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NAB cup - Soft Win?

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Many of the nay sayers, trollers, whatever you want to call them have, in light of our pre-season victory, rubbished as as having played soft opposition (non were finalists in 2006) with undermanned teams.

On SEN this AM Alistair Clkarkson was being interviewed, and was asked about whether Hawthorn would like to have progressed further in the NAB cup.
His answer lead me to thinking about this thread.

Apart from saying yes, they would like to have won, he went on to talk about the value of winning for a young team, and that building winning form, and winning culture is very very important.

He suggested that the more senior teams, and those likely to be finalists in 2007 don't push to hard this early because the don't want to burn out in July/August, but for younger sides that doesn't matter as much and you take wins were you can.

My point (if you're still reading this far down), is that far from having an easy run in the NAB cup, if last years finalists are not really bothered with it, then surely playing four, young, bottom 8 sides is a tougher contest at this time of year than playing WCE, Sydney or Crows, who really don't care. The exception is Freo who IMO were going for the million $.
The fact is that each winner in the first round of the NAB cup was placed lower at the end of the H&A last year than their opposition.

If we beat WCE, Sydney - they haven't got their full side in,
If we beat the Hawks, Dons, Roos, Lions - they aren't top 8 sides etc.

I think our form is better than people give us credit for, and they are hoping that its another 2005.

Its not blind optimism, its logical reasoning. Thoughts?
 
the 4 teams Carlton beat in the NAB Cup are 4 teams the Blues should expect to beat in the 2007 regular season. Being competitive and beating other teams around our level is more important for the future then whether or not we won the cup.

Carlton should expect to beat Essendon, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Brisbane, Collingwood & Richmond, and do well against Port, and be v competitive against Geelong and Melbourne.
 
You can only beat the teams that you come up against, and like you said BB, all of our opponents were going at full tilt to try and win the NAB Cup. From this point of view, our wins were very pleasing.

As far as burning out goes, i'm not so sure about this. I don't think plaing an extra couple of games in March is going to do that, however, if you have a look at someone like Nick Stevens who is flying at the moment, will he still be at the same level in July, or will he have dropped a bit as it is very hard to maintain that sort of level right throughout the season.
 
We beat the teams we played, that's what it comes down to. You can only play against the teams your opponent puts on the park.

Who cares, a win is a win. Sure, it doesn't get us 4 points, but it is an invaluable experience for our younger players. A win like that will do them well-it's worth about 5 regular season games.
 

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We beat the teams we played, that's what it comes down to. You can only play against the teams your opponent puts on the park.

Who cares, a win is a win. Sure, it doesn't get us 4 points, but it is an invaluable experience for our younger players. A win like that will do them well-it's worth about 5 regular season games.

Didn't I just say that J? :p
 
My point (if you're still reading this far down), is that far from having an easy run in the NAB cup, if last years finalists are not really bothered with it, then surely playing four, young, bottom 8 sides is a tougher contest at this time of year than playing WCE, Sydney or Crows, who really don't care.

Yes! Very sound reasoning.

We're not aiming for the flag, we're trying to learn how to win and you learn by doing.
 
As far as burning out goes, i'm not so sure about this. I don't think plaing an extra couple of games in March is going to do that, however, if you have a look at someone like Nick Stevens who is flying at the moment, will he still be at the same level in July, or will he have dropped a bit as it is very hard to maintain that sort of level right throughout the season.

Its not so much burn out (probably used the wrong term there), but its a phenomenon in elite sports called periodisation.

Their fitness regimes are so finely tuned that they will want to peak for the biggest contest (i.e. end of the year/finals).
We have seen in the last couple of years the older teams, Syndey in particular, start very slowly, winning 50% and seeming like they are not "on". Then, come mid season they switch on and away they go, peaking for the finals. IMO WCE did this last year, as did Adelaide. Not sure Freo have twigged to this yet - we'll see.

For the younger teams they are not worried about running out of puff so they go at it form the outset. Much like the pies last year, then run out of steam towards then end (?Tigers every year :D )
 
The exception is Freo who IMO were going for the million $.

I think that the Doggies were also going for the $1M bonus and Brisbane did very well to knock them out.

Thefour teams that we beat to win the cup, plus Port and ourselves, were the bottom 6 tems on last year's ladder, but I'm 100% in agreement with you that if the better sides are more focussed on September and therefore aren't fielding very strong sides, then as far as NAB Cup goes, the sides to beat are the previous season's cellar dwellars.

More to the point, after our many close losses last year, how many times did we hear Denis lament about our young inexperienced list simply 'not being experienced at winning' and 'not yet learning how to win'? In light of this being a main area of concern for us last year, I would say this NAB cup is exactly what the doctor ordered!

And I'm sick to death of the 2005 comparisons, that was the false dawn, this is the real deal! Two words: YOUTH and DEPTH

GO BLUES!
 
Sounds to me like a new word for tapering.
I guess clubs have been doing this for some time now, by not peaking to early in the season, but being able to maintain some sort of form so they can have enough wins by say half way when they really crank it up.
 
Many of the nay sayers, trollers, whatever you want to call them have, in light of our pre-season victory, rubbished as as having played soft opposition (non were finalists in 2006) with undermanned teams.
They all reckon we had an obviously easy run, but none of them had money on us at $26. Money tallks, bull**** walks.
 

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the 1mill is enough to make teams try hard enough i would believe , its not our fault we played hawtorn essendon kangaroos and brisban , the fact that we beat them was good enough we dont choose who we play
 
One thing it does show is that irrespective of whether the top 4 teams were trying or not it that our kids are the equal of any other in the league. I'm sure all the kids playing for WC and Sydney were trying their guts out to hopefully get a spot in the 22 come round 1.

We also beat 4 teams that wanted to win very much, both to benefit their own kids and boost confidence after poor years last year. The combacks we survived illustrate the determination of the opposition. Winning four a row against even the bottom teams in the league is a very good effort IMO.

Sure we didn' beat full strength top-4 sides, but who rarely cares as winning four in a row against these teams would be thoroughly unrealistic (although I hope we knock off 1 or 2 during the season proper). It doesn't detract from what our young group of kids has done.
 
Sounds to me like a new word for tapering.
I guess clubs have been doing this for some time now, by not peaking to early in the season, but being able to maintain some sort of form so they can have enough wins by say half way when they really crank it up.

Yeah, its been used for a very long time in sports like swimming, athletics etc, where you have a defined competition period, and everything leads up to that. How you get everyone up and running for 22+ weeks is still being worked out.
Normally peak fitness lasts for about 3 weeks, so AFL guys have to keep topping up during the year, hence WCE flat spot at the 2/3 mark last year (lucky us, almost), and Adleaide unable to pull out of their flat spot.
 
Yeah, its been used for a very long time in sports like swimming, athletics etc, where you have a defined competition period, and everything leads up to that. How you get everyone up and running for 22+ weeks is still being worked out.Normally peak fitness lasts for about 3 weeks, so AFL guys have to keep topping up during the year, hence WCE flat spot at the 2/3 mark last year (lucky us, almost), and Adleaide unable to pull out of their flat spot.

I dare say it would be nigh on impossible for a team/club to up and running for 22+ weeks.
 
I dare say it would be nigh on impossible for a team/club to up and running for 22+ weeks.

True, hence the slow starts.

I can see with expanded midfield rotations key players being "rested" in order to then pick back up in time for the season. I.e. second stringers get going early in the year (Blackers, Grigg, ?? more depth needed), while Murph, Gibbs, Simmo are sitting back a little, then into Rounds 7-10 the first liners, having just upped their training levels to get their peak fitness then take over and dominaten hoping to last out the season.

Sydney tend to hit their straps around round 8ish IIRC.

We have WCE early in Subi - could be an upset for this reason and also we tend to travel O.K. over there (despite few wins recently)
 
I dare say it would be nigh on impossible for a team/club to up and running for 22+ weeks.

there was this team in '95...i seem to remember something special about them....
 

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Many of the nay sayers, trollers, whatever you want to call them have, in light of our pre-season victory, rubbished as as having played soft opposition (non were finalists in 2006) with undermanned teams.

On SEN this AM Alistair Clkarkson was being interviewed, and was asked about whether Hawthorn would like to have progressed further in the NAB cup.
His answer lead me to thinking about this thread.

Apart from saying yes, they would like to have won, he went on to talk about the value of winning for a young team, and that building winning form, and winning culture is very very important.

He suggested that the more senior teams, and those likely to be finalists in 2007 don't push to hard this early because the don't want to burn out in July/August, but for younger sides that doesn't matter as much and you take wins were you can.

My point (if you're still reading this far down), is that far from having an easy run in the NAB cup, if last years finalists are not really bothered with it, then surely playing four, young, bottom 8 sides is a tougher contest at this time of year than playing WCE, Sydney or Crows, who really don't care. The exception is Freo who IMO were going for the million $.
The fact is that each winner in the first round of the NAB cup was placed lower at the end of the H&A last year than their opposition.

If we beat WCE, Sydney - they haven't got their full side in,
If we beat the Hawks, Dons, Roos, Lions - they aren't top 8 sides etc.

I think our form is better than people give us credit for, and they are hoping that its another 2005.

Its not blind optimism, its logical reasoning. Thoughts?

:) I agree with you, a lot of people/other clubs can't stand the thought of Carlton being back on top again. Make no mistake that is where we are now headed. Just look at what happened after the game on Saturday night. Muted celebrations, everyone home by 1am and, everyone at the recovery session early next morning.

Who organised this, not the coaching staff, no, the playing group itself. This group means business and the other clubs better watch out!

It was interesting to read the media before and after each of our matches. Before each match Essendon, Hawthorn etc were primed to win with very good sides being fielded. However, after they lost, the all had players out and were really concentrating on round 1.

The simple fact is that Carlton played 4 sides 3 of whom beat us last year and Essendon who we beat and had a draw with.

This win has nothing in commom with 2005 other than the two teams were wearing Carlton jumpers. We now have a good defence ( that by the end of the year will be rated very highly) a good midfield and good players all over the field. We may not be able to mix it with the big boys yet, but I will bet my left aggett that we finish higher than those teams we beat in the Nab Cup. If all things go right for us then we could well be up near the 8 at the end of the season.

The reason for me saying this as the development of O'halpin and Waite at FB and CHB. We didn't have this in 2005. These 2 will only get better and will provide the defence backbone for us to go forward. Have a look at the last 5 opponents that Setanta has had, Hall, Lloyd, Roughhead, Thompson and one J Brown. He has not been beaten by one these players. He will only get better and is providing the one thing we have not had since SOS retired - a gorilla in defence! He is big enough to take on any of the big forwards and is getting better with every game.

The other thing he has got is a bit of mongel and he hates to lose or get beaten. Have a look at his face when this happens, he is not a happy chappie. He is learning every game and, as his confidence grows watch him grow and the defence grow around him. The same can be said about Waite. These 2 are only going to get better and give us the defence launch pad we need.

To all Carlton supporters have faith, buy a membership get on board for the ride because it is starting to happen.:) :)
 
This win has nothing in commom with 2005 other than the two teams were wearing Carlton jumpers. We now have a good defence ( that by the end of the year will be rated very highly) a good midfield and good players all over the field. We may not be able to mix it with the big boys yet, but I will bet my left aggett that we finish higher than those teams we beat in the Nab Cup. If all things go right for us then we could well be up near the 8 at the end of the season.

The reason for me saying this as the development of O'halpin and Waite at FB and CHB. We didn't have this in 2005. These 2 will only get better and will provide the defence backbone for us to go forward. Have a look at the last 5 opponents that Setanta has had, Hall, Lloyd, Roughhead, Thompson and one J Brown. He has not been beaten by one these players. He will only get better and is providing the one thing we have not had since SOS retired - a gorilla in defence! He is big enough to take on any of the big forwards and is getting better with every game.

2005 v 2007:

http://carltonfc.com.au/Season2007/News/NewsArticle/tabid/4311/Default.aspx?newsId=39851
 
the 4 teams Carlton beat in the NAB Cup are 4 teams the Blues should expect to beat in the 2007 regular season. Being competitive and beating other teams around our level is more important for the future then whether or not we won the cup.

Carlton should expect to beat Essendon, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Brisbane, Collingwood & Richmond, and do well against Port, and be v competitive against Geelong and Melbourne.

enough wins to keep well away from the Bottom were heading :thumbsu: can;t say NAB cup grand final as Soft its just Brisbane lost it them Selves when they missed so many easy shots many what we would have kicked

Carlton won it fair and Square least we didn;t give away and stupid Free kicks that cause 50 meter Penelties
half the frees the Lions got i reckond were soft ;)
least we had 0 reports how the lion reported players got
out of that i got no idea brisbane gotta thank themselves lucky that Notting got away from a serious Shoulder injury
was looking forward to see him cop what murphy got a season ending Injury then see how they like it :thumbsu:
 

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