Off Season Changes

[ipswichpies]

Not making a GF isn't good enough after the season we had in 2011. Malthouse would have out coached Longmire i have no doubt about that. Defensively we have lost the plot. Collingwood should never have sacked Malthouse.

Malthouse was outcoached by 1st year coach Scott 3 times last season and on the last the last 2 occasions by a big margin all those people who think MM is like the 2nd coming maybe should go to Carlton and join him there.

I agree Buck,s will get some heat next if we have a better run with injury and no more success than this season and quite rightly so but for a bloke in his 1st season in charge with a severe injury and a 75% turnaround in coaches he should be given some slack.

I do not think Malthouse would have gotten any more from the list this year than Buckley has in fact I think we would of went further backwards,as for the suggestions we can both Buckley and Ed that is so pathetic you would not deign to answer it.

 

[Maggie5]

We seriously consider sacking Bucks and Edd should stand down.

Okay, we do that and who do we get to replace them? Roos unlikely to come, who is doing a better job than Eddie?
Happy to read your opinion but please give alternatives too.

 

[Maggie5]

Good god. We have gone backwards everywhere this year.

You want to give Buckley 10 years after inheriting the best list in the AFL? Hate to break it to you but in 10 years almost all of the current best 22 wont be around. What do you think this is? A free ticket for Buckley to reign for 10 years no matter the results? The only excuse Bucks has is injuries but that doesnt explain the ordinary football we have played ALL year.

We have gone backwards everywhere this year. To think otherwise is bewildering.

I certainly don't want to give Buckley 10 years but am happy to give him 3. Look at the Hawks it has taken them that long to finetune their gameplan. Certainly not prepared to bag him after one.
I am not happy that we will not be there next week but wouldn't put all the blame on him, injuries or gameplan, the players need to be up to it too.
We are in a similar position to Geelong with player list and we finished above them.

 

[ipswichpies]

There are 2 or 3 Blokes I would not mind helping Buck,s with the coaching and they are Ratten,Burns and Lloyd all 3 are people who could help our team.
I think Keeffe can help our disposal coming out of the back next year and Williams can give us some run Mooney is another who kicks the ball alright as does Yagmoor who is still only 18 and needs time we don,t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There are players on our list who we must make hard decisions on but they are not 1st yr players.

 

[Lockyer24]

Ridiculous to harshly mark Buckley this year.

1. We were on a slightly downward trajectory since the end of 2011 regardless. We weren't firing at the end of 2011. The press was dead and buried and our ball movement really slowed up. Fact
2. We finished the home and away 2012 only a game or so behind other clubs with much better injury runs than us and far easier fixtures.

We need to make some big changes to our gameplan when we have the ball in our hands. Bucks tried to make changes to this early in 2012 but ended up reverting to the Malthouse gameplan more as the players struggled and we had some ugly moments early.

We now have proof we have to change our style and we will start weeding out the below average kickers. We have relied on our contested ball winning and physical pressure to achieve our success, we now need to go down the road of Hawks/Crows/Cats in drafting more elite ball users. Could you ask for a better ideas man to help us renovate our offensive gameplan than possibly the best ever user of the football.

 

[ipswichpies]

It won't happen but Butters is the one for me under the pump. There is no evidence to say;
- we run out quarters stronger
- we run out games stronger
- we have a low injury rate

And when you consider this year we hit the season unfit, had the good patch of energy from about round 4 to round 14 then fatigued out from there (2 years running virtually) I don't think he has brought a successful fitness program to the club since the 3+1 change to the interchange

Should we chase the weapon? no seriously I agree with a lot of what you say but Buttifant cannot be blamed for 4 knee rec,os but he did alright to get the Krak back as soon as he did and it showed what we missed all season,we did have some soft tissue injuries but our main injuries were collision one,s and there is nothing to be done about them.

About Didak he had a full pre season this year and looked good prior to his injuries but he is a week to week proposition now unfortunately.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Ridiculous to harshly mark Buckley this year.

We now have proof we have to change our style and we will start weeding out the below average kickers. We have relied on our contested ball winning and physical pressure to achieve our success, we now need to go down the road of Hawks/Crows/Cats in drafting more elite ball users. Could you ask for a better ideas man to help us renovate our offensive gameplan than possibly the best ever user of the football.

I agree, on many occasions our skills, or more accurately our poor skills, let us down.
Hawthorn is the benchmark, we need to at least get to their level. I think we have the players to do it with a few exceptions.
And it can turn around quickly, Sinclair's skills were terrible at the start of the year, but by two-thirds of the way through the season they had rapidly improved.

 

[Mame]

Buckley inherited a premiership list while Malthouse had to rebuild after 2003. Buckley should be expected to deliver a premiership in 2013, depending perhaps on our ruck situation.

He inherited a premiership list that suited MM's game plan; that was the boundary line and the press. This was in so small part effected by the sub rule as it's very intensive and the smaller interchange made it harder to implement. Add to that Geelong's breaking of it and you've got a game that's evolved past the press into taking more risks up the middle with precise/quick ball movement. We don't have the elite foot skills in the back line to pull this off and Leon's loss compounded it.

 

[Mame]

Ridiculous to harshly mark Buckley this year.

1. We were on a slightly downward trajectory since the end of 2011 regardless. We weren't firing at the end of 2011. The press was dead and buried and our ball movement really slowed up. Fact
2. We finished the home and away 2012 only a game or so behind other clubs with much better injury runs than us and far easier fixtures.

We need to make some big changes to our gameplan when we have the ball in our hands. Bucks tried to make changes to this early in 2012 but ended up reverting to the Malthouse gameplan more as the players struggled and we had some ugly moments early.

We now have proof we have to change our style and we will start weeding out the below average kickers. We have relied on our contested ball winning and physical pressure to achieve our success, we now need to go down the road of Hawks/Crows/Cats in drafting more elite ball users. Could you ask for a better ideas man to help us renovate our offensive gameplan than possibly the best ever user of the football.

This. A new game plan will take confidence and the way this year went they just didn't have it against the Swans. The bad luck during the year took its toll.

 

[Krueger]

He inherited a premiership list that suited MM's game plan; that was the boundary line and the press. This was in so small part effected by the sub rule as it's very intensive and the smaller interchange made it harder to implement. Add to that Geelong's breaking of it and you've got a game that's evolved past the press into taking more risks up the middle with precise/quick ball movement. We don't have the elite foot skills in the back line to pull this off and Leon's loss compounded it.

So what is the solution? A complete list rebuild? I dont recall Adeliade rebuilding their list to accomodate a new coach and gameplan. Fact is whatever we tried this year didnt work. Yes we had injuries but the whole gameplan doesnt fall apart if you get a few injuries. Sure you might lose a few more games because of injuries but it never looked like working apart from a few quarters spread out over many games. We were flattered by our ladder position at the end of home and away.

 

[Old Spice]

So what is the solution? A complete list rebuild? I dont recall Adeliade rebuilding their list to accomodate a new coach and gameplan. Fact is whatever we tried this year didnt work. Yes we had injuries but the whole gameplan doesnt fall apart if you get a few injuries. Sure you might lose a few more games because of injuries but it never looked like working apart from a few quarters spread out over many games. We were flattered by our ladder position at the end of home and away.

Anytime someone talks about improving skills or getting players with better kicking skills, you go off your nana and try and put words in people's mouths, eg 'a complete list rebuild'. Who said anything so catastrophic?

If you think making a focus on skills is some type of problem for the club, you have a peculiar view of things. Adelaide (who you may recall we beat in probably the best win of the year) have sharp skills and I really like how they played yesyerday. Their game is more open with run and carry. The hope for a return to the boundary line / press springs eternal with you, but you close off so much of the ground by not trying to go through the middle more often. Open's up the whole field.

We need skilled players though to pull that off. Hence it should be a focus to pick up good kickers and improve the skills of those we have.

 

[Enforcer]

So what is the solution? A complete list rebuild? I dont recall Adeliade rebuilding their list to accomodate a new coach and gameplan. Fact is whatever we tried this year didnt work. Yes we had injuries but the whole gameplan doesnt fall apart if you get a few injuries. Sure you might lose a few more games because of injuries but it never looked like working apart from a few quarters spread out over many games. We were flattered by our ladder position at the end of home and away.

Alot of things didn't go our way this season, long term injuries ( 4 x ACL reconstructions, 2 x shoulder reconstructions), potentially the toughest H/A draw, Cloke contract saga, etc. The unfortunate death of J-Mac also impacted the team (to what extent we'll probably never know).

We will certainly need to look at addressing deficiencies highlighted by opposition teams - lack of leg speed, outside runners, shutdown midfielder, genuine second ruckman.

Throughout all this, I would have thought a top 4 finish was fair reward and a huge vindication of Nathan Buckley's first season as senior coach.

 

[collingtimber]

I'd like to see bucks moved on, i know he was a great player-great media person and very well spoken, but that doesn't mean he's a great coach, we've slipped so far since he took over during a period where we should be getting better, i have no idea what the game plan is, i don't think the players do either, everything is rushed and has been all season, our 2011 worst was better than our 2012 best (round 22 the exception), as i've said before, 2012 was not a year to change coaches, ******* ridiculous, thanks Edd.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Alot of things didn't go our way this season, long term injuries ( 4 x ACL reconstructions, 2 x shoulder reconstructions), potentially the toughest H/A draw, Cloke contract saga, etc. The unfortunate death of J-Mac also impacted the team (to what extent we'll probably never know).

We will certainly need to look at addressing deficiencies highlighted by opposition teams - lack of leg speed, outside runners, shutdown midfielder, genuine second ruckman.

Throughout all this, I would have thought a top 4 finish was fair reward and a huge vindication of Nathan Buckley's first season as senior coach.

You forgot to mention kicking skill, forward stucture, forward entries and game plan.

Nothing less than a top 4 finish was expected given we were second last year and premiers the week before. Don't try and say that a top 4 finish was 'a huge vindication of Buckley'. Geelong's victory last year is what I call a huge vindication of a first year coach'.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Mate, he is entitled to his opinion just as you are, and if there is a time to be critical of coaches and players it is now. I'd have to say that I was not that impressed with Buckley's coaching in the 2nd half of the year, though do not agree that he should be sacked. His refusal to make any changes last night, particularly in the forward line, reminded me of MM. Hopefully,next year Buckley will initiate a game plan that we are able to see and understand. Some hard decisions need to be made with a few players.

What you mean like playing Swan out of the goal square at the start of the last?? What moves do you suppose he make??

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Why do so many people want Caddy?? Have you watched him play? He is not worth what you would need to pay for him, and there is no position for him in the side right now (assuming Luke Ball comes back ok). We do need midfielders both inside and outside, but I think its more important we get midfielders who are capable of playing a shutdown role on an opposing midfielder. I don't see Caddy doing anything like that. Maybe we can find a delisted experienced midfielder or a star VFL player to do this role.

I think everyone is over reacting just a touch. After the first 3 rounds this year I was pretty sure we couldn't win the flag. Not just because of the way we were playing, but because of the injuries to crucial players. It's not just the ACLs, its also the guys who played 18-19 games who were probably not cherry ripe at the end of the season and then the young guys that were asked to carry so much more of a load because those senior guys were out. Look at every premiership team over the last decade. All of them have very few injuries and continuity for most of the year. We never had that this season, it was one injury after another. Did we ever have an unchanged line up? Even once??
A lot of improvement will come from just playing 5-6 games in a row together. Get everyone fit and injury free and I really do think the side will be a major force next season.

Also, to those thinking that our list was so unbelievably great and that Bucks has taken us backwards, look at the list at the start of the year, and then take away MaCaffer, Didak, Tarrant, Johnson, Krakouer and Ball, and then take away another one or two senior players nearly every week, then tell me if you think the list is really that great. I think our list building is a long term thing, but I don't think there would be a team in the league with so many young 40+ draft picks on their list. We really need to decide who of these young guys can make it, and decide quite soon. Replinish the list with a good quality young midfielder with our first draft pick this year, maybe two if Wellingham leaves, and we will have a classier edge to the team.

 

[Krueger]

Anytime someone talks about improving skills or getting players with better kicking skills, you go off your nana and try and put words in people's mouths, eg 'a complete list rebuild'. Who said anything so catastrophic?

If you think making a focus on skills is some type of problem for the club, you have a peculiar view of things. Adelaide (who you may recall we beat in probably the best win of the year) have sharp skills and I really like how they played yesyerday. Their game is more open with run and carry. The hope for a return to the boundary line / press springs eternal with you, but you close off so much of the ground by not trying to go through the middle more often. Open's up the whole field.

We need skilled players though to pull that off. Hence it should be a focus to pick up good kickers and improve the skills of those we have.

So you think mature and experienced players with elite kicking skills are just going to fall out of trees do you? How many elite kicks do we have comapared to say Hawthorn? A handfull if that. Our skills were better last year FFS. I suppose playing players with Ben Sincliars foot skills is certainly heading in the right direction eh?

Just stop responding to my posts, cos I cant be bothered retorting to your ridiculous excuse laden tripe.

 

[Pies12]

kicking skills, kicking skills and ahhhh....kicking skills. Structural improvements to

 

[Dicky_Knee]

Many of you will not like my thoughts on this, but i dont care.

If Cloke stays Dawes must go. He's no good in the air and when the pill comes to ground he is even worse. Tippet would be a good fit and takes a better mark than Dawes.

Didak to be given a chance to get fit but only one more year.

Wellingham, Sidebottom, Blair all these guys could be used as trade bait.

Delistings Wood.

Retirements Tarrant, Johnson.

Get a ruckman to help Jolly out.

Do everything we can to get Goddard at the club if that means sacrificing players in trades lets get it done.

Buckley to stay on as coach we have bitten the bullet, now lets give him time to find his feet.

Everyone else needs to sharpen up their skills, we need to be hitting targets a lot more next year.

Flame on lads

 

[mike_]

Thought Johnno had a great game against West Coast. Sure he was awful last night, but a lot of others weren't that much better. I'd give him another year to have a good niggle-free season.

What are the chances of landing Q-Stick from W.C? Didn't see many of their games this year, how has he been performing?

 

[Pies12]

Thought Johnno had a great game against West Coast. Sure he was awful last night, but a lot of others weren't that much better. I'd give him another year to have a good niggle-free season.

What are the chances of landing Q-Stick from W.C? Didn't see many of their games this year, how has he been performing?

Wouldn't bother, has been very ordinary and think the big fellas career is well and truly over

 

[daics_35]

I agree with you Dicky_Knee. Some people don't understand what trade bait it, you can't get something decent by trading players like Wood, Young and Rounds. I am a massive Blair fan but if we could get an upgrade why not. The club doesn't owe the players loyalty the players owe the club loyalty because the club will always be bigger. It's such a tough industry where you can get traded at anytime and Blair isn't an untouchable player but I would be suprised if he was at another club.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I would have thought for loyalty to actually mean something, it needs to be both ways.
I'm pretty sure the Master-Slave stuff no longer exists

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

It is time to be adventurous in our trading. Sidebottom, Wellingham, Blair and others could be used to get pace, elite kicking skills and a Leigh Brown type. It is time to realise that we have to give up quality to get quality. We have plenty of one-paced types in the mid-field and defenders with poor kicking skills. Our premiership window is already closing with Jolly's demise.

 

[loki04]

I don't get this "best" list in AFL rot? clearly they are not otherwise we'd be in a GF despite any coaching change. Yes we have a good list to very good but it has some major flaws by having multiple poorly skilled NQR role players.

We have several players who burn the ball, teams have worked out the press and can now score quite heavily from countering it, we have had several injuries, players have gotten older Taz, Dids, Johno, Jolly and Maxwell all have gotten injuries the last few seasons.

We have traded 4/5 first round draft picks from the last 5 drafts, it was always going to come back to bite doing it so many years.

Also I know this might come as a shock but OTHER teams improve their players get better, stronger, fitter and fine tune their skill sets.