10 years ago.
MCG vs non-MCG tenants
- Thread starter Rotayjay
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hawkman
Hall of Famer
I think it is more that his comment said that Geelong were the only team to not get home finals. The Marvel tenants make that comment incorrect
Ah - thank you. Took me a while, but I've got it now. Cheers.
Really dont get what 4 games at the G when it is barely half full, compared to 2 or 3, will do to help prepare for a GF?
And surely you wouldnt give up a home advantage game for it.
Collingwood used to enjoy a much bigger crowd advantage at Vic Park, when it was what 30k fans crammed in. 29k Pies and barely 1k of brave (crazy) oppo fans who went along.
Completely different to a G blockbuster, where in a 80k crowd it might be what 45K Pies, 30K oppo and 5k neutrals.
You might be getting me confused with Freshwater. In my opinion, Geelong home finals at the MCG are true home finals, due to the fact Geelong plays home games there throughout the H&A season. Against interstate/Marvel only tenants it's a true home advantage, whilst against other MCG tenants it's more or less neutral (in the same way that an Essendon vs Collingwood final would be neutral despite Collingwood playing more home and away games at the G through the season). It's significantly different to the Bulldogs, North or St Kilda being forced to play finals there when those clubs are given no more than 2 away games per year at the MCG.
That's my opinion on the matter. I know also that Geelong probably prefer to play 11 games at Kardinia Park (plus finals), if they did then the MCG would be a purely away venue as it is for the 3 clubs I mention above.
I agree that Marvel tenants are dudded when it comes to finals, but saying the MCG is a true home final is laughable.
You mean we host St Kilda or the Dogs, or even a non-Vic side, at the MCG in order to get a minimum 3 games a year on the most important venue (so long as that rubbish grand final contract remains in place)? Abso*******lutely.
- May 3, 2007
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Again your a crows supporter. Next time the crows make a grand final, do you want an opponent that is a regular tenant at the MCG or a non vic club?
Why is 3 games a minimum?
What does 3 games get you that 2 doesnt?
And during H&A why would you give up home ground advantage to play at a neutral venue?
We rarely get two, but 3-4 seems a decent amount to get accustomed to a ground.
Against a non-Vic team, yes, there is still the travel advantage so not all advantage is lost.
Against another smaller Docklands tenant it would be swapping one neutral venue for another, so why not get time on the ground that counts.
I just think this is people looking for excuses.
A game in June in front of 30k doesnt help get a player ready for a GF.
GF experience helps prepare for a GF, this is why the Hawks won 3 on the trot...they were a great team that already played and lost a GF.
North already put themselves on the backfoot by giving themselves a travel disadvantage with "home" games outside of Melbourne. Why further disadvantage North in H&A?
You have to actually win enough games in H&A to make finals first.
Getting one extra random North v Saints game at the G wont suddenly provide an advantage if North make a GF.
Yes, it only helps if you make finals. Which is many years away, but come finals time experience at a finals venue does help.
And I'm not a fan of the Hobart deal, haven't been since the start. Not with either my North or Tasmanian hats on.
- May 13, 2014
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Finals played at Marvel
2000 - Hawthorn defeated Geelong in an elimination final.
2001 - Hawthorn defeated Sydney in an elimination final
2002 - Essendon defeated West Coast in an elimination final
2005 - North Melbourne lost to Port Adelaide in an elimination final
2007 - Hawthorn defeated Adelaide in an elimination final
2011 - St Kilda lost to Sydney in an elimination final
2000 - Hawthorn defeated Geelong in an elimination final.
2001 - Hawthorn defeated Sydney in an elimination final
2002 - Essendon defeated West Coast in an elimination final
2005 - North Melbourne lost to Port Adelaide in an elimination final
2007 - Hawthorn defeated Adelaide in an elimination final
2011 - St Kilda lost to Sydney in an elimination final
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Hawks home finals there are odd? Wasn’t part of their moving out of Waverley deal being an MCG tenant?
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Also I remember that North/Port final. 25k crowd. And they wonder why people wanted them moved north at the time. And look at their average home crowds and average crowds in general the last 2 years…the Tassie stand alone license may have saved them but something has to give.
Out of the small 3 Melbourne sides and I’m talking strictly support and attendance - membership doesn’t matter, many clubs give away memberships now, it’s how many roll up (Roos, Dogs, Saints)
They were probably level with the Doggies on attendances for a while but they’ve gone streets ahead. The dogs have picked up supporters. They have a geographical base.
The Saints are leaps and bounds ahead on the back of not much, and have a latent bandwagon the Roos don’t.
Hawks have dropped back to 6th on attendances recently, they just seem to be a club whose turn out fluctuates depending on form.
The dees have jumped them IMO into 5th, even though their home a average isn’t tops, they’re helped out by being an almost exclusively ‘G side, with the Queens Birthday and Anzac eve to boost attendance overall.
Above them you probably have Essendon and Carlton neck and neck on attendances - they both need to get out of Marvel, though Essendon get a top financial deal there and we don’t.
Top rung Collingwood and Richmond, for obvious reasons. If Essendon and Carlton (Particularly if Carlton can cut loose like we want to in 2025 to a 9/2 split while ridding ourselves of a financial millstone, while Essendon get a financial boom at the dome) - if both clubs negotiated their way to the G it would be a pretty even top ‘big 4’ in terms of crowds. As I said, ‘Big 4’ still exists in terms of crowds, sadly, not performances for some of us.
I’ve excluded Geelong, they are a different case not relevant to this conversation.
Typed this out to show how far behind North are in terms of the other smaller clubs and particular the bigger clubs. There hasn’t been a bigger gap since the last years of Fitzroy. In fact attendance percentage wise it is similar.
How can North attract more fans? I feel like they’ve been left streets behind the rest of the ‘small 3’.
They will need a second base once Tassie is gone. Where could they sell 3 games a year for as much as Tassie stumped up?
Yes they are debt free, but asset and facility wise they are moribund. Income streams? Has anything come online since their 3 failed pokies ventures they tried to spin as a humanitarian move rather than a humiliation?
Out of the small 3 Melbourne sides and I’m talking strictly support and attendance - membership doesn’t matter, many clubs give away memberships now, it’s how many roll up (Roos, Dogs, Saints)
They were probably level with the Doggies on attendances for a while but they’ve gone streets ahead. The dogs have picked up supporters. They have a geographical base.
The Saints are leaps and bounds ahead on the back of not much, and have a latent bandwagon the Roos don’t.
Hawks have dropped back to 6th on attendances recently, they just seem to be a club whose turn out fluctuates depending on form.
The dees have jumped them IMO into 5th, even though their home a average isn’t tops, they’re helped out by being an almost exclusively ‘G side, with the Queens Birthday and Anzac eve to boost attendance overall.
Above them you probably have Essendon and Carlton neck and neck on attendances - they both need to get out of Marvel, though Essendon get a top financial deal there and we don’t.
Top rung Collingwood and Richmond, for obvious reasons. If Essendon and Carlton (Particularly if Carlton can cut loose like we want to in 2025 to a 9/2 split while ridding ourselves of a financial millstone, while Essendon get a financial boom at the dome) - if both clubs negotiated their way to the G it would be a pretty even top ‘big 4’ in terms of crowds. As I said, ‘Big 4’ still exists in terms of crowds, sadly, not performances for some of us.
I’ve excluded Geelong, they are a different case not relevant to this conversation.
Typed this out to show how far behind North are in terms of the other smaller clubs and particular the bigger clubs. There hasn’t been a bigger gap since the last years of Fitzroy. In fact attendance percentage wise it is similar.
How can North attract more fans? I feel like they’ve been left streets behind the rest of the ‘small 3’.
They will need a second base once Tassie is gone. Where could they sell 3 games a year for as much as Tassie stumped up?
Yes they are debt free, but asset and facility wise they are moribund. Income streams? Has anything come online since their 3 failed pokies ventures they tried to spin as a humanitarian move rather than a humiliation?
catters05
Norm Smith Medallist
Melbourne 3rd stadium, up to 30k and North will be fine. Egate or whatever it was going to be. Would be a great Saturday arvo stadium.
As AFL own Marvel, use it to make additional money out of other events rather then waste it on 20-25k afl crowds.
- Aug 17, 2006
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It's a home final when we play there against a non-Victorian team: silly to pretend otherwise and it's happened quite a few times over the past 15+ years, including losses against Fremantle in 2012 and Sydney in 2016.
Similarly, it's a bit difficult to call it a home final when Geelong's finished higher on the ladder and ends up going against one of the main MCG tenants and the crowd support is probably around 30/70 the other way.
But ultimately, barring a freak set of circumstances like the first week of the 2013 finals, it's unlikely that it will ever change. If we're up against Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood, any Melbourne team probably, it's going to be played at the MCG if it's available. I don't recall it ever being a contentious issue prior to 2013 (in fairness, that's also the year that the light towers were installed), we just got on with it. Anyone, anywhere, anytime and all that.
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- Apr 18, 2005
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If you played Collingwood at the G as a preferred game, you’d always get good numbers. The only way non Vic sides can get used to the G is to just want to play there.
- Thread starter
- #47
I would rather a non-Victorian club because I think there is a home state and home ground advantage, but the record shows that playing an MCG tenant on grand final day is not a near-insurmountable obstacle.
Agree with the 3 stadium for melbouren, they should really decrease the mcg capacity to 85k considering the demand just isnt their for 100k, looks absolute trash when their are crowds of 30k and below
- Aug 17, 2006
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It's a difficult one - where would it be located? I feel like a Princes Park upgrade would be the logical choice, but it would need to be pretty much as central as the MCG and Marvel are, otherwise you're not going to get 30,000 there anyway, if you stick it out in Bundoora or Clayton or somewhere. A 20-25,000 crowd at the MCG or Marvel would become 10,000 pretty quickly at another Waverley.
I feel like it's a nice to have, difficult to justify opening the public purse for what would immediately and permanently be the Caribou Cup of Melbourne football stadiums. I'd prefer the money and the land be used for something else. Hard to imagine it would be a versatile venue that picks up other big sports events and concerts either with AAMI Park the default option for any other football code and a 30,000 seat capacity and GMHBA a regular venue for T20 cricket.
- Thread starter
- #50
I couldn't think of a worse idea for the stadium. While getting a grand final ticket is difficult, I don't think we need to make it even moreso. You can bet that if the MCG capacity permanently dropped, the MCC/corporate/neutrals sections would remain the same and competing club members would get fewer seats.
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