M.Williams v T.Cloke

[smiddaz123]

Will happily provide you a link to video proof that the beep test does indeed still happen at AFL level if you can access Bomber.TV

Perhaps retract the statement? Beep tests still used in excess..

1) Do you have both Cloke and Gumbleton's beep test scores? If not it matters not.

2) The beep test isn't a very accurate reflection of a game situation. How much sprint goes on in the beep test compared to an AFL match, for example?

Also, plenty of people manage to lift for actual games. I remember back at school a guy would always go meh on the beep test but in actual games of sports he was able to run out games better than anyone because he was more ready mentally to push himself.

The beep test is a rough guide to see if someone has good endurance or not. I wouldn't say it's as simple as Player X scored better than Player Y, so Player X definitely has a better tank for AFL.

 

[Jade]

1) Do you have both Cloke and Gumbleton's beep test scores? If not it matters not.

I do not. I admit it is an inference - a big deal was made of Gumby's due to his size - no such deal was made of Cloke's which would logically indicate it was more 'normal' of a man his size.

2) The beep test isn't a very accurate reflection of a game situation. How much sprint goes on in the beep test compared to an AFL match, for example?

The beep test isn't designed to measure how well you sprint - it is a test of your aerobic capacity. Sprinting, walking, jogging, running - it doesn't matter. The person with the higher capacity can do the same and more. Especially prevalent in AFL due to the fact it is an extreme endurance sport.

Also, plenty of people manage to lift for actual games. I remember back at school a guy would always go meh on the beep test but in actual games of sports he was able to run out games better than anyone because he was more ready mentally to push himself.

The beep test is a rough guide to see if someone has good endurance or not. I wouldn't say it's as simple as Player X scored better than Player Y, so Player X definitely has a better tank for AFL.

Perhaps as a mod, you have a access to the link I just posted (or can chat to a Bombers mod) and conclusively state that the beep test does indeed occur at AFL level.

 

[smiddaz123]

I do not. I admit it is an inference - a big deal was made of Gumby's due to his size - no such deal was made of Cloke's which would logically indicate it was more 'normal' of a man his size.

Cloke, a strong mark with excellent endurance for a man with a 196cm, 103kg frame

Tonight he will be asked to call on all his endurance levels and game smarts to combat Cloke, arguably Collingwood's most important forward.

It's mentioned throughought articles Commentators often comment on his work rate. So do the coaching staff at Collingwood. All Collingwood fans notice it too.

Gumbleton would be more naturally athletic and fit than Cloke, but I'd be interested to see which player defenders think covers more ground and the like. Cloke has developed a heap through hard work on the track.

I'm aware of how good Gumbleton is athletically though, so even if he does edge out Cloke in this regard, it's still pretty clear that it's an aspect that Cloke brings to his team anyway.

The beep test isn't designed to measure how well you sprint - it is a test of your aerobic capacity. Sprinting, walking, jogging, running - it doesn't matter. The person with the higher capacity can do the same and more. Especially prevalent in AFL due to the fact it is an extreme endurance sport.

It's definitely relevant, but not exactly conclusive.

Perhaps as a mod, you have a access to the link I just posted (or can chat to a Bombers mod) and conclusively state that the beep test does indeed occur at AFL level.

Don't have access to the link, no.I don't see why it wouldn't occur. It's a pretty common test. Don't see why AFL clubs would be different.

 

[Kings Army]

Sorry I must have missed the part in this post where you addressed the moronic statement of Williams being the beneficiary of Buddy and Roughead?

Williams 2 best years came in the 1st 2 years of Franklin and Roughead joining the Hawks. Coincidence??

He was washed up at the end of 2009 - 13 games 16 goals - so what do Essendon do - give him a 3 year contact. I thought Laycocks 2 year deal at the end of 2008 was bad but this is getting close to being worse!!

I can understand you debating Williams V Cloke - no one in their right mind would choose Williams - but then again you think Richo is better than Carey - so really anything you post carries no weight. Stick to netball Jade.

 

[Kings Army]

Sorry I must have missed the part in this post where you addressed the moronic statement of Williams being the beneficiary of Buddy and Roughead?

And as for mornoic statments how about you take back your statment that Collingwood cannot win the 2010 Grand Final because they have too many deficiencies??

Netball time Jadey.

 

[Jade]

And as for mornoic statments how about you take back your statment that Collingwood cannot win the 2010 Grand Final because they have too many deficiencies??

Netball time Jadey.

Geez man, I said in twenty different posts that Collingwood can / can't win the flag in any given year.....

Find something better to do with your time....

 

[getgaff]

Two very different players but i'd take Cloke anyday of the week, and even more so on a match day. Williams best football is past him

 

[Number 10]

Essendon supporters did a bit better out of this than the St Kilda Lovett trade.
Suck it up boys and stop trying to justify it.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Wasn't Mark Williams delisted?

 

[bombermick]

Wasn't Mark Williams delisted?

Not sure if serious ...

 

[Donakebab]

John Williams ≠ Mark Williams

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/team/player-past.asp?id=1129#profile

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I would take Travis (bias perhaps) but he is 23 best contested mark in the competition plays CHF so 38 goals and 19 assists is fine for that spot. Could be better with improved kicking. Reminds me of Warren Tredrea whos kicking let him down somewhat in the early part of his career but improved alot by the time he was Captain of his premership winning side in 2004.

 

[power09]

i think you just said Cloke was the best contested mark in the comp

NNNNA HAH

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

i think you just said Cloke was the best contested mark in the comp

NNNNA HAH

well certainly the most stats for contested marks this season
and I suspect the highest average contested marks as well


1. Travis Cloke 66 contested marks
2. Jack Riewoldt 54 contested marks
3. James Podsiadly 51 contested marks
4. Brian Lake 48 conteted marks

its my opinion that he is the best contested mark in the comp but you can dispute that if you want

 

[robertg22]

i think you just said Cloke was the best contested mark in the comp

NNNNA HAH

Led the league, had 12 more than anyone else, it's not that much of a stretch surely.

 

[AG]

His bad goal kicking causes all the other facets of his game to be underrated. If Cloke could double his goal tally he'd be ranked with the best.

 

[jonbe54]

His bad goal kicking causes all the other facets of his game to be underrated. If Cloke could double his goal tally he'd be ranked with the best.

If Cloke could lift his goal kicking to 50% percent he could tear sides apart, he is still only 23 so has time but looking at his technique is painful and you wonder if its possible to tweak it enough to get meaningful improvement.

 

[Jade]

its my opinion that he is the best contested mark in the comp but you can dispute that if you want

And I choose to

Nick Rediwoldt is the best contested mark in the league. Was cruelled by injury in 2010 though.

If Cloke could lift his goal kicking to 50% percent he could tear sides apart, he is still only 23 so has time but looking at his technique is painful and you wonder if its possible to tweak it enough to get meaningful improvement.

Or he could lift his % to a higher level.... 50% isn't awesome....

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

And I choose to

Nick Rediwoldt is the best contested mark in the league. Was cruelled by injury in 2010 though.

Nicks a good choice he was injured this season and had 36 contested marks at 2.4 per game average. Perhaps this has been better previous seasons. I suspect that it would have been.
Cloke had 66 at 2.75 per game average this season.

I know stats don't tell a complete story and im not saying that Cloke is as good a Riewoldt but as contested marks go you could argue a case for both being right up there. Even last year Nick took the most marks in the competition, however J Brown still edged him out on contested marks. Riewoldt often leads into space and out works his opponents meaning that although he is a great contested mark he doesn't take as many as some other players.

 

[Smyth94]

If Cloke could kick for goal as good as M Williams then he would be the best player in the AFL.

 

[Jade]

If Cloke could kick for goal as good as M Williams then he would be the best player in the AFL.

I'd say that just about everything Cloke does Buddy does better - so nah....

 

[Smyth94]

I'd say that just about everything Cloke does Buddy does better - so nah....

You honestly think Buddy is a better overhead mark than Cloke?

Thinking back "best player in the AFL" was too far - top ten easily.

 

[AG]

Cloke is better at every type of marking than Franklin.

 

[Jade]

You honestly think Buddy is a better overhead mark than Cloke?

Nope. But Buddy is way quicker of the mark, way better at ground level, and certainly has the oft-used 'X-factor'.

And he has much more shots on goal despite being in a side unable to provide that ball as well as Collingwood could.

Buddy is a freak. Cloke is a decent forward with kicking issues.

Thinking back "best player in the AFL" was too far - top ten easily.

Have to disagree with you mate.

If he kicked as well as Williams he'd have kicked what sixty five-ish goals this year? Still well down on league leading.

Buddy, both Reidwoldts, Pavlich and Jonathon Brown are all better players - and that's just off the top of my head and only really forwards.

Start throwing in your Ablett's, Swan's, Sandilands and the like and Cloke is falling a whole lot further then tenth.

He's a decent forward who's reputation is grossly inflated by playing in a bloody good side.

 

[the distributer]

Nope. But Buddy is way quicker of the mark, way better at ground level, and certainly has the oft-used 'X-factor'.

And he has much more shots on goal despite being in a side unable to provide that ball as well as Collingwood could.

Buddy is a freak. Cloke is a decent forward with kicking issues.



Have to disagree with you mate.

If he kicked as well as Williams he'd have kicked what sixty five-ish goals this year? Still well down on league leading.

Buddy, both Reidwoldts, Pavlich and Jonathon Brown are all better players - and that's just off the top of my head and only really forwards.

Start throwing in your Ablett's, Swan's, Sandilands and the like and Cloke is falling a whole lot further then tenth.

He's a decent forward who's reputation is grossly inflated by playing in a bloody good side.

im not sure where he would rate on a league level at present, maybe top 50, mayby not, alls i know is that he is the best young CHF in the comp by a fair margin, "if" he could kick he "could" be a once in a generation type player.