Society/Culture Marco Deng. Is this type of thing becoming “normal” in Melbourne?

[Snake_Baker]

Because apparently these gangs defined by their race are a growing problem in Melbourne now. Probably that maybe.

According to what? The tabloid media?

 

[iameviljez]

I have read about the stories of African and/or Somalian gangs now frequenting Melbourne streets so has this just become a part of everyday life in Victoria these days?

No more than the Melbourne Mafia or skinheads or anything else.

It is reasonable to discuss the difficulties facing young black African men in the community, but there's so much disadvantage that they face, that most of us don't:

• They're poor
• Their parents speak next to no English
• Their parents usually don't have a University degree (the biggest determinant of whether you'll go on to higher education)
• They stick out like a sore thumb just walking down the street
• They are subject to some pretty appalling racism and typecasting
• Some of them have some pretty horrific trauma in their lives
• Some of them were thrown straight into our school system speaking next to no English
• Culture shock

But that's not the discussion being had. Instead, we have the Herald Sun, who take a photo of young men off Triple J Unearthed, give them a gang name and throw them inside the front page.

 

[iameviljez]

Honest question and I'm not trying to troll here, would you classify yourself inner or outer Melbourne? I ask as I work in the city and live outer so my experiences are are polar ends on a daily basis

Up till 2019, I used to work in Clayton and the CBD, lived in Reservoir and volunteered with Sudanese kids in Maidstone, and never ever saw any "African gang".

Though I suspect that the occasional pearl-clutching Karen may well see a few black kids at the shopping centre and think "African gang".

 

[Snake_Baker]

Up till 2019, I used to work in Clayton and the CBD, lived in Reservoir and volunteered with Sudanese kids in Maidstone, and never ever saw any "African gang".

Though I suspect that the occasional pearl-clutching Karen may well see a few black kids at the shopping centre and think "African gang".

The Sudanese population is currently slanted towards the male & 13-25 demographic.

Have a guess which demographic from all cultural backgrounds is highly represented in crime statistics?

 

[iameviljez]

The Sudanese population is currently slanted towards the male & 13-25 demographic.

Have a guess which demographic from all cultural backgrounds is highly represented in crime statistics?

Men, 13 to 25, and most likely not in any form of formal education.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Men, 13 to 25, and most likely not in any form of formal education.

Give this person a cigar!

You have now officially qualified as a criminologist.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

According to what? The tabloid media?

What media can you supply with more substantiated facts?

 

[Snake_Baker]

What media can you supply with more substantiated facts?

So you don't deny it? Cheers.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

So you don't deny it? Cheers.

You’re sticking with this as your substantial information? Cheers.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You’re sticking with this as your substantial information? Cheers.

Yep.

Mods, you may as well close this thread now.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

No more than the Melbourne Mafia or skinheads or anything else.

It is reasonable to discuss the difficulties facing young black African men in the community, but there's so much disadvantage that they face, that most of us don't:

• They're poor
• Their parents speak next to no English
• Their parents usually don't have a University degree (the biggest determinant of whether you'll go on to higher education)
• They stick out like a sore thumb just walking down the street
• They are subject to some pretty appalling racism and typecasting
• Some of them have some pretty horrific trauma in their lives
• Some of them were thrown straight into our school system speaking next to no English
• Culture shock

But that's not the discussion being had. Instead, we have the Herald Sun, who take a photo of young men off Triple J Unearthed, give them a gang name and throw them inside the front page.

A lot of assumption, speculation and guesswork in your post.
What are you using as a solid?

 

[iameviljez]

A lot of assumption, speculation and guesswork in your post.
What are you using as a solid?

I don't think that any of what I said was remotely controversial or worthy of challenge? What are you questioning in particular?

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Yep.

Mods, you may as well close this thread now.

Oh dear, so you’re all out of steam = call the mods.
Disappointing.

Why even come into the thread?

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

I don't think that any of what I said was remotely controversial or worthy of challenge? What are you questioning in particular?

Well you used skinheads and Mafia as comparisons for a start then put in “usually”, “some” & “some” again.
Are you comparing African gangs to more organized groups or claiming them to be complete “babes in the woods”..?

 

[iameviljez]

Well you used skinheads and Mafia as comparisons for a start then put in “usually”, “some” & “some” again.
Are you comparing African gangs to more organized groups or claiming them to be complete “babes in the woods”..?

Neither. I'm making that point that we go ballistic about so-called African gangs and highlight their existence as being reflective of the entire African-Australian population, but don't do the same with any other organisation. Nobody goes round looking at bikers, for example, and saying that we have a problem with white anglos.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Neither. I'm making that point that we go ballistic about so-called African gangs and highlight their existence as being reflective of the entire African-Australian population, but don't do the same with any other organisation. Nobody goes round looking at bikers, for example, and saying that we have a problem with white anglos.

Difference is bikers have been already accepted as part of the landscape and are not intruding on common suburban life.

This is just about Melbourne though and the seemingly growing problem of young, violent African gangs, not the national population of African Australians.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Oh dear, so you’re all out of steam = call the mods.
Disappointing.

Why even come into the thread?

Apologies.

Continue with the race baiting.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Apologies.

Continue with the race baiting.

Go away before your offend offends me, ok?

 

[iameviljez]

Difference is bikers have been already accepted as part of the landscape

As in we're used to them, yes

and are not intruding on common suburban life

Bullshit. They deal drugs and extort people for money, for God's sakes.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

As in we're used to them, yes


Bullshit. They deal drugs and extort people for money, for God's sakes.

Please don’t be purposely ignorant only to justify your point.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It's a law and order issue. There are dirtbags. Criminal dirtbags. Go after them like you would any similar criminal but be sure not to vilify entire ethnic groups for the actions of their more feckless youth.

This would be fine if police/courts etc weren't continually accused of persecuting minorities whenever one of their number gets arrested.

 

[Twoslabs]

Up till 2019, I used to work in Clayton and the CBD, lived in Reservoir and volunteered with Sudanese kids in Maidstone, and never ever saw any "African gang".

Though I suspect that the occasional pearl-clutching Karen may well see a few black kids at the shopping centre and think "African gang".

Okay well I live in Pakenham in the outer east and here in Cardinia and Casey there are definitely issues with assaults and robberies done in groups (very definition of a "gang") though I will say that home invasions have calmed down in the last 18 months.

You don't get "pearl-clutching Karens" out this way either, it's more the tracksuit wearing, chain smoking Shazzas

No more than the Melbourne Mafia or skinheads or anything else.

Okay I'm only 50 but I never recalled the Mafia or Skinheads pulling random home invasions or street robberies, any proof for this statement? Can't comment on the mafia but the neo nazi skins of the 80s onwards weren't pulling these types of crimes.

Neither. I'm making that point that we go ballistic about so-called African gangs and highlight their existence as being reflective of the entire African-Australian population, but don't do the same with any other organisation. Nobody goes round looking at bikers, for example, and saying that we have a problem with white anglos.

No we say we have a problem with bikers, much the way we say we have a problem with African street gangs. Neither group is representative of an entire community, also when you look at bikers many groups are now very "multi-cultural". Again in my suburb thanks to VCAT we have two 1%er OMCG's one is very "white" and the other very much mixed.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Okay well I live in Pakenham in the outer east and here in Cardinia and Casey there are definitely issues with assaults and robberies done in groups (very definition of a "gang") though I will say that home invasions have calmed down in the last 18 months.

You don't get "pearl-clutching Karens" out this way either, it's more the tracksuit wearing, chain smoking Shazzas



Okay I'm only 50 but I never recalled the Mafia or Skinheads pulling random home invasions or street robberies, any proof for this statement? Can't comment on the mafia but the neo nazi skins of the 80s onwards weren't pulling these types of crimes.



No we say we have a problem with bikers, much the way we say we have a problem with African street gangs. Neither group is representative of an entire community, also when you look at bikers many groups are now very "multi-cultural". Again in my suburb thanks to VCAT we have two 1%er OMCG's one is very "white" and the other very much mixed.

The crimes are quite different though, aren't they? Bikers, whether multicultural or not, are into drug-related crimes, home invasions included, and also are older, whereas gangs are youngsters, even teenagers, who are into house breaking, car stealing and fighting with each other.

 

[iameviljez]

Okay I'm only 50 but I never recalled the Mafia or Skinheads pulling random home invasions or street robberies, any proof for this statement?

You're correct, I didn't mean to infer that. I'm more so suggesting that illegal activity for black African gangs is used to tar all Africans with the same brush, but it's not the same for other gangs performing illegal activity.

 

[Twoslabs]

The crimes are quite different though, aren't they? Bikers, whether multicultural or not, are into drug-related crimes, home invasions included, and also are older, whereas gangs are youngsters, even teenagers, who are into house breaking, car stealing and fighting with each other.

Bikies running drugs 100%, home invasions not so much. You'll see out this way the OMCGs are running a lot of legitimate businesses so apart from the drugs a lot of the random crime by them has gone. My gut though says they're more like the Fagan figures that actually direct a lot of street crime especially where guns appear as let's be honest where are the street gangs going to source serious weaponry

The "youth" gangs range from 15-25 so there used to be a lot of home invasions, these days it's more stree robbery and the swarm raids on retail premises.