Phantom draft 07 Vinnie's picks

[Bonuspoints]

Sorry to put you on the spot here Vin, but I wanted to know what the thinking was behind your picks. thought it might make for some interesting discussions amongst us Pies fans.

For those that don't know here are his picks:

ROUND #1
Pick 10 - Collingwood - Jack Grimes - Utility/Centreman - 187cm 76kgs - Northern Knights

Collingwood need to address the midfield, and most importantly the aging and declining Scott Burns, Shane O'Bree and Paul Licuria.

Jack Grimes does that. He's a relatively solid pick, and while he may not have the physical talents, he is a vocal leader, and he goes about his footy the right way. Good size for an inside role at AFL level at 187cm, and has reasonable skills for a player as almost exclusively inside as he projects to be at AFL level.

Most of all, this is a character pick - This is a kid who has his head on right, goes in tough, and won't fail for lack of trying.

McEvoy was strongly considered to solve the backup ruck issue, but ultimately I went with the midfield, and particularly a guy in Grimes who may be able to contribute as of 2008.

ROUND #2
Pick 26 - Collingwood - Dawson Simpson - Ruckman - 207cm 97kgs - Murray Bushrangers

Might be a bit early for him by some calculations, but I rate his potential as very high, and I think that he has already shown plenty of improvement this season as it has progressed. I didn't rate anyone else on the board in another position highly enough to want to chance Simpson being available later.

He still doesn't get much of the ball around the ground, but his mobility and skills are decent for a kid of 207cm, so I'm banking on being able to learn to get involved around the ground a bit more, but you can't coach size into a kid.

Collingwood has it's ruck development project.

ROUND #3
Pick 42 - Collingwood - Zane Murphy - Onballer - 182cm 85kgs - Tasmania

He's hard at it, can find the ball, uses it well on both sides (particularly deadly on his left), and has a strong body, ready for AFL football. He is on the slow side - There's no denying that, but he ticks all of the other boxes that you need to succeed at AFL level.

I like this kid a fair bit, and with Whitecross gone with the previous pick, the other player I was considering at this spot was taken out of the equation, which made the selection that much easier.

Happy to pick up Zane.

ROUND 4#
Pick 58 - Collingwood - - Brad Gilder HFF/Onballer - 183cm 84kg - Sandringham Dragons

Like this kids versatility - Averaging 25 possessions a game in the TAC Cup, but also plays on a HFF and is very capable of snagging a goal or two up forward as well as winning possessions through the midfield. He also tackles like a beast, with many games up around the 10 tackle mark this year.

Concern over his disposal would be the main one, I suppose, but he has been up and down this year, rather than consistently average, so there is hope that poise will come with experience and maturity.

I actually rated him at my last pick, but given that I've heard very little spoken about him around these parts, I thought he was a pretty even money bet to be around here.

ROUND #5
Pick 74 - Collingwood – Rhyce Prismall- Wing/Half Forward – 189cm 86kg – Western Jets

Was expected to do better this year, after being unlucky to miss out last year in the draft. He certainly hasn't been quite as good as one might have expected out of him this year, but he's still been reasonably good.

He's been up and down for much of the year, particularly with regards to finding the ball, disposal effectiveness and his workrate without the footy, but he's got a lot of talent, and down in this range (which is probably starting to get towards rookie draft candidates, in a way) he's the kind of project teams will look for.


For the complete list

 

[PiesForPremiers]

Sorry to put you on the spot here Vin, but I wanted to know what the thinking was behind your picks. thought it might make for some interesting discussions amongst us Pies fans.

For those that don't know here are his picks:

ROUND #1
Pick 10 - Collingwood - VVegas69 - Jack Grimes - Utility/Centreman - 187cm 76kgs - Northern Knights

ROUND #2
Pick 26 - Collingwood - VVegas69 - Dawson Simpson - Ruckman - 207cm 97kgs - Murray Bushrangers

ROUND #3
Pick 42 - Collingwood - VVegas69 - Zane Murphy - Onballer - 182cm 85kgs - Queensland

ROUND 4#
Pick 58 - Collingwood - VVegas69 - Brad Gilder HFF/Onballer - 183cm 84kg - Sandringham Dragons

ROUND #5
Pick 74 - Collingwood - VVegas69 – Rhyce Prismall- Wing/Half Forward – 189cm 86kg – Western Jets

For the complete list

Would be Reasonbly Happy with that espically with the 1st 2 Picks

 

[swiftdog]

Would be happy with that. Ben McEvoy instead of Grimes maybe?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Would be happy with that. Ben McEvoy instead of Grimes maybe?

We really need mids more than KPPs at the moment. I think Vinnie did pretty well. Was hoping for Normington with our third pick but he got snapped up.

 

[didaka]

Good selections Vinnie. Would be happy with this outcome.

It's probable that we will selected Jaxon Bahram as a father-son. You'd think around 3rd round.

Really want Dawson Simpson.

 

[WakeUpPies]

imagine if we got a 207 cm ruckman!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[didaka]

imagine if we got a 207 cm ruckman!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would the West Coast list be so happy????

 

[Thommo 42]

shouldn't we get pick 16?

 

[Dazman]

Touche

 

[FIGJAM]

It's probable that we will selected Jaxon Bahram as a father-son. You'd think around 3rd round.

Didn't even get picked up in the whole phantom. Will be interesting to see where he's valued (if at all).

As I have said previously, the system is likely to blow out the value of Barham types (ie. not Hawkins types), as nobody will want to commit too early due to opportunity cost.

I reckon we'll have four picks, and if we want Barham, he'll be able to be picked up with our last one.

 

[krisholio14]

You''l find Barham has probably been left out of this one as it is likely, but not confirmed, the Collingwood will take him somewhere. I know I didn't consider him for that reason.

You'll find he will be in the real phantom draft for sure.

If I was a Pies fan I'd be more than happy to come away with those players in the real thing.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Didn't even get picked up in the whole phantom. Will be interesting to see where he's valued (if at all).

You''l find Barham has probably been left out of this one as it is likely, but not confirmed, the Collingwood will take him somewhere. I know I didn't consider him for that reason.

Yep - Spot on diablo.

Guys like Taylor Walker and Darcy Daniher going at #46 and #59 is nowhere near a reflection of their real values - It's just that when you're making your lsits and thinking about who you rate, it's hard to look at guys who you know you won't be able to draft in the real deal.

I left Barham out because I wanted to see where others would draft him, if at all.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Sorry to put you on the spot here Vin, but I wanted to know what the thinking was behind your picks. thought it might make for some interesting discussions amongst us Pies fans.

For those that don't know here are his picks:

ROUND #1
Pick 10 - Collingwood - Jack Grimes - Utility/Centreman - 187cm 76kgs - Northern Knights

Pick 26 - Collingwood - Dawson Simpson - Ruckman - 207cm 97kgs - Murray Bushrangers



ROUND #3
Pick 42 - Collingwood - Zane Murphy - Onballer - 182cm 85kgs - Tasmania

ROUND 4#
Pick 58 - Collingwood - - Brad Gilder HFF/Onballer - 183cm 84kg - Sandringham Dragons




ROUND #5
Pick 74 - Collingwood – Rhyce Prismall- Wing/Half Forward – 189cm 86kg – Western Jets


VV's first pick is solid but if the rest of our draft consisted of the players he's picked I'd spew up. Dawson Simpson way to early and whilst he'll be good at the center bounces he doesn't have much of a clue around the ground, he's a late 3rd round pick at best. Zane Murphy has talent but one of the worst bodies you have ever seen and we should be sticking well clear of these types after the "Shaq" experience, future captain-coach of Wynyard. Gilder is average at everthing and an average Tac player won't cut it at AFL level. And Rhyce Prismall is yet to do anything of note in 2007 and has gone backwards. He's been on the scouts radar for a long time but just doesn't have the production and it's hard to recall the last good game he played where he had any kind of impact. You come away fron watching his games almost always disappointed. The big misses were David Myers, don't think he's just a half back flanker, he played there for WA and his league WAFL side but he plays his colts on the ball, 190cm midfielders are highly valued and he won't last pick 7 or 8. And McEvoy won't get past St Kilda and is right in the mix for the Bulldogs first choice.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Round one David Myers
two Marlon Motlop
three Jaxon Barham
four Best young ruckman available
Would be to much to hope for. This years crop will be hard to predict as evidenced by the BF mock draft which is all over the shop. The good players run out in the middle of the second round and after that it will be impossible to predict where players will go, even for an expert. Lots of small forwards, Ruckmen and flanker types that will be all hard to separate.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Round one David Myers
two Marlon Motlop
three Jaxon Barham
four Best young ruckman available

That would do so little to address our needs it's ridiculous.

Appreciate your difference of opinion, but you can only pick best available for so long.

Besides, this is the trial - Not the actual phantom draft. This is part of an exercise to get 100 names down, not an indication of who I'd actually take for Collingwood. Although I speak about need, mostly it was about getting names of players I rate into the order.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Sorry to put you on the spot here Vin, but I wanted to know what the thinking was behind your picks. thought it might make for some interesting discussions amongst us Pies fans.

For those that don't know here are his picks:

ROUND #1
Pick 10 - Collingwood - Jack Grimes - Utility/Centreman - 187cm 76kgs - Northern Knights

Pick 26 - Collingwood - Dawson Simpson - Ruckman - 207cm 97kgs - Murray Bushrangers



ROUND #3
Pick 42 - Collingwood - Zane Murphy - Onballer - 182cm 85kgs - Tasmania

ROUND 4#
Pick 58 - Collingwood - - Brad Gilder HFF/Onballer - 183cm 84kg - Sandringham Dragons




ROUND #5
Pick 74 - Collingwood – Rhyce Prismall- Wing/Half Forward – 189cm 86kg – Western Jets


VV's first pick is solid but if the rest of our draft consisted of the players he's picked I'd spew up. Dawson Simpson way to early and whilst he'll be good at the center bounces he doesn't have much of a clue around the ground, he's a late 3rd round pick at best. Zane Murphy has talent but one of the worst bodies you have ever seen and we should be sticking well clear of these types after the "Shaq" experience, future captain-coach of Wynyard. Gilder is average at everthing and an average Tac player won't cut it at AFL level. And Rhyce Prismall is yet to do anything of note in 2007 and has gone backwards. He's been on the scouts radar for a long time but just doesn't have the production and it's hard to recall the last good game he played where he had any kind of impact. You come away fron watching his games almost always disappointed. The big misses were David Myers, don't think he's just a half back flanker, he played there for WA and his league WAFL side but he plays his colts on the ball, 190cm midfielders are highly valued and he won't last pick 7 or 8. And McEvoy won't get past St Kilda and is right in the mix for the Bulldogs first choice.

Bit harsh I suspect.

I wouldnt have taken Grimes so early but VV is right in thinking we need an inside midfielder. to that end you could have thrown a blanket over Grimes, Greenwood, Collier. Myers is a very good footballer and if you picked on best available I suspect he would be in front of Grimes. Personally I had a feeling grimes would be there at round 2 but you cannot take the chance if you think thats what you want. If he wasnt there by Rd 2 then all the good inside mids would have been gone and VV would have been critisced for not replacing Licca, Holland and Burns.

Re Myers. I am doing ports and I was very keen to take Myers but Port need a CHF.

Taking Murphy is a move i liked. Another inside mid who is as tough as nails. I saw a couple of his champ games and he was good. More impressive than Zorko mine.

Simpson is an outstanding pick - I know a couple of us were ready to pounce as the upside is enormous.

Tend to agree on Gilder but VV aint stupid and time will be the judge.

At Prismalls pick you could easily build a case he was best available. Prismall was excellent last year and plenty of good footballers have been in that position (ala Travis Boak who had a pretty ave run home in TAC last year)

I think he's done well.

 

[ChipDouglas]

That would do so little to address our needs it's ridiculous.

Appreciate your difference of opinion, but you can only pick best available for so long.

Besides, this is the trial - Not the actual phantom draft. This is part of an exercise to get 100 names down, not an indication of who I'd actually take for Collingwood. Although I speak about need, mostly it was about getting names of players I rate into the order.

I think these players do do address our needs, Myers can and will play midfield in the future but is outside at the moment just like Buckley was. He'll break into the AFL on a flank then morph into a mid as the years go on the same way Buckley developed his inside skills. Motlop can play inside and out and is a highly regarded midfield prospect although you wouldn't think so according to the BF mock draft. Myers will be long gone by the time our first round pick arrives any one of Grimes, Veszpremi, Motlop or Selwood will be in the mix for us and I'd be happy with any of the four.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I really don't see any inside midfield potential at all for Myers - If he makes it as a midfielder, which is hardly a guarantee at this stage, he'll only ever be an outside mid, IMO. I really don't think he will be long gone by our pick - That's implying that he'll be a Top 7 selection, and maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see it.

Motlop, as admitted by just about all of us, was forgotten for a while. I actually had him on my board at #26, but I was committed to a ruckman at that stage. I do rate him though, although I'm not quite as sure about his versatility as a midfielder as you are - Seems like at best he would have the kind of class inside that Pendles has, but without the real aggression at the contest that a true inside midfielder has.

Of course, this is the trial version - The real deal is going to be a lot different, particularly from me, as I have a new perspective on how we should draft strategically, and it will almost certainly bear almost no resemblance to this one, which should be very much to your liking, Chip

Just ask Snoop Dogg if he thinks I've been honest about my picks

 

[Snoop Dog]

VV has a few things up his sleeves.....he's done well.
Chip - Not sure where you see Myers playing inside mid. Not sure he would be recruited in that. I see what you mean when comparing to Pendles - he has developed that side of his game. Pendles never had that at Gippy in 05.
Motlop will go top 20 when the real deal comes....but not as an inside mid. Working in traffic is not his go.
Selwood will drop IMO. VV - what is the gap between those two blokes do you think?
The one I am struggling to place is Vespremi and Maric.
personally I would have Motlop ahead of Maric but both inside top 20-25.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Selwood will drop IMO. VV - what is the gap between those two blokes do you think?

Selwood and who?

 

[Snoop Dog]

Selwood and who?

Sorry Selwood and Grimes. While your at it throw in Greenwood and Collier. Interested in your ranking of them. My thoughts/explanation would be;

Collier - Versatile, in and out, kicks goals, Skilled / fit Jobe Watson.
Greenwood - skills ? but gets it in and out and kicks goals
Grimes - just think Burns I guess. No x factor but no weakness. good leader
Selwood. - as above, just not quite as good maybe??

Very close though.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Sorry Selwood and Grimes. While your at it throw in Greenwood and Collier. Interested in your ranking of them. My thoughts/explanation would be;

Collier - Versatile, in and out, kicks goals, Skilled / fit Jobe Watson.
Greenwood - skills ? but gets it in and out and kicks goals
Grimes - just think Burns I guess. No x factor but no weakness. good leader
Selwood. - as above, just not quite as good maybe??

Very close though.

1 Grimes (Very good player, will initially break into a side as a half back flanker then move into the midfield. the knock on him is hs'e a bit one paced)
2 Collier (Not a player we should be looking at but big improver on last years efforts where he was critisized for being soft. Every club passed on him last year but this year will more than likely go late first round. Hawks and Roos both looking hard at him)
3 Selwood (During VC's practice match against a huge Bullants magoos team he wasn't afraid to take it up to anyone who crossed his path. His games at half back have been good but his potential as a genuine AFL extractor is better, still bottom age)
4 Greenwood (Certainly hard enough but why does he always kick the ball as far as he can? Mature body but not as much scope for improvement as the others)

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Sorry Selwood and Grimes. While your at it throw in Greenwood and Collier. Interested in your ranking of them. My thoughts/explanation would be;

1 Grimes (Very good player, will initially break into a side as a half back flanker then move into the midfield. the knock on him is hs'e a bit one paced)
2 Collier (Not a player we should be looking at but big improver on last years efforts where he was critisized for being soft. Every club passed on him last year but this year will more than likely go late first round. Hawks and Roos both looking hard at him)
3 Selwood (During VC's practice match against a huge Bullants magoos team he wasn't afraid to take it up to anyone who crossed his path. His games at half back have been good but his potential as a genuine AFL extractor is better, still bottom age)
4 Greenwood (Certainly hard enough but why does he always kick the ball as far as he can? Mature body but not as much scope for improvement as the others)

Agree with all of this entirely.

Spot on my thoughts with Grimes, Selwood and Greenwood. Greenwood isn't in the mix for a 1st round pick, IMO.

Collier is one that we shouldn't touch in the 1st round - If he was available in the 2nd round, I'd find it hard to turn him down though.

In terms of a comparison between Selwood and Grimes, I'd say that Grimes has better leadership potential, and is maybe a longer (although not necessarily better) kick than Selwood, while Selwood is a more natural midfielder (you'd hope so, it runs in his blood, clearly) and as such, slightly more adept at the clearances at this stage.

I'd say their pace is probably about the same, with Selwood maybe a little bit quicker. They were definitely the two main mids I was considering once I decided not to go with McEvoy, and to be honest I would still consider swapping them, I have them on that even a level.

It will be interesting to see how Grimes tests out at DC this year - If he can record a 20m time around the 3.00 mark, he should go reasonably high. Unluckily for Selwood, he recently fractured the leg, so he may not be fit to participate at DC.