Strategy Naughton should be our number 1 key forward

[Dogsman16]

If we had more KPD depth I would love to try Cordy forward again and play him alongside Naughton.

Just the type who plays a team first role with heaps of physical presence in the air and on the ground. Would be ideal with him provide the blocks and added physical presence.

Wouldn’t mind a second Zaine Cordy. But at this stage Boyd/Schache or someone else needs to find it within themselves to do these team orientated things, which would allow Naughton to really thrive.

 

[footyfan000001]

Blicavs is who he's expecting to get.

Ah yes true true! Not sure how I forgot him!

 

[Dogsman16]

I’d be interested to see (apart from Hall) who has been the most successful/best KPF we have had in this decade (2010-2019). I’d say between all of Jones, Campbell, Redpath, Boyd, Schache (the names that spring to mind who played KPF for some duration) amongst others, none of them would have kicked more than 25 goals a season.

Not only does it show how bad our KPFs have performed this decade but also highlights how extraordinary Naughton’s start to this season has been considering his age and experience as a forward.

Might do some research post 2011 as to our tall forwards and some key stats (goals, marks inside 50, contested marks etc).

EDIT:
2013 - Liam Jones (22 goals, 1.2 average, 1.8 marks inside 50 per game, 1.7 contested marks per game.

2015 - Jack Redpath (19 goals, 1.6 ave, 1.9 marks inside 50 per game, 1.4 contested marks 50 per game)

2016 - Jack Redpath (20 goals, 2.0 average, 2.7 marks inside 50 per game, 1.5 contested per game)

2018 - Josh Schache (17 goals, 1.3 average, 1.6 marks inside 50 per game, 0.7 contested marks per game)

2019 AARON NAUGHTON (as of round 8)

14 goals - 1.8 average
2.6 marks inside 50 per game
3.1 contested marks per game


Only Redpaths 2016 season was anywhere near comparable in term of output. And even then Redpath was heavily reliant on being able to get hit up on the lead. Certainly wasn’t able to be the pack marker that Naughton provides (which is so crucial in the modern game).

Goes to show how difficult we have made it for ourselves when we haven’t had a key forward kick 25 plus goals for the past 7 seasons. Their wouldn’t be another club in the comp that has got such lowly output from its key forwards.

 

[stefoid]

I'd trade him for Bontempelli

We need some run and carry so Id trade him for 3 quickish fringe players + 3rd rounder as a sweetener.

 

[Mofra]

I was just thinking that there isn't a single player in the comp I'd trade him for. Am I crazy? Is he not there yet? Might he still not become a great key forward? Who would we take in his place?

He's Bontempelli mk 2.
Nobody on this board was really sweating on him and hoping he'd fall to us (like the Bont) but inside 18 months he's become one of our most important players.

 

[Hoges64]

This thread just become a lot more poignant....

 

[ossie_21]

Time to end this experiment, couldn’t care less about a breakout game against Richmond missing their best defender.

Defence wins games of footy and ours is being cut clean open. We can only go with what we have at the moment & I’d call for a full review of our football department if we aren’t aggressive in the trade & draft period about bringing in at least 2 KPP’s (forward & back) as well as at least a couple of natural forwards (medium & small).

Bring Schache back in (as long as he’s at least serviceable in the VFL today) so that Naughton can go back, otherwise play English out of full forward & let Trengove ruck. Cordy in the ruck ffs, what a coaching disaster.

 

[Dogsman16]

Time to end this experiment, couldn’t care less about a breakout game against Richmond missing their best defender.

Defence wins games of footy and ours is being cut clean open. We can only go with what we have at the moment & I’d call for a full review of our football department if we aren’t aggressive in the trade & draft period about bringing in at least 2 KPP’s (forward & back) as well as at least a couple of natural forwards (medium & small).

Bring Schache back in (as long as he’s at least serviceable in the VFL today) so that Naughton can go back, otherwise play English out of full forward & let Trengove ruck. Cordy in the ruck ffs, what a coaching disaster.

Moving him to defence isn’t the answer.

Playing him at CHF and having another tall forward is the answer.

He came up against one of the best tall defenders in the AFL, who is a master at getting away with holding. Meanwhile Ben brown seagulls his way to free kicks at the other end.

 

[dogwatch]

Naughton should be our number 1 key defender.

One breakout game against a Ranceless and clueless Tigers defence aside he really hasn’t dominated up forward and is set up to fail with the structure we have and the way we deliver. Just one leaping forward is too easy for the opposition to cover. Nobody else is an aerial threat for us.

Unless that changes he’s far more value in defence. I reckon he’d have saved more goals in defence than he’s kicked or helped create up forward, especially if you take out that benefit match against Richmond.

 

[Dogsman16]

Naughton should be our number 1 key defender.

One breakout game against a Ranceless and clueless Tigers defence aside he really hasn’t dominated up forward and is set up to fail with the structure we have and the way we deliver. Just one leaping forward is too easy for the opposition to cover. Nobody else is an aerial threat for us.

Unless that changes he’s far more value in defence. I reckon he’d have saved more goals in defence than he’s kicked or helped create up forward, especially if you take out that benefit match against Richmond.

He has dominated other chunks of games though.

2nd half v Brisbane, 3rd quarter against Collingwood, Sydney he was pretty good all game.

We need all the blokes capable of kicking 30+ goals in the forward line.

Naughton will be fine up there when he gets another big body.

On track to kick around 35 goals this season. Name another KPP player in the comp who has kicked 35+ goals in his second season in a non dominant team and with absolutely no tall support.

 

[dogwatch]

He has dominated other chunks of games though.

2nd half v Brisbane, 3rd quarter against Collingwood, Sydney he was pretty good all game.

We need all the blokes capable of kicking 30+ goals in the forward line.

Naughton will be fine up there when he gets another big body.

On track to kick around 35 goals this season. Name another KPP player in the comp who has kicked 35+ goals in his second season in a non dominant team and with absolutely no tall support.

Not going to try. Fair dinkum we should be able to get a 35 goal a year result out of any one of 3-4 blokes in an average list if we have a decent midfield (which we do). 2018 results notwithstanding. Types like Lloyd, Dickson, Schache, Gowers etc.

Opposition sides have figured out how to match up on Naughton when we play with our usual structure. So he gets neutralised.

I just think Naughton would have to be worth 50 or more goals up forward to warrant even thinking about it. His equivalent worth is at least that much leading our defence.

 

[Dogsman16]

Not going to try. Fair dinkum we should be able to get a 35 goal a year result out of any one of 3-4 blokes in an average list if we have a decent midfield (which we do). 2018 results notwithstanding. Types like Lloyd, Dickson, Schache, Gowers etc.

Opposition sides have figured out how to match up on Naughton when we play with our usual structure. So he gets neutralised.

I just think Naughton would have to be worth 50 or more goals up forward to warrant even thinking about it. His equivalent worth is at least that much leading our defence.

With another preseason and another big body added to our forward line he will be able to kick 50 goals. Plus I don’t think he’s super good at being the shutdown type and his disposal in defensive 50 was always an issue.

You can find decent defenders from anywhere. Alex keath for example wasn’t on an AFL list until he was 23.

With his marking talents his should remain forward. Once we get more marking options he will become more dangerous. He needs another season in the gym to help absorb body contact as well.

 

[dogwatch]

With another preseason and another big body added to our forward line he will be able to kick 50 goals. Plus I don’t think he’s super good at being the shutdown type and his disposal in defensive 50 was always an issue.

You can find decent defenders from anywhere. Alex keath for example wasn’t on an AFL list until he was 23.

With his marking talents his should remain forward. Once we get more marking options he will become more dangerous. He needs another season in the gym to help absorb body contact as well.

Exactly the point I keep making. We’re not giving him a forward structure to make any significant difference.

If we won’t do that he’s much more value to us on defence.

 

[Dogsman16]

Exactly the point I keep making. We’re not giving him a forward structure to make any significant difference.

If we won’t do that he’s much more value to us on defence.

Ok I see your point. I’m hoping we do give him the second big body to allow him to thrive.

I think it’s a pretty easy/quick fix though. I think this structure is more a damning indictment of our depth in these positions rather than bev’s preferred structure.

The only real time the one key forward structure has worked was with Jack Riewoldt who’s certainly in the top 5 key forwards of this past decade. And even then Richmond identified a need for another marking target (Lynch). Im confident that with the right list management decisions we will see Naughton freed up a little more.

I had a glimmer of hope on the weekend that at English’s height and size he may on occasion draw attention away from Naughton. If he kicked a third on Thompson then I think the change would have been made.

 

[Next Waiting]

Exactly the point I keep making. We’re not giving him a forward structure to make any significant difference.

If we won’t do that he’s much more value to us on defence.

I think the team would feel reassured and get a psychological lift if he went back. Like a 6'4" security blanket. And this week, of all weeks, against an accomplished kicking and marking team containing our arch nemesis Josh Kennedy and his leaping sidekicks, a little reassurance is needed.

Could give Trengove an extended run in the ruck and have English forward (at least if you're relentlessly bombing it on his head it's already in the clouds) but giving Trenners a chop out. Would need one of Schache, Young or Cordy to run with English if he's not to be mauled by McGovern and co.

 

[Dogsman16]

English looked alright up forward. He’s mobile enough to get separation and I would like to persist with English and Naughton up forward for the next month.

At least in the very sense that opposition teams might take the number 1 defender off Naughton purely because of English’s size. Any team that has only one marking threat is quite easily shut out of it.

Trengrove doesn’t have a match up in defence this week so he should ruck.

 

[stefoid]

Naughton should be our number 1 key defender.

One breakout game against a Ranceless and clueless Tigers defence aside he really hasn’t dominated up forward and is set up to fail with the structure we have and the way we deliver. Just one leaping forward is too easy for the opposition to cover. Nobody else is an aerial threat for us.

Unless that changes he’s far more value in defence. I reckon he’d have saved more goals in defence than he’s kicked or helped create up forward, especially if you take out that benefit match against Richmond.

If Naughton cant make it as a quality key forward in a season or two, then nobody can. At this moment, he barely knows what to do up there.

We arent winning the premiership this year. Every game he spends up there and the team spends trying to work out how to get the ball to him is an investment in next years premiership campaign.

Same goes with English in the ruck, and you would hope Schache in attack if he could get his s**t together.

 

[Dogsman16]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the earlier he gets the ball in his hands the better of he will be. The problem is due to playing one key forward he is forced to be the deepest tall and that leaves him on the best tall defender.

What needs to happen is he plays like a true CHF, between the arcs getting his hands on it early. This can only happen if he has another tall forward to play the deeper role.

Bev after the Geelong game said “we couldn’t get Aaron the ball in the right spots”. The problem was that there isn’t two of him/ or at least another tall. He can’t be in 2 spots at once.

 

[BrisDog]

No more debate - I won! Close thread.

 

[Sharkey66]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the earlier he gets the ball in his hands the better of he will be. The problem is due to playing one key forward he is forced to be the deepest tall and that leaves him on the best tall defender.

What needs to happen is he plays like a true CHF, between the arcs getting his hands on it early. This can only happen if he has another tall forward to play the deeper role.

Bev after the Geelong game said “we couldn’t get Aaron the ball in the right spots”. The problem was that there isn’t two of him/ or at least another tall. He can’t be in 2 spots at once.

Agree with this. Big confidence player. I've noticed that if he drops a mark or two or misses a goal early he can drop out of the game almost entirely. But if he clunks one or goals early he can be almost unstoppable..
Par for the course for a young kid I suppose.

 

[BrisDog]

After reading the trade thread I have added a poll - should Naughty play forward or back?

Particularly relevant if we recruit another forward such as Bruce.

 

[Royale]

The two options in the poll should be forward or forward.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BEaston]

Can't say until we find out what happens post-trades.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Just after some positive affirmation. I have had a very large bet on Mr Naughton to get the three votes in our win against Richmond in round 7. He is at $1.50 odds which I thought was a ridiculous price as it was one of the more dominant games from a player I saw for the season. Kicks 5, 9 contested marks, 10 coaches votes, masterclass. Bont kicked 3 and then played well and is paying $2.40 but surely Naughty gets the 3 here?

Gamble responsibly

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Just after some positive affirmation. I have had a very large bet on Mr Naughton to get the three votes in our win against Richmond in round 7. He is at $1.50 odds which I thought was a ridiculous price as it was one of the more dominant games from a player I saw for the season. Kicks 5, 9 contested marks, 10 coaches votes, masterclass. Bont kicked 3 and then played well and is paying $2.40 but surely Naughty gets the 3 here?

Gamble responsibly

Money in the bank. You should get paid out early.