Priority Picks fair?

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by kahuna71
oh, and if you can provide stats on how many single mothers with 7 children own a mercedes, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Everyone is responsible for their own choices.

Joffaboy · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Yes i went to school, but you know that's kind of the legal thing in this country isn't it? Not like i had much of a choice when i was 6.

Well Deej, you have been given handouts. End of story.

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Give it up kahuna - Deej's argument has been blown to bits. All you will get is the poor victim, you lot are welfare recipients rant, with, may I add, absolutely no proof to back up his wild claims.

Straws are being clutched.

Straws being clutched what the???

Goddard, Riewoldt, Ball, Hamill, Gehrig, Koschitske, Clarke.....all from standing in the dole queue. That aint straws mate that's handouts by finishing low on the ladder. FACTS. PROOF.

Jars458 · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
You don't know me and never will and if you said that to my face you'd be sitting on your arse in about 2 seconds flat.

You just proved his point with that statement

Violence is no solution. Tut tut deej.

If you had to hit everyone who thinks you are a tosser you would have sore knuckles.

nutbeennn · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by utility
Very concise and hard to argue with. Not only do clubs with priority picks benefit from the picks they get, they disadvantage every other club.

What disadvantage.....
Those you mentioned plus sam power and richard cole came before Del Santo and i would take del santo before all those mentioned.

And in the 2002 draft goddard was no 1 and Jarrad Rivers no 27 - who would you be taking right now ?

it is easy to argue with....because there is no guarantee that early draft selections means great footballers ..Sampi was taken very early but i would rather have medhurst at 56..and a moylan at 9 looks nowhere near as good as Harris at 71as a KPP.
And i hark back again to the Luke Ball VS Luke Hodge choice - Hawthorn got it wrong and Stkilda got it right. Yes - it is half an advantage to have early draft picks..the key is picking the right cattle and i suggest that Stkilda have picked the right cattle better than most.

Yardie · May 10, 2004

Me thinks that this is has turned into more of an attack against Grant Thomas then the Saints and their priority picks. (Otherwise why not keep having a go at the other teams that got the picks)

The Saints list management has been exceptional and this is due to Grant Thomas. He may not be the best coach in the comp but he is up there as one of the best managers.

Joffaboy · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Hey everyone, you know what? I wouldn't have anywhere near as much a problem with this saints situation right now if you'd only be honest with yourselves and just say yep we admit it we're not a strong enough club to compete with most of the other clubs and we need these handouts to compete and ok it might not be a stkilda team dominating on their own merits in an open competition but it's all we're capable of doing so we'll take it. I wouldn't agree with that stance but i'd respect it just a fraction more than this living in denial thing most of you seem to have.

Thats it, you are a *****ing idiot

The competition hasn't been open for nearly twenty years you completely hysterical tool.

SHow us one dollar that the AFL has handed us?

Look at our profit, look at our membership increase, look at our merchandise, look at our ave game attendance for this year, look at where we are on the ladder. Now look at your club, cheats and whingers, going nowhere,can't compete stuck at that pathetic ground and with idiots supporters like yourself who are so in need of success that they bemoan the fact that others who work hard (as JeffDunne pointed out probably much harder than you in our Pres and coach) get reward for that hard work.

Your jealousy is pathetic so is your myopic and imbicilicly hypocritical arguments.

Enjoy your time out of the eight, Deej, hope your fragile little ego can cope.
But you can always come on here and big note about your millions of dollars and material success. Sounds as though thats all you have pal.

kahuna71 · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
I never told you how much i make you clown.

shortest. memory. ever.

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Yardie
Me thinks that this is has turned into more of an attack against Grant Thomas then the Saints and their priority picks. (Otherwise why not keep having a go at the other teams that got the picks)

The Saints list management has been exceptional and this is due to Grant Thomas. He may not be the best coach in the comp but he is up there as one of the best managers.

Freo are draft bunnies too.

nutbeennn · May 10, 2004

2001 draft

1 Luke Hodge Geelong U18 Hawthorn
2 Luke Ball Sandringham U18 St Kilda
3 Chris Judd Sandringham U18 WC Eagles
4 Graham Polak East Fremantle Fremantle
5 Xavier Clarke St Marys St Kilda
6 Ashley Sampi South Fremantle WC Eagles
7 David Hale Broadbeach Kangaroos
8 James Bartel Geelong U18 Geelong
9 Luke Molan Geelong U18 Melbourne
10 Sam Power Oakleigh U18 W Bulldogs
11 Richard Cole Eastern U18 Collingwood
12 Brent Reilly Calder U18 Adelaide
13 Nick Del Santo Bendigo U18 St Kilda
14 Ashley Watson Bendigo U18 Kangaroos
15 Barry Brooks Tasmania U18 Port
16 Rick Ladson Bendigo U18 Hawthorn
17 James Kelly Calder U18 Geelong
18 Shane Harvey Northern U18 Essendon
19 Jason Gram Gippsland U18 Brisbane
20 Daniel Elstone Bendigo U18 Hawthorn
21 Matt Maguire Geelong U18 St Kilda
22 Mark Seaby West Perth WC Eagles
23 Charlie Gardiner Sandringham U18 Geelong
24 Steve Johnson Murray U18 Geelong
25 Steven Armstrong Perth Melbourne
26 Aaron Rogers NSW-ACT U18 Melbourne
27 Tom Davidson Geelong U18 Collingwood
28 Mark Powell Murray U18 Sydney
29 Lewis Roberts-Thomson NSW-ACT U18 Sydney
30 Rod Crowe Sandringham U18 Kangaroos
31 Joel Reynolds Geelong U18 Essendon
32 Campbell Brown Oakleigh U18 Hawthorn
33 David Rodan Calder U18 Richmond
34 Simon OÕKeefe Murray U18 Essendon
35 Jarrad Wright Woodville-West Torrens Brisbane
36 Sam Mitchell Box Hill Hawks Hawthorn
37 Leigh Montagna Northern U18 St Kilda
38 Ashley Hansen Oakleigh U18 WC Eagles
39 Justin Davies Murray U18 Carlton
40 Gary Ablett junior Geelong U18

So far Judd is the pick of the bunch.
MacGuire at 21 looks good
Kelly at 17 has been better than bartel at 8
Luke Moylan at no 9 - ewwww - lots of injuries but looks like a no-no
Sam Mitchell is out of form at the moment but he was revelation last year.

looking at this list shows that early is good but you still have got to get your choices right. Its a turkey shoot

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Thats it, you are a *****ing idiot

Why because i speak the truth? That's what this thread amounts to, I'm saying it like it is and you lot are getting defensive and abusing me. I get abused so i abuse back, that's it in a nutshell.

kahuna71 · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Everyone is responsible for their own choices.

good, then Carlton are responsible for losing their draft picks and missing out on Goddard then by cheating the salary cap. Only six million more flaws in your arguments and 4000 more posts to go...

Joffaboy · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Straws being clutched what the???

.....Goddard...... Hamill, . FACTS. PROOF.

Yeah thanks for them Deej, and Carlton.Thanks Elliot for humiliating Hamill and cheating on the draft so we could pick up Goddard.

Dont they look great in red white and black???

Hows Walker and Stevens going?

Just think if it was the old system you could have bought all the players you mentioned

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by kahuna71
Carlton are responsible for losing their draft picks and missing out on Goddard then by cheating the salary cap.

Correct. although in an open system this would never have been an issue would it.

kahuna71 · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Why because i speak the truth? That's what this thread amounts to, I'm saying it like it is and you lot are getting defensive and abusing me. I get abused so i abuse back, that's it in a nutshell.

saying it like it is in your own head doesn't make it right, just right for you.

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Yeah thanks for them Deej, and Carlton.Thanks Elliot for humiliating Hamill and cheating on the draft so we could pick up Goddard.

Dont they look great in red white and black???

Hows Walker and Stevens going?

Just think if it was the old system you could have bought all the players you mentioned

Or we could have skillfully negotiated and enticed them through selling our club to them, stuff like tradition, success, greatness blah blah. But the point is we never got a chance with any of them because of the restraints that the rules of the game have created.

Joffaboy · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Why because i speak the truth? That's what this thread amounts to, I'm saying it like it is and you lot are getting defensive and abusing me. I get abused so i abuse back, that's it in a nutshell.

No,it because you are a ****ing idiot. Everyone here has shot you imbicilic arguments down, but you continue with your inaccuracies.

If you dont like the AFL rules

a) challenge them in court
b) **** Off and watch some other code.

You sound like a child that has had their candy taken off them.

Oh and BTW - pay back the handouts given to you at school you bludger.

The AFL can do without stupid opinions such as yours.

kahuna71 · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Correct. although in an open system this would never have been an issue would it.

correct, but it isn't and you can't blame us for the gift you gave us. everyone knows the rules. you can't break the rules and then use 'but if the rules weren't there it wouldn't have been wrong' as a defence, as convenient as that may be.

Joffaboy · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Or we could have skillfully negotiated and enticed them through selling our club to them, stuff like tradition, success, greatness blah blah. But the point is we never got a chance with any of them because of the restraints that the rules of the game have created.

Or just chucked more money at them which is the Carlton "tradition". Bought premiershps.

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Joffaboy
No,it because you are a ****ing idiot. Everyone here has shot you imbicilic arguments down, but you continue with your inaccuracies.

If you dont like the AFL rules

a) challenge them in court
b) **** Off and watch some other code.

You sound like a child that has had their candy taken off them.

Oh and BTW - pay back the handouts given to you at school you bludger.

The AFL can do without stupid opinions such as yours.

Do you live in la la land joffa? Nobody has shot nothing i've said down. All you've done is be a smart alec and thank elliott for giving you hamill and goddard. That aint shooting nothing down buddy, it's just smart alec internet waffle.

JeffDunne · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Hey everyone, you know what? I wouldn't have anywhere near as much a problem with this saints situation right now if you'd only be honest with yourselves and just say yep we admit it we're not a strong enough club to compete with most of the other clubs and we need these handouts to compete and ok it might not be a stkilda team dominating on their own merits in an open competition but it's all we're capable of doing so we'll take it. I wouldn't agree with that stance but i'd respect it just a fraction more than this living in denial thing most of you seem to have.

Why would we admit we aren't a strong enough club?

Did we almost win a flag in '97 because of handouts? No. But, a couple of bad decisions over the following years and we're back in the outhouse. Sounds a bit like your mob Deej. Almost won a flag, some bad decisions, and look were you are.

The system now is based on a draft and salary cap. That is the system that everyone works under. We have no more had decisions in our favour than any other club (and I’d argue less so). This is the same system your club is now using because there is no other choice.

In fact, Carlton were banned from the first two rounds of the draft this year and last. So why the hell the priority pick? I think you’ll find the AFL changed their ruling to suit your club. Can’t remember ever changing a rule in our favor.

Where we are now has nothing to do with our history. Nothing to do with handouts. It is the system, if you don't like it, argue the point and not your pathetic attempts to slander our club. I'd think you'd call it "tarnishing the brand".

And there in essence is the difference between me and you. For you, they are a brand, for me they are a club. And the great thing about football clubs is that they are inclusive. I know it's hard to fathom when you follow a club like Carlton, but football clubs allow their members to even vote. Democracy is the foundation of any successful free enterprise system, aristocracies are dead. You need to get with the times.

Deej · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by kahuna71
correct, but it isn't and you can't blame us for the gift you gave us.

Glad you're acknowledging they were a gift you got for free, which is essentially a handout ala dole queue ala everything i've spoken about in this thread.

skipper kelly · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by kahuna71
and that's got what exactly to do with the size of your wallet? or is it perhaps more to do with the size of your ego...

from my experience most people that talk about it havent got it.

MarkT · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Deej
Rubbish they did. They went out and targetted certain footballers that gelled brilliantly and got them a flag or two, just as many high priced recruits across history have been abject failures.

More in fact have probably been failures but that doesn't change anything. 10 failures don't invalidate the 1 success, The point is that in reality money does help but North got their money of what they needed by enterprise rather than "birthright". IMO what this, one of the few instances of successful cheque book recruiting, proves is that you need the admin before you need anything. North did prosper from buying talent who played for money but they used enterprise to engineer and fund it and they had a great administration in place to do it and to control it. It simply proves that even when money did buy a premiership it was only an ingredient. On many occasions clubs have had the money but not the management and they have faltered. Collingwood and Richmond in the 80's is the classic illustration.

FWIW I reckon Carlton in 1987 was close to a purchased flag with a huge influx of interstate talent plus a few recruits from other clubs. I don’t know why you get defensive about that though. The club was the best run club in the AFL at the time.

skipper kelly · May 10, 2004

Originally posted by Third Ring
To use your analogy, if you asked people about paying tax, a large majority would say they are happy to do so, as long as everyone is treated the same, with some concessions for the more needy. I will happily support someone in need of help.

However, most people will object to having to pay more than someone who 'unfairly' pays less or who gets more.

Show me someone who happily pays tax while Kerry Packer doesn't and while 3 generations of a family live off handouts down the beach.

The priority picks are too concessional.

What kind of handouts are you referring to in relation to te beach people?

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