List Mgmt. Problems with our List going forward

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Midfielders are the first group of players to receive all the accolades when teams are winning, but when losing, the defense or forwards cop the criticisms.

Our forwards were never the big pack marking players. They were allowed to excel with the forward entries we had. We hit up the lead and loose players around the 35-45m mark in the previous years. If we had the ball outside 50, we'd centre it and look for the short option.

I don't recall seeing any of that late in the season after we were on top, 2 games clear. We were bombing it in long hoping that we suddenly had a pack marking forward that we never knew about.

To me, this showed our midfield were losing control of the games. Unable to get the ball clear to our runners to be in space and deliver a pass under little pressure. We were constantly under pressure going forward and had to bomb away.

Our midfield is the area that needs youth to come through. Mitchell's decline in form, due to teams starting to tag him, coincided with our drop down the ladder.

Next year, we cannot have Hodge and Lewis in there.

Excellent sum up of our situation this. Hope the club's decision makers also sees it the same way.

 

[Hawthorn United]

I'm interested to see where people think Lewis and Hodge play if Mitchell and a fit O'Meara play in 2017. They have been great warriors but the end is close IMO, both still skillful and willing but Hodgey is very slow and Lewis has lost his acceleration and some top end. Can't see them dropping Shiela. I believe we'll see a fair bit more change in the team next year and feel excited by what we'll see. Conor Glass, Burton, Lovell, Brand, Heatherly, Mitchell x 2 and JOM (maybe) then make or break years for JOR, TOB and a few others would indicate that there will be a lot of players desperate to stay in the AFL/transition into the next era and hopefully make us hungry for it next season.

Lovell is going to be good and needs games and will get them next year. If anything it ensures there is pressure to hold spots through the midfield. I think we will be around the mark.

I think Hodge in the backline. He can be that third man up, and relieve Gibson of that role so he can be that running defender. Hodge may not be quick or agile enough in the forward line to keep the pressure on so they don't rebound it out easily.

Lewis is cooked. He made Ceglar look like Usain Bolt in a chase against North Melbourne.

 

[flinchfree]

.................. hard nuts like Langford and Woody killing it at Box Hill.

You're having a lend, right?
Woody barely got back to play some footy the last part of the season, and Langford was o-r-d-i-n-a-r-y.

 

[robs_drunk]

people need to stop worrying about contested possesion

you can't win contested possesions when you have the ball and are kicking across the field to free players

as well we don't heavily handball through congestion much we prefer to knock on and kick of ground in that area.

these parts of our game plan already drives down our contested numbers.

As well as our plan to heavily pressure the kick in to turning it over for us

What we need to be better in is clearances at stoppages, high balls in defence (missing Lake) and another strong long forward target (missing roughy) other then resting ruckman (too obvious when going in)

Omeara and mitchell improve the clearances so much we might be able to only need to improve the others slightly to have a real crack at next years

 

[Hawthorn United]

2-4 after round 20.

The experienced can no longer help. We need to get games into kids. Lots of games.

And the 2 wins we did have, we beat Colingwood by 1 point and North we won it from 1.5 quarters of footy. We were very ordinary in Q2 and Q3 but lucky for us, North were worse.

 

[Gunstall555]

I think the #1 stat any side is looking for when it comes to the contest is retained clearances (or when you have been able to clear the ball without turning it over). Dominating this stat is how a coach can prove his worth.

 

[flinchfree]

imo the quality of the list is as such (as of 2016 season) (over 27yrs old not added)

A-Graders (Star Player)
Shaun Burgoyne
Sam Mitchell
Jordan Lewis
Jarryd Roughead*
Cyril Rioli
Isaac Smith
Jack Gunston (25 yrs old)

B-Graders (Good Player)
Grant Birchall
James Frawley
Ben McEvoy
Ben Stratton
Luke Breust (26 years old)
Paul Puopolo
Brendan Whitecross
Jonathan Ceglar (26 years old)
James Sicily (22 years old)
Kaiden Brand (22 years old)
Ryan Burton (19 years old)
Bradley Hill (23 years old)
Luke Hodge
Josh Gibson

C-Graders (Fringe/Low Value 1st 22/ Untried Potential - Player)
Liam Shiels (25 years old)
Taylor Duryea (25 years old)
Ryan Schoenmakers (26 years old)
Daniel Howe (21 years old)
Kieran Lovell (19 years old)
Marc Pittonet (20 years old)
Kurt Heatherley (20 years old)
Blake Hardwick (19 years old)
Teia Miles (potential b-grader/ yet to debut) (20)
Jono O'Rourke (22 years old)
Jack Fitzpatrick (25 years old)
Will Langford (24 years old)
Billy Hartung (22 years old)

D-Graders (Below Average Player)
Matt Spangher
Angus Litherland (24 years old)
Tim O'Brien (22 years old)
Dallas Willsmore (21 years old)
Zac Webster (21 years old)

Well that was brave of you.

 

[Hawthorn United]

people need to stop worrying about contested possesion

you can't win contested possesions when you have the ball and are kicking across the field to free players

as well we don't heavily handball through congestion much we prefer to knock on and kick of ground in that area.

these parts of our game plan already drives down our contested numbers.

As well as our plan to heavily pressure the kick in to turning it over for us

What we need to be better in is clearances at stoppages, high balls in defence (missing Lake) and another strong long forward target (missing roughy) other then resting ruckman (too obvious when going in)

Omeara and mitchell improve the clearances so much we might be able to only need to improve the others slightly to have a real crack at next years

Yes and no in regards to contested possessions. I don't think our game style means we'll win it, but we aren't setting up to get smashed in it.

It's also not just about looking at the numbers, but seeing how the game unfolds and using the numbers to back it up the story, rather than be the story.

Against the Bulldogs, they smashed us. Our taps, kick off the grounds weren't effective. Hodge went the hack off the ground and went straight to Suckling on his own at the edge to our 50m. Hill went the kick off the ground in Q3, totally missed it and the they manage to lock it in for a ball up. If he had picked it up, he had metres in the clear.

 

[Goodo73]

people need to stop worrying about contested possesion. you can't win contested possesions when you have the ball and are kicking across the field to free players.

Now it could be that contested ball numbers ARE the be-all and end-all ... I dunno. However, I think the stats junkies in the media (yep I'm lookin at you Kingy) focus on particular stats IN ISOLATION, and fail to consider how that stat is a reflection of the team playing style (for good or ill).

Omeara and mitchell improve the clearances so much we might be able to only need to improve the others slightly to have a real crack at next years

I think we all need to careful in just assuming JOM and/or Titch will make their way to us next year.

 

[ACTion Hawks]

It is a shame this thread is not looking forward, so much as whinging about this year.

Let me ask - which other team could lose arguably their best players and still have a more successful home and away season than the previous won (in terms of number of wins)? How would Geelong have gone if Dangerfield or Selwood was out? How about GWS and Mummy? Sydney and Judas or probably more important to them - Josh K? Doggies and the Bont?

How lucky are we to look at our team and even contemplate disappointment in a season where we won 17 games! And yet the sky is falling in?

There is no doubt that we finished the year off poorly - probably due to the fact that the players had put in so much effort into getting into the top 4 in the first place to cover those that were unable to play. How about getting over the mental hit that having one of the leaders and general good guy of the club being hit by such a horrible illness? And yet for all that we were one kick out of the prelim and probably would have gone into that game as favourite!

Now appears to be the time to consider our list full of b, c and d graders! Pleeeaaassseee!

Get a grip people. Yes, we do need some work, and by all reports we are looking into it, but we definitely do NOT:

1) need to follow the example of North Melbourne.
2) clear out all our mature players.
3) jump on the grave of this golden era

 

[Great 2008]

Think he's been enjoying the weeks off on the buggy and scoffing down the party pies. Still looks like he could play though and would love him out there.

To be fair he's in a lot better condition than I thought he would be. Still see him ballooning out in 5 years

Hope he got a free?

 

[Chubberson]

I think Hodge in the backline. He can be that third man up, and relieve Gibson of that role so he can be that running defender. Hodge may not be quick or agile enough in the forward line to keep the pressure on so they don't rebound it out easily.

Lewis is cooked. He made Ceglar look like Usain Bolt in a chase against North Melbourne.

Only place he can play now I agree. Yeah, the game has flown past Lewis this year, two of my fave players but time waits for no one. I thought Gibbo, Mitch and Burgers were fantastic for the most part and Stratton had a bloody great year too.

 

[Goodo73]

Let me ask - which other team could lose arguably their best players and still have a more successful home and away season than the previous won (in terms of number of wins)? How would Geelong have gone if Dangerfield or Selwood was out? How about GWS and Mummy? Sydney and Judas or probably more important to them - Josh K? Doggies and the Bont?

To be fair, the Dogs were hit pretty damn hard with a spate of injuries early in the year, which at the time was considered a death knell to what looked like a great season ahead.

 

[realhawk]

people need to stop worrying about contested possesion

you can't win contested possesions when you have the ball and are kicking across the field to free players

as well we don't heavily handball through congestion much we prefer to knock on and kick of ground in that area.

these parts of our game plan already drives down our contested numbers.

As well as our plan to heavily pressure the kick in to turning it over for us

What we need to be better in is clearances at stoppages, high balls in defence (missing Lake) and another strong long forward target (missing roughy) other then resting ruckman (too obvious when going in)

Omeara and mitchell improve the clearances so much we might be able to only need to improve the others slightly to have a real crack at next years

Most clearances wins result from also winning the contested possession , so if we want more clearances we have to get better at contested footy.

 

[realhawk]

Only place he can play now I agree. Yeah, the game has flown past Lewis this year, two of my fave players but time waits for no one. I thought Gibbo, Mitch and Burgers were fantastic for the most part and Stratton had a bloody great year too.

Lewis was just about our best player in the final against the cats, he had almost 40 posseis , but was tired against the dogs.

 

[Qlder_19]

Lewis was just about our best player in the final against the cats, he had almost 40 posseis , but was tired against the dogs.

Copped a shoulder injury early in the game

 

[realhawk]

It is a shame this thread is not looking forward, so much as whinging about this year.

Let me ask - which other team could lose arguably their best players and still have a more successful home and away season than the previous won (in terms of number of wins)? How would Geelong have gone if Dangerfield or Selwood was out? How about GWS and Mummy? Sydney and Judas or probably more important to them - Josh K? Doggies and the Bont?

How lucky are we to look at our team and even contemplate disappointment in a season where we won 17 games! And yet the sky is falling in?

There is no doubt that we finished the year off poorly - probably due to the fact that the players had put in so much effort into getting into the top 4 in the first place to cover those that were unable to play. How about getting over the mental hit that having one of the leaders and general good guy of the club being hit by such a horrible illness? And yet for all that we were one kick out of the prelim and probably would have gone into that game as favourite!

Now appears to be the time to consider our list full of b, c and d graders! Pleeeaaassseee!

Get a grip people. Yes, we do need some work, and by all reports we are looking into it, but we definitely do NOT:

1) need to follow the example of North Melbourne.
2) clear out all our mature players.
3) jump on the grave of this golden era

Don't. Forget how big a loss cegs was. He would kick a goal or so per game , provide a bale out marking option down the line and bring the ball to ground up forward. If he was in against Geelong we would be playing this week. Injury and personnel are still just about the most important issues in the game. With our lack of quality talls he was one guy we couldn't afford to lose.

 

[sven_inc]

All we need is an elite KPF, very good ruckman/forward an elite KPD and 3 elite mids and we are set...

Can we find another Roughead, Hale, Lake, Hodge, Mitchell and Burgoyne this offseason?

Vickery - Hale
Mitchell - Mitchell
JOM - Burgoyne

KPF?
KPD? (Brand?)
Elite Mid? (Burton or Lovell?)

Any on our list already?

 

[Chubberson]

Lewy and Hodge are still good but its obvious now the long season is affecting them. No disrespect meant to those guys but now more than ever it seems they need a rest every 5 weeks. 'Jumping on the grave' seems a little disproportionate, no one has said 'useless' or 'over the hill' but they're going to need close management next season.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Lewy and Hodge are still good but its obvious now the long season is affecting them. No disrespect meant to those guys but now more than ever it seems they need a rest every 5 weeks. 'Jumping on the grave' seems a little disproportionate, no one has said 'useless' or 'over the hill' but they're going to need close management next season.

That's why I thought the pre-finals bye would be an advantage for us. I think they can still contribute, but they'll be phased out of the midfield. Pinch hit in there one at a time, not together.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

That's why I thought the pre-finals bye would be an advantage for us. I think they can still contribute, but they'll be phased out of the midfield. Pinch hit in there one at a time, not together.

Hodge can play back but where do you play Lewis. Its midfield or not much else for mine....

 

[Gralin]

Hodge can play back but where do you play Lewis. Its midfield or not much else for mine....

lewis covers a lot of ground, is a good field kick and good set shot and mark. He could rotate through the forward line potentially, I also wouldn't judge him on the last game as he got injured early.

 

[Whats a Battle]

This thread proves what I have been saying for a long time, and that is that we have a lot of fickle supporters, who, after the club delivers 3 straight flags, they know more than the coaches and club. They would be the same people who would tell a chef in a five star restaurant they were doing it wrong.

There have also been some very good posts here, and it is only the minority that are idiots.

I think that might be due to the amazing success the club has had. So many of us started following in the 80s, when we won flag after flag, so the tiniest little bump in the road is a major disaster.

I started following the Hawks in the Schwab era, so I expect nothing...

 

[Thaihawk]

I think that might be due to the amazing success the club has had. So many of us started following in the 80s, when we won flag after flag, so the tiniest little bump in the road is a major disaster.

I started following the Hawks in the Schwab era, so I expect nothing...

I wonder how many others on here were following the Hawks in 1950, when we didn't win a game.

 

[Gralin]

I think that might be due to the amazing success the club has had. So many of us started following in the 80s, when we won flag after flag, so the tiniest little bump in the road is a major disaster.

I started following the Hawks in the Schwab era, so I expect nothing...

but those of us who grew up in the 80s lived through the Schwab era after the almost merger. We've experienced the highs and the lows. One of my most enduring memories is Lethal being chaired off crying after 85, it's the moment I remember most from the early 80s