Prediction Michael Barlow

[Bicks]

What a load of crap.

If anything Lyons was one of our midfielders who actually showed class, one of our few mids who could actually hit a target up forward and finished with 18 goals.

Those players are classy but should be replacing Thompson, Mackay and Douglas who as senior players let us down. Thommo is understandable given his age but the others should be embarrassed.

Douglas just when we needed him to stand up couldn't, tell me why was Lyons preferred in the midfield?

How many of those goals resulted when he was playing "permanent" midfield??
Off course he kicked goals, mostly playing in a half forward role at the time, I daresay if the other mids spent as much time "permanent" forward they would have 'rattled' the scoreboard more too.

 

[baldandbroke]

2015 Douglas mainly played in the middle, as a balanced inside/outside mid. And he wasn't too bad, either! 70% DE with 4 more kicks than handballs, more I50's and the same amount of clearances per game. If Dougie can get back to 2015 form, I don't see why not. Thing is, I don't know if he can do that at age 30.

Sorry, missed the "2015". Agree. He has not been the same since the gonad incident :-(

We can't go into 2017 thinking that things can work with only three inside midfielders in the best 22. We may well try CC and Atkins in the middle, but at this stage Atkins is too light-bodied to consistently win clearances, and CC, IMO, works best as a pressuring, yet offensively dangerous outside mid who can sometimes burst through a stoppage and come out with the ball at the other end - not a clearance winner. Smith could well be the type who is able to get his hands on the footy at a stoppage and break away with a quick first few steps - but again, his best work is done on the outside. Preferably, we need inside mids with a point of difference (i.e. not just tough coal-face players), such as Greenwood, or Venables/SPP if we draft them, but they're not going to make any consistently outstanding impact in 2017.

Will be interesting to see where it ends up landing. I want to believe it will be ground breaking and set a new standard ... I end up thinking it will be Douglas and Thommo.

 

[Danger in Texas]

How many of those goals resulted when he was playing "permanent" midfield??
Off course he kicked goals, mostly playing in a half forward role at the time, I daresay if the other mids spent as much time "permanent" forward they would have 'rattled' the scoreboard more too.

Well this logic pretty much well and truly counts out CEY, as in the two games he played he pretty much did the same, yet couldn't make as big an impact as Lyons.

 

[Vader]

Lyons failed to impress the coaches in the specific role they gave him... so they continued to play him in that same role for majority of the season anyway?
That doesn't make much sense.

Like I said.. it was a "fair question" that headache1 posed.

It was probably more a case of Lyons coming in and getting the job done to an adequate level. With nobody in the SANFL pushing him out, the position was his until the end of the season (when longer term decisions are/were made).

They may also have figured that Douglas on the HFF and Lyons in the midfield was a better option than the reverse. Consider the following (numbers are for illustrative purposes only):
Douglas in midfield = 8, Lyons in midfield = 7.
Douglas on HFF = 6. Lyons on HFF = 3.

Thus:
D-mid + L-HFF = 11
D-HFF + L-mid = 13

Individually, Douglas is better than Lyons in the middle, and Douglas is better in the middle than the HFF. However, the team is better overall with Lyons in the middle and Douglas on the HFF.

Just another theory. Not claiming either of these suggestions are fact.

 

[Bicks]

Well this logic pretty much well and truly counts out CEY, as in the two games he played he pretty much did the same, yet couldn't make as big an impact as Lyons.

See this is where we disagree, I'm of the opinion if CEY is afforded the same opportunities in 2017 as Lyons in 2016 I cannot see how he can't deliver similar outcomes, perhaps even better. Only one way to find out, play him........Pyke played Lyons consistently yet he obviously didn't impress the person he most needed to clearly or he'd have been retained?

 

[Elite Crow]

How many of those goals resulted when he was playing "permanent" midfield??
Off course he kicked goals, mostly playing in a half forward role at the time, I daresay if the other mids spent as much time "permanent" forward they would have 'rattled' the scoreboard more too.

He played a fair chunk in the middle though.

He averaged the same number of goals as Douglas despite a lot more time in the middle.

He averaged more score involvements, more metres gained, more contested possessions, the list goes on.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Douglas in midfield = 8, Lyons in midfield = 7.
Douglas on HFF = 6. Lyons on HFF = 3.

I would not say that Douglas is better than Lyons on a HFF. Douglas was quite poor off a HFF this year.

 

[Elite Crow]

Like I said.. it was a "fair question" that headache1 posed.

It was probably more a case of Lyons coming in and getting the job done to an adequate level. With nobody in the SANFL pushing him out, the position was his until the end of the season (when longer term decisions are/were made).

They may also have figured that Douglas on the HFF and Lyons in the midfield was a better option than the reverse. Consider the following (numbers are for illustrative purposes only):
Douglas in midfield = 8, Lyons in midfield = 7.
Douglas on HFF = 6. Lyons on HFF = 3.

Thus:
D-mid + L-HFF = 11
D-HFF + L-mid = 13

Individually, Douglas is better than Lyons in the middle, and Douglas is better in the middle than the HFF. However, the team is better overall with Lyons in the middle and Douglas on the HFF.

Just another theory. Not claiming either of these suggestions are fact.

It's a stupid theory.

 

[Danger in Texas]

See this is where we disagree, I'm of the opinion if CEY is afforded the same opportunities in 2017 as Lyons in 2016 I cannot see how he can't deliver similar outcomes, perhaps even better. Only one way to find out, play him........Pyke played Lyons consistently yet he obviously didn't impress the person he most needed to clearly or he'd have been retained?

The fact he got only 18 disposals playing a similar role to Lyons against Brisbane (of all teams) suggests to me he won't be as impactful. And that's without mentioning the 13 disposals against WCE. Now, he might be better with consistent opportunities, but I'm doubting it.

 

[Vader]

See this is where we disagree, I'm of the opinion if CEY is afforded the same opportunities in 2017 as Lyons in 2016 I cannot see how he can't deliver similar outcomes, perhaps even better. Only one way to find out, play him........Pyke played Lyons consistently yet he obviously didn't impress the person he most needed to clearly or he'd have been retained?

Do you not see the obvious implications?

Lyons didn't impress Pyke. I think that's a fair conclusion to draw from post-season events. Lyons was clearly preferred, ahead of CEY, when it came to the weekly selections. So what does that say about how much CEY has impressed Pyke?

 

[Bicks]

Do you not see the obvious implications?

Lyons didn't impress Pyke. I think that's a fair conclusion to draw from post-season events. Lyons was clearly preferred, ahead of CEY, when it came to the weekly selections. So what does that say about how much CEY has impressed Pyke?

What I do see is CEY is still on our list albeit perhaps for only 1 more season....Lyons is not on our list.....too obvious for you?

 

[ad victoriam]

All, bar Wigg, play a different role to Lyons. They're outside (or outside-leaning) players, not inside-leaning types.

Have a couple of doubts on Wigg at this stage, but I'm not going to count him out by any means. His boot is glorious. Still, 2017 Wigg won't be an improvement on 2016 Lyons.

All of them can play in Lyons Position, on the HFF, This allow other to move inside improving the best 22. Don't forget Atkins and Douglas can play as inside mids and offer more to the team at stoppages,
2017 Wigg has the ability to be better than 2016 or 2017 Lyons. Wigg has a couple of big advantages over Lyons, Speed and Kicking, he will get about 20 plus disposals, but he will be more damaging.
And to be Honest don't rule out Gore or a pick 13 getting 15 plus games a Jarred Berry type of player will get game next year.

After both Finals seasons finished, I was expecting Lyons to struggle to get a games for us in 2017, Lyons moving was the best thing for Lyons.

 

[Danger in Texas]

What I do see is CEY is still on our list albeit perhaps for only 1 more season....Lyons is not on our list.....too obvious for you?

Because he had something called a contract, that's why.

And before you say 'we could still have traded him', we were never going to trade both him and Lyons, considering the immense lack of inside mid depth we have.

 

[Danger in Texas]

All of them can play in Lyons Position, on the HFF, This allow other to move inside improving the best 22. Don't forget Atkins and Douglas can play as inside mids and offer more to the team at stoppages,
2017 Wigg has the ability to be better than 2016 or 2017 Lyons. Wigg has a couple of big advantages over Lyons, Speed and Kicking, he will get about 20 plus disposals, but he will be more damaging.
And to be Honest don't rule out Gore or a pick 13 getting 15 plus games a Jarred Berry type of player will get game next year.

After both Finals seasons finished, I was expecting Lyons to struggle to get a games for us in 2017, Lyons moving was the best thing for Lyons.

Lyons was not a pure HFF this year. A replacement for Lyons would also need to be able to play as an inside mid. You're making an assumption that Douglas will get back to his form of old at age 30, and that Rat will become able to win more contested possessions than only 6.5 a game.

I'm not counting my chickens on Wigg. Yes, he has a laser boot, and can win the ball inside, but he's also small, and doesn't seem to have the absolute best speed to me? Mind you, I just got an image of Sam Mitchell in my head.

I'm certainly not ruling out Gore yet, I'm waiting for him to put on some more muscle over the preseason (which should allow him to make a consistent impact) before making a judgement. If we get Berry, he should be able to play 13-15 games, but he won't consistently get 20 disposals a game in his first year (i.e. what Lyons did this year). Besides, if we get Venables or SPP instead, they'll make even less of a consistent impact (although they both have very high ceilings).

 

[Bicks]

Because he had something called a contract, that's why.

And before you say 'we could still have traded him', we were never going to trade both him and Lyons, considering the immense lack of inside mid depth we have.

I will go on record now if we take any of Sam Powell Pepper, Daniel Venables, Jarrod Berry, Griffin Logue or Jordan Galluci with Pick 13 they will play AFL in 2017, hell even some of the guys that may be available at 43 like Poholke, Drew, Ronke, Begley, Graham etc would be a chance without even factoring in mature age guys like Gibbons or Jye Bolton and several other possibilities.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Back on topic...So do we still like our chances at getting Barlow as a finals contender or do gold coast have an offer to good to refuse.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Back on topic...So do we still like our chances at getting Barlow as a finals contender or do gold coast have an offer to good to refuse.

Mate just txt me from Perth saying that it has been reported over there that the deal with AFC fell over however he went on and said that the source is a bit hit and miss

 

[ad victoriam]

Lyons was not a pure HFF this year. A replacement for Lyons would also need to be able to play as an inside mid. You're making an assumption that Douglas will get back to his form of old at age 30, and that Rat will become able to win more contested possessions than only 6.5 a game.

I'm not counting my chickens on Wigg. Yes, he has a laser boot, and can win the ball inside, but he's also small, and doesn't seem to have the absolute best speed to me? Mind you, I just got an image of Sam Mitchell in my head.

I'm certainly not ruling out Gore yet, I'm waiting for him to put on some more muscle over the preseason (which should allow him to make a consistent impact) before making a judgement. If we get Berry, he should be able to play 13-15 games, but he won't consistently get 20 disposals a game in his first year (i.e. what Lyons did this year). Besides, if we get Venables or SPP instead, they'll make even less of a consistent impact (although they both have very high ceilings).

Why must a replacement play the same game, Menzel moves into the role basically replacing Douglas or Atkins who spend more time in the middle, Milera play wing allowing Hampton time in the middle, Same as CC, Seedsman, Doedee play Half back allowing Smith or Laird to play in the middle. Don't fall into the trap that we must replace a player 1 for 1.
Also Berry type player will average more than 20 per game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Mate just txt me from Perth saying that it has been reported over there that the deal with AFC fell over however he went on and said that the source is a bit hit and miss

Sounds like gold coast are offering more.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I will go on record now if we take any of Sam Powell Pepper, Daniel Venables, Jarrod Berry, Griffin Logue or Jordan Galluci with Pick 13 they will play AFL in 2017, hell even some of the guys that may be available at 43 like Poholke, Drew, Ronke, Begley, Graham etc would be a chance without even factoring in mature age guys like Gibbons or Jye Bolton and several other possibilities.

I reckon they will too - but will it be the same impact as Lyons gave this year? I am betting that we pick up a Gibbons or Bolton-type, though.

 

[Bicks]

Lyons was not a pure HFF this year. A replacement for Lyons would also need to be able to play as an inside mid. You're making an assumption that Douglas will get back to his form of old at age 30, and that Rat will become able to win more contested possessions than only 6.5 a game.

I'm not counting my chickens on Wigg. Yes, he has a laser boot, and can win the ball inside, but he's also small, and doesn't seem to have the absolute best speed to me? Mind you, I just got an image of Sam Mitchell in my head.

I'm certainly not ruling out Gore yet, I'm waiting for him to put on some more muscle over the preseason (which should allow him to make a consistent impact) before making a judgement. If we get Berry, he should be able to play 13-15 games, but he won't consistently get 20 disposals a game in his first year (i.e. what Lyons did this year). Besides, if we get Venables or SPP instead, they'll make even less of a consistent impact (although they both have very high ceilings).

I'd wager SPP is maybe even more ready for AFL than Berry as I believe Galluci would be who I haven't discounted as a possible for us, Venables in an AFL system I think will come to hand sooner than you think....one thing I'm sure of is all will be superior AFL footballers to Lyons and quite quickly too.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I'd wager SPP is maybe even more ready for AFL than Berry as I believe Galluci would be who I haven't discounted as a possible for us, Venables in an AFL system I think will come to hand sooner than you think....one thing I'm sure of is all will be superior AFL footballers to Lyons and quite quickly too.

SPP isn't a massive accumulator at this stage, though? Berry could well put in some good performances, but I reckon he needs to put on a bit of bulk first before we see consistency from him. Venables really needs to develop his endurance, which will take a couple of pre-seasons... but once he does it, he'll be an utter gun. And yes, all will be better than Lyons, I agree.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Why must a replacement play the same game, Menzel moves into the role basically replacing Douglas or Atkins who spend more time in the middle, Milera play wing allowing Hampton time in the middle, Same as CC, Seedsman, Doedee play Half back allowing Smith or Laird to play in the middle. Don't fall into the trap that we must replace a player 1 for 1.
Also Berry type player will average more than 20 per game.

I've already voiced my concerns on Douglas and Atkins. Hampton will not be an inside mid at AFL level. I'd definitely bet Laird will not be moved from the back half. Smith I feel works best on the outside, although he could make for a good inside player, considering he played that role at U18 level.
Berry will be good, but he will NOT average 20 disposals a game next year, only Darcy Parish did that this year out of the first-year players when he was forced to be a main option in a severely lacking Essendon midfield.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Mate just txt me from Perth saying that it has been reported over there that the deal with AFC fell over however he went on and said that the source is a bit hit and miss

Gold coast board reporting that the guy who tweeted the photo overheard Barlow say he is moving there on Friday.

 

[Danger in Texas]

I feel I've made this thread about draftees, Lyons, list balance, whether we're good enough or not next year - basically about everything but Barlow. Sorry mods