Society/Culture New York City - home of the 'nanny state'

[bit_pattern]

Do you think any of these should have been banned:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/additiveban.html

Or do you think that the market would just sort it out because a manufacturer advertising "Thermally oxidised soya bean oil
interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids" would sell enough units to put its competitors out of business, or do you think there are enough people out there who wouldn't have a clue what Thermally oxidised soya bean oil
interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids actually was so wouldn't give a damn either way?

 

[bit_pattern]

Anyway, I really AM off to bed, g'night!

 

[Niximus]

I see what you are getting at but we are talking about something that has already been banned. Lead soldering was used to manufacture cans right up until the mid ninties in America, lead lined corks were used in Aus right up until the late ninties, yet the dangers of lead were known for decades before that. So if the market is so great then why did it take so long for lead to be taken out of food containers? Because the market didn't react until the government acted for them and banned it. The market only cares about the bottom line, if it's cheaper then they will do it unless the government stops them.

So, would you be happy to see lead products used in food manufacturing or not? And, yes, you ARE skirting around the issue, in a big way.

Impatient...

Ok the reason they wouldn't go back is because we all know that lead is bad to ingest. Nobody would buy a can that contained lead. As you said

The market only cares about the bottom line,

Yes the education of the public was in part due to the ban but it certainly isn't the only way to educate. Being in the sun too long is really bad for you, it's legal though. Playing 16 hours of WOW every day is really bad for your health, it's also legal.

My point is that Education is the key.

Cocaine is bad for you, it's banned and yet you still use it do you not?

 

[Niximus]

Do you think any of these should have been banned:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/additiveban.html

Or do you think that the market would just sort it out because a manufacturer advertising "Thermally oxidised soya bean oil
interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids" would sell enough units to put its competitors out of business, or do you think there are enough people out there who wouldn't have a clue what Thermally oxidised soya bean oil
interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids actually was so wouldn't give a damn either way?

If you were a competitor of a company who used harmful substances, would you not point it out to your potential clients?

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

Is your GF watching a mini -series?
One episode after the other.

 

[Chief]

Are they informed though? How many people actually know the RDA of different items? What % of the population knows what the corrrect calorie intake should be? How many how to adjust this according to their height, exercise regime etc?

Hang on you just waffled on about how people SHOULD ALREADY know what is good for them.

You're delirious.

 

[medusala]

Hang on you just waffled on about how people SHOULD ALREADY know what is good for them.

You're delirious.

??

People intuitively know that if you eat too much (or of the wrong food) then you are going to put on weight. It is a very simple concept to grasp. People are not fact due to lack of knowledge.

That in no way infers people have any idea re the RDAs for salt, sugar, fat etc nor the recommended number of calories they should intake every day.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

??

People intuitively know that if you eat too much (or of the wrong food) then you are going to put on weight. It is a very simple concept to grasp. People are not fact due to lack of knowledge.

That in no way infers people have any idea re the RDAs for salt, sugar, fat etc nor the recommended number of calories they should intake every day.

By your own logic, people intuitively think eating a superkarket salad is healthy but might not know that it has actually got loads of hidden fat and additives unless a warning was put there.

 

[medusala]

By your own logic, people intuitively think eating a superkarket salad is healthy but might not know that it has actually got loads of hidden fat and additives unless a warning was put there.

Possibly (there was an Evening Standard IIRC article on this the other day) although the list of additives would mean nothing to most people.

I think most people realise that ready packaged food is not as good/healthy as food you prepare yourself.

In any event if something is purchased in the supermarket it will have labelling. I dont have an issue with this given even if it does little the extra cost/hassle is minimal.

I do have an issue with the local cafe/deli/ restaurant being forced to do similar.

Torygraph reporting that the Tories are making changes to the labelling system re drinks in the UK due to "confusion"

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

I only read Alex and occasionaly the cricket in the Torygraph so wouldn't know.

 

[medusala]

I only read Alex and occasionaly the cricket in the Torygraph so wouldn't know.

Had you down as a Guardian reader

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...359/Tories-to-ditch-alcohol-units-system.html

The Tories have pledged to ditch the ''confusing'' alcohol units system and introduce calorie counts on drinks.

 

[Niximus]

Is your GF watching a mini -series?
One episode after the other.

She was watching Californication and yes when one episode finished there was another one immediately after.

 

[TheBloods]

Why are people arguing against the banning of trans fats? There is no benefit to the consumer of having them in food. They are used because it's a cost saving for the manufacturer. It's not comparable to any of the arguments about drugs or anything else.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Had you down as a Guardian reader

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...359/Tories-to-ditch-alcohol-units-system.html

The Tories have pledged to ditch the ''confusing'' alcohol units system and introduce calorie counts on drinks.

On a daily basis I'll read:

The Scotsman (shite)

Glasgow Herald (best Scottish news)

Guardian (mostly for the international stuff)

Times

FT

Sun

Torygraph is shite and not worth it.

And the alcohol units system is confusing.

 

[cancat]

Why are people arguing against the banning of trans fats?

Don't think anyone was.

 

[1jasonoz]

This is one of the common criticisms of food labelling and govt campaigns/regulation.

Many food processors now label in bold "low fat", "2% fat" etc on their packaging. However, the companies involved quite often pump up salt, sugars etc to offset this change with the result that there are no net health benefits.

It is not dissimilar to govt forcing banks to show the "real" interest rate via APR legislation. Banks quickly worked around this via fees, penalty clauses etc.

Many of these things have unintended consequences which negate the good intentions.

Many food processors now label in bold "low fat", "2% fat" etc on their packaging. However, the companies involved quite often pump up salt, sugars etc to offset this change with the result that there are no net health benefits.

And thats why government laws require companies to produce accurate descriptions of the contents of their products, as well as any potential health affects!!

It is not dissimilar to govt forcing banks to show the "real" interest rate via APR legislation. Banks quickly worked around this via fees, penalty clauses etc.

And thats why government legislation requires these financial businesses (or any other businesses) to provide a listing of all fee's/cost's involved with their products;

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/907631

Avis changes website advertising

WTH Pty Ltd, trading as Avis Australia, has made changes to its website advertising to ensure that all mandatory fees and charges are included in quoted prices......

On 25 May 2009 amendments to the Trade Practices Act 1974 came into force under section 53C of the Act requiring businesses that use component pricing to also specify a single (total) price for the goods and services, including all mandatory charges quantifiable at that time....

"Accurate price representations are not just good advertising practice, they are required by law," Mr Samuel said.

 

[bit_pattern]

Impatient...

Ok the reason they wouldn't go back is because we all know that lead is bad to ingest. Nobody would buy a can that contained lead. As you said

But people DID, right up until it was banned, it wasn't the market that stopped the practice. The market is actually a piss poor regulator, it has been proved time and time again. Ergo, your argument is a load of codswallop, no matter how much you dodge the questions and skirt around the issue.

So you are saying that you'd be happy for lead never to have been banned from food production? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[GeorgeGrljusich]

She was watching Californication and yes when one episode finished there was another one immediately after.

Geez. No sleep. No sex. Too much telly.
You better put some serious labelling around the house to make sure she knows who is in charge.

 

[bit_pattern]

If you were a competitor of a company who used harmful substances, would you not point it out to your potential clients?

Then why weren't there products boldly declaring that their food was Thermally oxidised soya bean oil interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids free before the stuff was banned? And would the average consumer on seeing such a label actually know wtf Thermally oxidised soya bean oil interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids was and care either way? And what is to stop a canny manufacturr from pushing the taste benefits of using Thermally oxidised soya bean oil interacted with mono* and diglycerides of fatty acids in their product?

 

[1jasonoz]

But people DID, right up until it was banned, it wasn't the market that stopped the practice. The market is actually a piss poor regulator, it has been proved time and time again. Ergo, your argument is a load of codswallop, no matter how much you dodge the questions and skirt around the issue.

So you are saying that you'd be happy for lead never to have been banned from food production? A simple yes or no will do.

Yep Red Lead paint was the standard paint primer used in the Maritime Industry for years-it lasted longer than any other paint on the market but it was only when the government legislated to ban the use of it the market finally decided to investigate "other" less toxic alternatives.

 

[evo]

You better put some serious labelling around the house to make sure she knows who is in charge.

Indeed.

"All hail the labeller."

 

[Niximus]

We've gotten way off topic. My fault, sometimes I can't help continuing to debate all the side tracks the people try to throw in when their point fails, just for the hell of it I guess.

The truth is you can probably make an argument for banning certain substances and if you take either argument to the extremes the both can look rediculous (i.e. allowing people to use toxic substances in food at one end or banning anything that has negative health impacts at the other end).

The fact is that the original conversation was about legal ingredients and labels, not about illegal substances.

It is like when debating an R18+ rating for video games rather than them being Refused Classification (effectively banned). Bringing up child pr0n and having the supporter of an R18+ agree that it should be illegal does not make an argument that the government should determine what games are suitable (healthy) for an adult Australian.

 

[Niximus]

Geez. No sleep. No sex. Too much telly.
You better put some serious labelling around the house to make sure she knows who is in charge.

Ah yes, there was a night where I was on the computer and not having a continuous bonk session, I obviously never have sex then...

 

[bit_pattern]

Way to dodge the question, Nick!

What amount of trans-fat is 'healthy', btw?

 

[TheBloods]

Don't think anyone was.

Isn't that the only thing that is to be banned?