in. Currently these are the players you have capable of playing in the front 3:

Nunez, Salah, Firmino, Jota, Carvalho, Diaz, Gakpo, Elliot

That is more than enough even if you take out 2 of them.

Capable of playing in midfield: Henderson, Keita, Thiago, Fabinho, Ox, Jones. I'm not putting in Milner because he's old and past it. Even Henderson is nearing the Milner stage.
Might be more than enough for a club like Everton fighting relegation but it doesnt quite cut it at the top level. Elliott and Carvalho are young and not ready to contribute at the highest level on a consistent basis yet. Plus both are kinda hybrid player, attacking players who can play midfield or in a front three.

You can take those out and it leaves us with six attacking players which is what you want. You want a quality front three and then basically a replacement from three with just as much quality which is what we now have with Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Jota, Firmino and Gakpo.

So we did the right thing bringing in a one for one with Mane out and Nunez in. Gakpo I dont think was even going to be a thing until the long term injuries to Diaz and Jota has left us very short. IMO we had planned another attacker in the near future but with the injury situation we just fast forwarded a transfer that probably could have waited until the summer.

It's midfield where the problems lie.

We have several players capable of playing midfield. Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Keita, Ox, Jones, Milner and the two hybrids in Elliott and Carvalho. Then we have the young gun in Bajcetic. That's 10 players for three spots. We have numbers just not really of the required quality.

Fabinho and Thiago are the only two in the top bracket quality wise. Milner is basically finished, Ox is not of the required level, Jones probably fits that category too although he has more time. Bajcetic, Elliott and Carvalho too young to really make a consistent impact. Henderson is aging very fast, could still be a squad player but cant be relied upon to start game after game. Keita is a walking sick note who barely plays despite his obvious talent.

So we have numbers, but the quality is all over the shop. We havent strengthened in midfield for years and years though so this was always coming. The powers that be obviously thought it was ok, but it's clearly showing that it isnt and the revamp of midfield needs to happen in the summer.

Ox, Milner and Keita's contracts all run out in the summer so that number will shrink from 10 to 7. We need at least two top talents in midfield, I'd prefer three but I dont think we will have the money. Particularly if we do get JB which will cost 100 million. Another of good quality just as a hypothetical say Caicedo as the second guy. With the emergence of Bajcetic and two young really good in mids in Bellingham and Caicedo then it starts to look a lot better.

Fabinho, Thiago, Caicedo, Bellingham, Henderson with backup in Elliott, Jones, Bajcetic and Carvalho and things start to look a lot better. I'd still prefer a third mid as well though.

I think we just need to work through the season with what we have unfortunately.
 

Bradesmaen

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Might be more than enough for a club like Everton fighting relegation but it doesnt quite cut it at the top level. Elliott and Carvalho are young and not ready to contribute at the highest level on a consistent basis yet. Plus both are kinda hybrid player, attacking players who can play midfield or in a front three.

You can take those out and it leaves us with six attacking players which is what you want. You want a quality front three and then basically a replacement from three with just as much quality which is what we now have with Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Jota, Firmino and Gakpo.

So we did the right thing bringing in a one for one with Mane out and Nunez in. Gakpo I dont think was even going to be a thing until the long term injuries to Diaz and Jota has left us very short. IMO we had planned another attacker in the near future but with the injury situation we just fast forwarded a transfer that probably could have waited until the summer.

It's midfield where the problems lie.

We have several players capable of playing midfield. Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Keita, Ox, Jones, Milner and the two hybrids in Elliott and Carvalho. Then we have the young gun in Bajcetic. That's 10 players for three spots. We have numbers just not really of the required quality.

Fabinho and Thiago are the only two in the top bracket quality wise. Milner is basically finished, Ox is not of the required level, Jones probably fits that category too although he has more time. Bajcetic, Elliott and Carvalho too young to really make a consistent impact. Henderson is aging very fast, could still be a squad player but cant be relied upon to start game after game. Keita is a walking sick note who barely plays despite his obvious talent.

So we have numbers, but the quality is all over the shop. We havent strengthened in midfield for years and years though so this was always coming. The powers that be obviously thought it was ok, but it's clearly showing that it isnt and the revamp of midfield needs to happen in the summer.

Ox, Milner and Keita's contracts all run out in the summer so that number will shrink from 10 to 7. We need at least two top talents in midfield, I'd prefer three but I dont think we will have the money. Particularly if we do get JB which will cost 100 million. Another of good quality just as a hypothetical say Caicedo as the second guy. With the emergence of Bajcetic and two young really good in mids in Bellingham and Caicedo then it starts to look a lot better.

Fabinho, Thiago, Caicedo, Bellingham, Henderson with backup in Elliott, Jones, Bajcetic and Carvalho and things start to look a lot better. I'd still prefer a third mid as well though.

I think we just need to work through the season with what we have unfortunately.
You talk about Carvalho and Elliot not being ready yet you put Bajcetic in there as if he's Fabregas reincarnate. You can't have it both ways like usual Jod. Klippity and his recruitment team ballsed up by focusing on wants not needs. They wanted Nunez (despite red flags) instead of buying a midfielder despite it being obvious that your midfield is old and slow. Thiago you may put in the top quality bracket but only when he's not put under pressure. Pressure him and he doesn't have the ability to run past anyone anymore and under pressure he doesn't play great balls.
 

jod23

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You talk about Carvalho and Elliot not being ready yet you put Bajcetic in there as if he's Fabregas reincarnate. You can't have it both ways like usual Jod. Klippity and his recruitment team ballsed up by focusing on wants not needs. They wanted Nunez (despite red flags) instead of buying a midfielder despite it being obvious that your midfield is old and slow. Thiago you may put in the top quality bracket but only when he's not put under pressure. Pressure him and he doesn't have the ability to run past anyone anymore and under pressure he doesn't play great balls.
Bajcetic is far from ready as well but what he is is more of a natural midfielder rather than being more a hybrid player like Carvalho and Elliott.

Im not defending anyone so not sure why you're coming at me. Klopp and whoever is in charge of transfers hasnt done a good enough job in revamping the midfield. That's pretty clear.

What you say about Thiago is nonsense though. He's class, glides past players all the time and rarely wastes a pass, whether under pressure or not.
 

RPCB

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I guess this is normal. You wouldnt know a quality footballer when you see one cos you gotta watch Everton players all the time.

You know that mocking a smaller club than your club doesn’t actually add to your argument.

All these Liverpool supporters have called Thiago not good enough



Are you also going to mock them?
 

jod23

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You know that mocking a smaller club than your club doesn’t actually add to your argument.

All these Liverpool supporters have called Thiago not good enough



Are you also going to mock them?
Yes. Yes I am.

Thiago has been phenomenal since he joined. No idea why those "fans" are getting on Thiago's back after one game when he wasnt even bad in that game? The problem is far from Thiago. The problem is the midfield around him.
 

RPCB

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Yes. Yes I am.

Thiago has been phenomenal since he joined. No idea why those "fans" are getting on Thiago's back after one game when he wasnt even bad in that game? The problem is far from Thiago. The problem is the midfield around him.

So all the online posts, columns, pundits ripping into Thiago during his entire first season as a s**t signing was incorrect?

I don’t know about right now but back then, Thiago wasn’t a good player for Liverpool.
 
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Sozabarus

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Thiago has been a class signing who the fans have loved since day one. He is the only midfielder we have that is consistently at the required level (when fit, which is his main problem)
 

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RPCB

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Thiago has been a class signing who the fans have loved since day one. He is the only midfielder we have that is consistently at the required level (when fit, which is his main problem)

There is no doubting that Thiago has been a great footballer for years. I am just saying what I have read about Thiago whilst at Liverpool. I stand corrected if he’s been excellent this season but that wasn’t the impression I got last season.
 

Sozabarus

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There is no doubting that Thiago has been a great footballer for years. I am just saying what I have read about Thiago whilst at Liverpool. I stand corrected if he’s been excellent this season but that wasn’t the impression I got last season.

First season he was injured a lot but great when fit and last season he made the PFA team of the year
 

jod23

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So all the online posts, columns, pundits ripping into Thiago during his entire first season as a s**t signing was incorrect?

I don’t know about right now but back then, Thiago wasn’t a good player for Liverpool.
What online posts, columns and pundits? Show me.

Cos you're just making s**t up. Thiago has been excellent ever since he signed.

You're having a mare here mate.
 

RPCB

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What online posts, columns and pundits? Show me.

Cos you're just making s**t up. Thiago has been excellent ever since he signed.

You're having a mare here mate.

I don’t need to show you anything, all you needed to do was read this board.

If most people on here were like you, we’d all be saying every one of our players is a great player. I would be saying McTominay is excellent for example.
 

jod23

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I don’t need to show you anything, all you needed to do was read this board.

If most people on here were like you, we’d all be saying every one of our players is a great player. I would be saying McTominay is excellent for example.
Yeah but McTominay is trash and Thiago is class.

I dont get why you're still arguing with me, you admitting you were wrong above so it's all good.
 

RPCB

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Yeah but McTominay is trash and Thiago is class.

I dont get why you're still arguing with me, you admitting you were wrong above so it's all good.

I admitted I was wrong about Thiago this season. But in his first season, he seemed to be getting criticised a lot.

So yes, I can be wrong with what I said earlier but still argue with you about how I viewed Thiago at the start of his Liverpool career.
 

Bojan KantKick

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I admitted I was wrong about Thiago this season. But in his first season, he seemed to be getting criticised a lot.

So yes, I can be wrong with what I said earlier but still argue with you about how I viewed Thiago at the start of his Liverpool career.
More thumbs up than completed passes.
 

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