NC coaching in the showdown - thoughts?

[outback jack]

Mark Stevens wasn't. He was dropped. NC could have easily shown faith in him. He also brought in Torney after he missed 5-6 week a fractured vertabrae. I thought both of those calls needed some courage.

Bringing in Torney can also be read as desperation, and the fact that the next guys to come in were ladhams or smith. The stevens move did take some courage though.

 

[Mong]

who are these critics you talking about, the opposition coaches? of course they are going to complain.

Craig has his critics. It's not just some opposition coaches. It's some Crows fans, some opposition fans, some media 'experts'.

I have encouraged the flood all the winning teams do it, and we did have players like Torney often dropping back against tredders, so it is still in action.

I know, but you were the one that was just saying Craig was all out attack and had no defensive side.

NC had a big win against melbourne last yr i think, playing a very similar style, very attacking, but then went up to sydney and we didn’t even look like winning. It is amazing after one game that all of a sudden we seem to think that those problems we have, are all somehow magically fixed. Still will be a tough yr.

Not at all. I am fully aware that we are still going to struggle and one win does not hide all our existing problems. Our list is still suspect. Nothing has changed. But to win premierships you have to be able to play good attacking footy. When was the last ultra defensive team to win a premiership? You have to have a defensive side, and I don't believe Craig is neglecting that area, but that alone won't get you far.

That Sydney game that you refer to from last year was not lost by being too attacking. It was lost because we couldn't put a score on the board.

 

[drakeyv2]

Ah yes, Stevens. Well he was forced because his form was so bad.

Fair point on Torney.

The "safe" option would have been to go with experience & play Stevens.

Even after dropping Stevens, instead of picking another "tall" to try & match Port's perceived strength he went the other way, & played the extra midfielder, building on our advantage over them.

To go in with only Perrie & Hentschel as "tall" players in the forward line (I can't really can Welsh tall) was very courageous. He resisted starting Biglands up forward even after it appeared to free up the forwards the week before.

A bigger self promoter than Neil Craig would be dinning out on his performance in that game for a fair while.

 

[ok.crows]

The "safe" option would have been to go with experience & play Stevens.

Even after dropping Stevens, instead of picking another "tall" to try & match Port's perceived strength he went the other way, & played the extra midfielder, building on our advantage over them.

To go in with only Perrie & Hentschel as "tall" players in the forward line (I can't really can Welsh tall) was very courageous. He resisted starting Biglands up forward even after it appeared to free up the forwards the week before.

A bigger self promoter than Neil Craig would be dinning out on his performance in that game for a fair while.

I'm not sure it is all Craig. I'm thinking Don Pyke has a lot of input in these areas.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Bringing in Torney can also be read as desperation, and the fact that the next guys to come in were ladhams or smith. The stevens move did take some courage though.

Why does bringing in Thorney reek of deperation. Thorney is one of the tougher, better players on our list.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not fussed whether it was Craig, Pyke, Noble or whoever with the strategies / selection - as long as a group they keep getting it right.

 

[outback jack]

Why does bringing in Thorney reek of deperation. Thorney is one of the tougher, better players on our list.

dosent reek of desperation, but considering the other options to come in, i wouldnt call it a courageous move like some have. Bringing in someone after 6 wks off and a serious injury is a little desperate. Its just like wilson coming in for port, that wasnt courageous, it was desperation, MW didnt have anyone else of that quality to come in.

 

[Mad Dog]

dosent reek of desperation, but considering the other options to come in, i wouldnt call it a courageous move like some have. Bringing in someone after 6 wks off and a serious injury is a little desperate. Its just like wilson coming in for port, that wasnt courageous, it was desperation, MW didnt have anyone else of that quality to come in.

is it desperate to bring back a player who is clearly in our best 22 ??

 

[outback jack]

is it desperate to bring back a player who is clearly in our best 22 ??

not if he is match fit, but after 6 wks out with cracked vertebrae you have to wonder. I don’t really think it was that desperate, but we have a couple saying it was courageous, and all i'm saying i cant see the courage in it, if anything is a little desperate. Who else could he of brought in?? no one of torneys quality or similar role

 

[outback jack]

I know, but you were the one that was just saying Craig was all out attack and had no defensive side.

yep thats true i said that, so thats basically contradicing myself. Basically i think that they we put up a wall esp early so we have to ways to get around it. Can't keep bombing it in. It will be a good test for NC and the guys.

Not at all. I am fully aware that we are still going to struggle and one win does not hide all our existing problems. Our list is still suspect. Nothing has changed. But to win premierships you have to be able to play good attacking footy. When was the last ultra defensive team to win a premiership? You have to have a defensive side, and I don't believe Craig is neglecting that area, but that alone won't get you far.

i wasnt saying you but it is amazing the amount of ppl coming out thinking things have changed.

Defense is very important and we are looking very strong there now. Port and Bris arent overly attacking, but didnt concede much though. Obviously you need to either have a couple of gun forwards or multiple options to goal.

That Sydney game that you refer to from last year was not lost by being too attacking. It was lost because we couldn't put a score on the board.

We tried to attack, but roos kinda broke it down. Craigy was outcoached a bit. Roos delibrately stopped that run off half back, i'll think he'll be doing something the same this wk. NC will be far better prepared this time around though

 

[pext]

The buck stops with Craigy. He deserves the praise because if it goes wrong he gets the criticism.

I'm not going to claim to be a footy expert but the talk from the footy commentators on the tactics used by the crows has been very flattering for the coaching staff here in melbourne and I agree.

The blokes who should know are saying that all other 14 clubs will be watching the match on video and that the blue print for strangling the powers 'uncontested possession' game may have been put on display on Sunday.

The crows didn't flood back when power had possession. The HFF's manned up on the loose power players across half back restricting the powers ability to chip it around and crack open the defence.

Once port was forced into moving the ball forward, the crows defenders were particulary courageous with defenders like Torney and K-Mac leaving their men to move up the ground to half back to create a kind of zone defence at half back. Result was the complete breakdown of the powers midfield as the players in the midfield were looking upfield and seeing nothing but contested targets.

8 goals to port and a truck load of possession between the arc for the crows. I like what I see!

 

[Mad Dog]

not if he is match fit, but after 6 wks out with cracked vertebrae you have to wonder. I don’t really think it was that desperate, but we have a couple saying it was courageous, and all i'm saying i cant see the courage in it, if anything is a little desperate. Who else could he of brought in?? no one of torneys quality or similar role

I don't think it was particularly courageous of NC.....but it was of Jason Torney. The potential for damage would have flashed before his eyes at each contest. I think the way JT through himself at his work on Sunday was very courageous. I think we all would have been satisfied if he had been serviceable - but he was (IMO) our best player - as well as being one of the most fierce at the man and ball.

I think that takes courage - even without a crook back

 

[noddy]

I don't think it was particularly courageous of NC.....but it was of Jason Torney. The potential for damage would have flashed before his eyes at each contest. I think the way JT through himself at his work on Sunday was very courageous. I think we all would have been satisfied if he had been serviceable - but he was (IMO) our best player - as well as being one of the most fierce at the man and ball.

I think that takes courage - even without a crook back

Amen to that MD.

It wasn't courageous or desperate of Craigy to rush JT straight back into the starting 18 if he was fit enough, it was plain old common sense.

 

[sog35]

The blokes who should know are saying that all other 14 clubs will be watching the match on video and that the blue print for strangling the powers 'uncontested possession' game may have been put on display on Sunday.

The crows didn't flood back when power had possession. The HFF's manned up on the loose power players across half back restricting the powers ability to chip it around and crack open the defence.

Half back wasn't the key, midfield pressure was. It always has been for teams playing against Port. It was typical of the games we have lost in the past. If coaches and teams really wanted to see how to beat Port why haven't they watched the Roos or the Demons at the MCG play against us?

Once it became obvious that Port weren't switched on and the Crows were it was all over.

 

[outback jack]

I don't think it was particularly courageous of NC.....but it was of Jason Torney. The potential for damage would have flashed before his eyes at each contest. I think the way JT through himself at his work on Sunday was very courageous. I think we all would have been satisfied if he had been serviceable - but he was (IMO) our best player - as well as being one of the most fierce at the man and ball.

I think that takes courage - even without a crook back

yep i agree with that torney was good. wasnt a courageous move by NC though. Torney would have been in the top 3, was a bit stiff not to get the medal, probably his best for the club so far.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

not if he is match fit, but after 6 wks out with cracked vertebrae you have to wonder. I don’t really think it was that desperate, but we have a couple saying it was courageous, and all i'm saying i cant see the courage in it, if anything is a little desperate. Who else could he of brought in?? no one of torneys quality or similar role

It wasn't a desperate move to play JT, rather a calcuated risk, given Hart's injury. NC & the coaching staff got it right, as JT was arguably BOG & (nearly all) Crows' supporters are happy with the result.

PS JT showed great courage backing into packs given his previous injury.

 

[macca23]

It wasn't a desperate move to play JT, rather a calcuated risk, given Hart's injury. NC & the coaching staff got it right, as JT was arguably BOG & (nearly all) Crows' supporters are happy with the result.

PS JT showed great courage backing into packs given his previous injury.

I don't understand the desperate comment at all. Torney can play.

If we'd played Smith, now that WOULD be desperate!!

Neil Craig belted Williams in the coaching stakes on Sunday, but he was assisted by the Crows' midfield absolutely smashing the Port mid-field.

Williams on the other hand - well, let's just say he started on the wrong foot by playing a 5 man forward line with a loose man in defence, and it got worse from there. not one of his better days.

 

[outback jack]

I don't understand the desperate comment at all. Torney can play.

If we'd played Smith, now that WOULD be desperate!!

Neil Craig belted Williams in the coaching stakes on Sunday, but he was assisted by the Crows' midfield absolutely smashing the Port mid-field.

Williams on the other hand - well, let's just say he started on the wrong foot by playing a 5 man forward line with a loose man in defence, and it got worse from there. not one of his better days.

your using the desperate phrase in the wrong context. Using Smith is infact courageous, as he is an untried and unproven player. Just as dumping MS was courageous as there was no one else to come in.

 

[NikkiNoo]

time to add my thoughts - sorry I've been missing for the past 3 weeks guys but had a few people to catch up with and a wedding to attend (not mine btw!)

thoughts on the tactics - well to me watching the first quarter I was thinking will rucci be writing that the power were playing like the crows last year - not once did I see them try to bring the ball through the middle of the ground into the forwards but always staying wide, whereas all game pretty much our boys would pass it around to create the loose man and the run back into the middle for delivery into the forward line. I was also impressed with the zoning in the space to upset ports small chipping game. I would also say that williams left franco on the ground for way too long. Whoever got to him in the first quarter deserves a medal! I would have classed franco as the best player for the crows in the first half (he gave away too many frees and was very undisciplined and yet williams left him on when he was such a liability) Port missed their speedsters through the midfield and the players that they had there kept hearing footsteps every time due to the pressure exerted by all the crows players - they had a team rule to run and pressure and not one of ours boys deviated from that plan. Roo said an interesting thing in the Shed afterwards. He commented that he had never seen any coach that he has had put as much preperation into a game as NC and the players respect that and try to assist on game day that preperation.

and it was such a lovely present just before I had to get on a plane and leave all that lovely weather behind for cold merry ol england

 

[macca23]

time to add my thoughts - sorry I've been missing for the past 3 weeks guys but had a few people to catch up with and a wedding to attend (not mine btw!)

thoughts on the tactics - well to me watching the first quarter I was thinking will rucci be writing that the power were playing like the crows last year - not once did I see them try to bring the ball through the middle of the ground into the forwards but always staying wide, whereas all game pretty much our boys would pass it around to create the loose man and the run back into the middle for delivery into the forward line. I was also impressed with the zoning in the space to upset ports small chipping game. I would also say that williams left franco on the ground for way too long. Whoever got to him in the first quarter deserves a medal! I would have classed franco as the best player for the crows in the first half (he gave away too many frees and was very undisciplined and yet williams left him on when he was such a liability) Port missed their speedsters through the midfield and the players that they had there kept hearing footsteps every time due to the pressure exerted by all the crows players - they had a team rule to run and pressure and not one of ours boys deviated from that plan. Roo said an interesting thing in the Shed afterwards. He commented that he had never seen any coach that he has had put as much preperation into a game as NC and the players respect that and try to assist on game day that preperation.

and it was such a lovely present just before I had to get on a plane and leave all that lovely weather behind for cold merry ol england

Shirley was the man who stitched up Francou, Nikki.

Good to see you back on the boards again, and delighted the boys could give you an excellent send-off present.

If that's due to your presence, you're welcome every time!!