Our Future Midfield

[ace andy]

Yeah, maybe. I assume you accept the judgement with regards to Adams. I'm talking about the midfield group so really it comes down to both cementing a place in the 22 by season's end, 25 or so games away. Its not like they are breaking into the league's premier midfield. We have let go of some real talent and set our sights on a minor/major rebuild. If Freeman isn't there until mid 2016 or so, when can we expect Scharenberg or DeGoey, 2017/8?

I'm not suggesting we should get rid of Freeman anymore than we should have got rid of Dane Swan. I am suggesting the current coaching/whoever at the club needs this youth to step up next year significantly. I can't see many supporters being happy if we are still unsure if the rebuild will pay off by the end of 2016 and the only way we can be sure is to see these players show real promise over the next 12 months. Its not about relying on them to achieve but a case of that the current coaching/recruitment/developmental staff must be judged ultimately by outcomes and time is running out for those outcomes to remain uncertain.

Only because at least Adams has something tangible to judge him on. But players don't always get better as you expect them too. If freeman did mostly play VFL this year it doesn't mean that De Goey would take longer to develop. For all we know Freeman might take 5 years to become an AFL player and De Goey might do it this year. Things don't always work out as you plan.

 

[noideaatall]

Only because at least Adams has something tangible to judge him on. But players don't always get better as you expect them too. If freeman did mostly play VFL this year it doesn't mean that De Goey would take longer to develop. For all we know Freeman might take 5 years to become an AFL player and De Goey might do it this year. Things don't always work out as you plan.

Yep, agreed. My point is if they don't then those that made the plans, that set this rebuild in motion and backed youth will be, or should be, held accountable. Some reporter suggested last year Bucks would live or die on the development of Grundy, Kennedy, Broomhead, Scharenberg and Freeman. I tend to agree. Whether its fair or likely doesn't matter that much.

 

[Kilmo]

I am excited about Broomhead, and it seems most people on here are too.

However if memory serves, he was the draft pick supposedly taken earlier than expected, with Grundy expected to be gone already and Kennedy was around out pick according to Emma Quayle... I wonder why other clubs didn't spot the talent that he *seems* to have?

 

[Vicky Park]

Guys, I'm merging the latest 'Adams and Freeman' thread with the (already existing) 'Our Future Midfield' thread. There's also the 'Angry Adams' thread. Think we have enough midfield related threads.

 

[motr]

I am excited about Broomhead, and it seems most people on here are too.

However if memory serves, he was the draft pick supposedly taken earlier than expected, with Grundy expected to be gone already and Kennedy was around out pick according to Emma Quayle... I wonder why other clubs didn't spot the talent that he *seems* to have?

Deep draft and who is prepared to wait for a Ruckman.

 

[Apex36]

I am excited about Broomhead, and it seems most people on here are too.

However if memory serves, he was the draft pick supposedly taken earlier than expected, with Grundy expected to be gone already and Kennedy was around out pick according to Emma Quayle... I wonder why other clubs didn't spot the talent that he *seems* to have?

From memory the Bombers were keen on him with their second round pick, and I think Wells from Geelong was close to pulling the trigger on him for their first round pick too.

He was definitely on the radar of a couple of other clubs, and I'm glad that Hine decided to pull the trigger on him with pick 20.

 

[ksardog]

I agree we should bookmark the bookmarks

Perhaps we should start a bookmark thread. Would make interesting reading in a few years time

 

[TradeDraft]

Deep draft and who is prepared to wait for a Ruckman.

No These Days as it showed with Grundy

 

[motr]

No These Days as it showed with Grundy

Collingwood's decision to take Grundy was obviously a risk. For quite a few years we've taken the value. Even this year, while DeGoey and Moore are both premium picks, they represent value. They're not out of staters or carrying an injury, but DeGoey has had limited time in an elimite system and Moore was a father son that should have gone top 4

 

[mike123]

We were never going pass up on Grundy when he slid

 

[Buckley is my hero]

You think I was trolling?

I just think it would be interesting to see which posters actually have a good reputation for picking future stars as apart from the ones who just randomly latch on to new players every 6 months and no body remembers how many times they get it wrong. I don't mind people guessing. Just gets kind of silly with so many people say 'future star. guaranteed' like they are an authority. (not specifically this thread)

I think you're missing the point here. Do you think players are plucked from oblivion when they are drafted? De Goey has an extensive junior career behind him when he was drafted to Collingwood and a lot of us have been watching De Goey play in U18's. That gives us a right to predict how we think a player will go and none of us are claiming that we are authorities on the matter. Maybe we get it right or maybe we get it wrong but none of us go round boasting about how we got it right. Incidentally why do you think the Western Bulldogs paid so much money for Boyd given that Boyd hasn't done anything at AFL level yet (Answer: Look at his junior career)?

 

[TradeDraft]

Collingwood's decision to take Grundy was obviously a risk. For quite a few years we've taken the value. Even this year, while DeGoey and Moore are both premium picks, they represent value. They're not out of staters or carrying an injury, but DeGoey has had limited time in an elimite system and Moore was a father son that should have gone top 4

Grundy was a Top 5 Prospect in the 2012 Draft on Talent alone. So it was a Massive Steal at 18 and IF/When he starts dominating you see why it was a Steal

 

[Jelly Bean]

Grundy was a Top 5 Prospect in the 2012 Draft on Talent alone. So it was a Massive Steal at 18 and IF/When he starts dominating you see why it was a Steal

Dave, that is an opinion, and it is your opinion. It isn't the opinion of most of the recruiters who are paid to rank the talent.

 

[Markfs]

i have a real problem with the use of "tay". It makes my skin crawl....

 

[TradeDraft]

Dave, that is an opinion, and it is your opinion. It isn't the opinion of most of the recruiters who are paid to rank the talent.

Then - You Think Hine is an Idiot of Drafting Grundy Then

He was rated a top 5 Talent but Teams are Scared of Drafting Rucks Early because they take quite some time to Develop and Teams want Impact soon as possible. When you are close to a Flag you can trade Top Picks for a Mature Age Ruckman

 

[Jelly Bean]

Then - You Think Hine is an Idiot of Drafting Grundy Then

He was rated a top 5 Talent but Teams are Scared of Drafting Rucks Early because they take quite some time to Develop and Teams want Impact soon as possible. When you are close to a Flag you can trade Top Picks for a Mature Age Ruckman

Ummm... no, I don't think Hine is an idiot for recruiting Grundy. Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on my post.

What I said was there is no evidence that he was a 'top 5 talent' as you said. There is evidence to suggest his value at the time was more around the 18th pick mark... I'd like to understand from you why you think he was rated a top 5 talent (e.g. who rated him a top five talent, and why should I hold their rating over that of the recruiters?).

 

[mike123]

Hine would have been and idiot if he didn't take Tim Broomhead at 20. Grundy at 18 seems right. Full of potential but no tank. Phantom drafts are fanciful.

We also delisted most of our ruck stocks prior to that draft

 

[TradeDraft]

Hine would have been and idiot if he didn't take Tim Broomhead at 20. Grundy at 18 seems right. Full of potential but no tank. Phantom drafts are fanciful.

There where quite a few prospects we could of Drafted before Broomhead and no one would of Blinked an Eye lid.

Few to Mention are:

• Tim O’Brien
• Mason Shaw
• Tom Clurey

 

[ace andy]

I think you're missing the point here. Do you think players are plucked from oblivion when they are drafted? De Goey has an extensive junior career behind him when he was drafted to Collingwood and a lot of us have been watching De Goey play in U18's. That gives us a right to predict how we think a player will go and none of us are claiming that we are authorities on the matter. Maybe we get it right or maybe we get it wrong but none of us go round boasting about how we got it right. Incidentally why do you think the Western Bulldogs paid so much money for Boyd given that Boyd hasn't done anything at AFL level yet (Answer: Look at his junior career)?

Its not predictions that annoy me. Its some people that guarantee a player will be X like they are an absolute authority. For example Nightmare gives his reasons why he likes players. He doesn't say player X will definitely have won a brownlow when his career finishes.

 

[noideaatall]

Its not predictions that annoy me. Its some people that guarantee a player will be X like they are an absolute authority. For example Nightmare gives his reasons why he likes players. He doesn't say player X will definitely have won a brownlow when his career finishes.

The perogative of any and every supporter is that they are an expert, an absolute authority on the team that they love. Whether or not most supporters are wrong most of the time has absolutely no bearing on the perogative.

 

[Hagla]

Its not predictions that annoy me. Its some people that guarantee a player will be X like they are an absolute authority. For example Nightmare gives his reasons why he likes players. He doesn't say player X will definitely have won a brownlow when his career finishes.

I don't remember seeing anyone make predictions like this about player X??? Player X is terrible, he can't kick or tackle and he will definitely be delisted at the end of the year! Bookmark it!

 

[Markfs]

Its not predictions that annoy me. Its some people that guarantee a player will be X like they are an absolute authority. For example Nightmare gives his reasons why he likes players. He doesn't say player X will definitely have won a brownlow when his career finishes.

It's not a true prediction unless number of brownlows and copelands are given. I see Broomhead coming equal 4th in the copeland next year. The year after he will miss 5 weeks with a soft tissue injury and have a drop in form on his return to the seniors....and end up 11th in the copeland...

 

[soreplums]

There where quite a few prospects we could of Drafted before Broomhead and no one would of Blinked an Eye lid.

Few to Mention are:

• Tim O’Brien
• Mason Shaw
• Tom Clurey

I know it's hindsight, but I would have taken broomy ahead of Kennedy. I still have high hopes for him, but I don't think he has it at the moment to hold a place in the midfield. With any luck, I'm hoping he turns into a Crawford/Harvey type player, but those two are aerobic beasts. He'll need to work hard to develop a tank to find himself in space to rack up some touches

 

[mike123]

I know it's hindsight, but I would have taken broomy ahead of Kennedy. I still have high hopes for him, but I don't think he has it at the moment to hold a place in the midfield. With any luck, I'm hoping he turns into a Crawford/Harvey type player, but those two are aerobic beasts. He'll need to work hard to develop a tank to find himself in space to rack up some touches

I would have taken Tom Clurey ahead of Ben Ken.

 

[MISFITS]

I would have taken Tom Clurey ahead of Ben Ken.

Pick 21 - Nathan Hrovat would have been a bette pick than Ben Ken!
A similar argument could be mounted about James Stewart over Jackson Ramsey!