Conspiracy Theory Proof 9/11 was an Inside Job?

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

I never said that the Bush administration orchestrated it..... I said the US.... when you discover who controls the US ie... who controls the money then you will know who controls the US.

The US is controlled by Debt... someone is benefiting from it.

Oh I've seen Zeitgeist too and that theory has been thoroughly discredited.

 

[nut]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Oh I've seen Zeitgeist too and that theory has been thoroughly discredited.

where???

 

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

This link relates specifically to Part III but the site looks at the entire film and highlights the huge amount of errors and just plain misinformation that is presented as fact . . .

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-three/

There are heaps more sites and a quick two minute search on Google will give you more than you need to know that the movie, while entertaining is very light on the truth and facts - replacing them with speculation and manipulation.

 

[EasternTiger]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

FFS

Just as I thought there was some progress being made, we're back to zeitgeist and conspiracyscience.

 

[nut]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

This link relates specifically to Part III but the site looks at the entire film and highlights the huge amount of errors and just plain misinformation that is presented as fact . . .

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-three/

There are heaps more sites and a quick two minute search on Google will give you more than you need to know that the movie, while entertaining is very light on the truth and facts - replacing them with speculation and manipulation.

wow looks credible.... there is no argument that the Federal reserve bank is not privately owned..... that what I'm getting at.

 

[EasternTiger]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

My personal belief.... and it's my own theory only.... is that the Towers were wired along time ago with explosives... maybe even when they were built. So we could have another Pearl Harbour.

nut, some of us have spent months angling back and forth, dealing with inane psycho analysis from bloods and rebutting shit straight out of the 'how to destroy a truther' handbook, so we can bring the discussion to a point where both parties can move forward.

Wired up when the towers were built? C'mon man that's the reason ODN tries to lump all of us in with the truthers to further his argument. No one believes the twin towers were wired up during construction.

 

[nut]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

nut, some of us have spent months angling back and forth, dealing with inane psycho analysis from bloods and rebutting shit straight out of the 'how to destroy a truther' handbook, so we can bring the discussion to a point where both parties can move forward.

Wired up when the towers were built? C'mon man that's the reason ODN tries to lump all of us in with the truthers to further his argument. No one believes the twin towers were wired up during construction.

Well I believe that the towers were wired along time ago.... stemming from the failed attempt in 1993... no proof just a feeling I have.

Seriously if you wanted to piss the yanks off as much as possible why would you not take out the empire state building or the statue of Liberty.

Aftr the 93 attack, the increase in sercurity made it impossible for a repeat attempt from below. They wanted a controlled fall.

 

[H2F]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

When you add up all the things that had to happen for 911 to occur then it becomes impossible not to see that the U.S were involed.

77 minutes of hijacked planes from the first crash to the last.

Not one single scrambled jet??? This is not possible whatever their excuse.

They knew, and they helped...

 

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

When you add up all the things that had to happen for 911 to occur then it becomes impossible not to see that the U.S were involed.

77 minutes of hijacked planes from the first crash to the last.

Not one single scrambled jet??? This is not possible whatever their excuse.

They knew, and they helped...

Not only is it possible but given the outdated defense protocols and systems in place at the time in hindsight it difficult to see how it couldn't have happened.

Remember before 9/11 the United States was really only concerned with an attack from abroad. Due to the cold war and the threat from the USSR etc. the defense and security strategies had grown more and more outward looking. The threat of an attack from inside the borders of the US was seen as very low. Particularly an attack that could be as devastating as what 9/11 eventually was.

In fact, at the time of the attacks, the Bush administration was trying to divert even more funds away from internal security and into a revamp of Reagan's "Star Wars" program. Why then go and plan an attack which highlights the weaknesses of US internal security. Why not plan an attack that will reinforce the nations need for higher external defense. The pseudo attack could be launched directly from Iraq who've secretly been building WMDs. The attack could even be thwarted at the last minute by some kind of ingenuity on the Bush administrations part. Still some kind of brilliant destruction like the WMDs being intercepted and captured on camera, being destroyed out to sea, but visible from the coast . . . Bingo! There would be no loss of life, the Government would look like heros, the American people would be up in arms and virtually demand an Iraq invasion and the Bush admin would have all the funds they need diverted into a complex "Star Wars" Network to increase their defenses from external threat. As we have seen, any denials from Saddam and his cronies would be simply dismissed, perhaps even "spun" by the lap dog media provoking immediate action.

Another hugely significant factor is that the terrorists had studied these weaknesses and exploited them to their fullest. Things like turning off the transponder and the effect that would have on tracking the craft; the fact that at the time of the attacks there were no Air Defense Identification Zones within the US, only outside it's borders. The terrorists had studied everything about US defense protocols and weaknesses from the very early planning stages and into the final hours of 9/11.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Onto your second point about Occams Razor.


Ok lets see how this plays out.

We have 2 competing theories.

theory 1. A plane hit this building

theory 2. A missile hit this building.

Now watch the clip.

[youtube]TAaP4Z3zls8[/youtube]

Apply Occams Razor to what you've seen. What's the simplest theory that explains what you have seen with your own eyes. Now that's a very simplistic way of applying it, but I believe that's the basic premise of the Razor.

That looks just like a blur and difficult to make anything substantial out of.

Though when you slow it down you can make out the top of the plane and the stabilizer fin. The white streak trailing it is obviously smoke billowing from one of the engines damaged when it struck the lamp post on the nearby highway.

 

[JeffDunne]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Another hugely significant factor is that the terrorists had studied these weaknesses and exploited them to their fullest.

This is one aspect of the investigation that was never proven but gets repeated all the time.

It certainly wasn't proven in in the context of Al Qaeda, terrorist training camps, OBL & Afghanistan generally. Watch the 'Caves' video featuring Rumsfeld earlier in this thread if you didn't catch it already. Despite all these claims about a sophisticated enemy we have seen zero evidence of it. Quite the opposite actually.

Every attack since 9/11 has been crude in comparison. Ridiculously so. Now I'm sure people will claim that's because of security efforts, but again I'd ask, why not show us these sophisticated plans that were thwarted? They have no problem parading people like the blokes that claimed they were targeting the MCG (which again was a laughably inept plan) yet we've seen no evidence of this supposed sophistication.

People are prepared to believe all manner of theories on how the Egyptians built the pyramids, due in large part because they seem beyond what most understand of their technology. I'm in no doubt this is the same seed that leads to 9/11 conspiracy theories.

It is very hard to connect the dots between what we see and what we're told.

 

[stickman11]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

nut, some of us have spent months angling back and forth, dealing with inane psycho analysis from bloods and rebutting shit straight out of the 'how to destroy a truther' handbook, so we can bring the discussion to a point where both parties can move forward.

Wired up when the towers were built? C'mon man that's the reason ODN tries to lump all of us in with the truthers to further his argument. No one believes the twin towers were wired up during construction.

George Bush Jnr Brother's company was head of security for World Trade Centres. Even removed the bomb sniffer dogs jsut before the attacks. Plenty of time to set up some firecrackers to bring down the building.

 

[NitroFan]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

George Bush Jnr Brother's company was head of security for World Trade Centres. Even removed the bomb sniffer dogs jsut before the attacks. Plenty of time to set up some firecrackers to bring down the building.

It was never 'his company', and as of June 2000 he was no longer a director and by the end of that year he no longer held any shares. After 1998 that company had nothing to do with bomb sniffing dogs or running security for the complex. They had a contract to design some kind of security system.

 

[stickman11]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

It was never 'his company', and as of June 2000 he was no longer a director and by the end of that year he no longer held any shares. After 1998 that company had nothing to do with bomb sniffing dogs or running security for the complex. They had a contract to design some kind of security system.

No, he left not long before and headed the insurance company that made a bucket load of money from the collapse of the twin towers.

 

[NitroFan]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

What part of my post are you saying no to? He was no longer a director as of June 2000 and by the end of that year no longer held any shares. That's not even up for debate. And him "heading" (the same way Securacom was "his comapny"?) an insurance place has nothing to do with what I wrote, or what you originally wrote that I replied to.

Would you care to provide a source for your claims about this insurance comapny he "headed"? My understanding is HCC actually lost tens of millions of dollars from the collapses.

 

[Pie eyed]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

What part of my post are you saying no to? He was no longer a director as of June 2000 and by the end of that year no longer held any shares. That's not even up for debate. And him "heading" (the same way Securacom was "his comapny"?) an insurance place has nothing to do with what I wrote, or what you originally wrote that I replied to.

Would you care to provide a source for your claims about this insurance comapny he "headed"? My understanding is HCC actually lost tens of millions of dollars from the collapses.

I think his last post was more of a.........

Stickman11. "No!!!"

Brain. "I've been exposed posting rubbish. Must carry on as if nothing has happened. Must make wilder, less accurate claim than the last. That should keep them off the scent."

Stickman11. "He left not long before and headed the insurance company that made a bucket load of money from the collapse of the twin towers."

Brain. "PHeww!!!"

 

[Daytripper]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

No, he left not long before and headed the insurance company that made a bucket load of money from the collapse of the twin towers.

Not only is the above 'fact' blatantly incorrect, can you also please explain how an insurance company 'MAKES' money when an unexpected disaster or calamity occurs ?

Of course they would take out reinsurance as well but all insurance companies would be exposed to the risk of the unexpected. That's the nature of the business.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Yet another nail in the Truster coffin.

Former CIA Asset (sic) Susan Lindauer shatters the government’s lies about 9/11 and Iraq. Listen here...

http://www.radiodujour.com/mp3/20110104-kevin-barrett-susan-lindauer.mp3

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

I never said that the Bush administration orchestrated it..... I said the US.... when you discover who controls the US ie... who controls the money then you will know who controls the US.

The US is controlled by Debt... someone is benefiting from it.

Follow the money eh? Makes sense. But every nation is in debt. Who is the creditor?

Though when you slow it down you can make out the top of the plane and the stabilizer fin. The white streak trailing it is obviously smoke billowing from one of the engines damaged when it struck the lamp post on the nearby highway.

Obviously
If you can make that out from the clip then freeze the frame, post it and end the worldwide speculation.

If anyone believes one of the most secure (if not the most) building in the world has only that clip available I've got a bridge I'm looking to sell cheap.

 

[nut]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Follow the money eh? Makes sense. But every nation is in debt. Who is the creditor?

The Privately owed Federal reserve Bank of America. The same Bank who's owners also own most of the Military Manufacturing plants in The US.....

 

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Obviously
If you can make that out from the clip then freeze the frame, post it and end the worldwide speculation.

If anyone believes one of the most secure (if not the most) building in the world has only that clip available I've got a bridge I'm looking to sell cheap.

I could natter on incessantly about it and try to go through it clip by clip but I've found a video that does it all in a much more thorough way. Remember, this clip uses mathematically accurate computer modelling from state of the art industry standard software. It uses only the evidence as collected at the site of the crash and as observed by eyewitnesses...

[YOUTUBE]YVDdjLQkUV8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

I could natter on incessantly about it and try to go through it clip by clip but I've found a video that does it all in a much more thorough way. Remember, this clip uses mathematically accurate computer modelling from state of the art industry standard software. It uses only the evidence as collected at the site of the crash and as observed by eyewitnesses...

[youtube]YVDdjLQkUV8[/youtube]

The point I'm making is why the need to release computer modelling? The amount of cameras providing coverage on this building must number in the hundreds.
These guys have been accused of the most heinous act and cannot provide one still showing an aircraft.
The fact they released that particular clip proving nothing is, in and of itself, rather damning.

judge: You have been accused of murder. What say you?
def: I'm completely innocent and I have undeniable proof.
judge: Present this evidence to the court.
def: err, no........but I am innocent.

All rather Simpsons to me.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

The point I'm making is why the need to release computer modelling? The amount of cameras providing coverage on this building must number in the hundreds.
These guys have been accused of the most heinous act and cannot provide one still showing an aircraft.
The fact they released that particular clip proving nothing is, in and of itself, rather damning.

judge: You have been accused of murder. What say you?
def: I'm completely innocent and I have undeniable proof.
judge: Present this evidence to the court.
def: err, no........but I am innocent.

All rather Simpsons to me.

Pfft . . .

def: . . . and here is the best footage we have of the incident, plus a computer model to support it. Also, here is a plethora of physical evidence and finally eyewitness testimony from the crash site.
judge: . . . I still don't believe you and would rather listen to the prosecution's moronic shadow chasing and speculation, no matter how absurd!

I'm sure the number of cameras does number in the hundreds. But contrary to what 911 truthers would have us believe, the vast majority of them would have been monitoring areas nowhere near the crash site. I have no idea how many cameras were in use at the Pentagon on the day but even if there were 500 cameras devoted entirely to the exterior wall of the section that was destroyed, almost all of them would have been monitoring entry points such as doors and windows and hence would have been facing away from the approaching aircraft anyway.

"Oh, how convenient" I hear the eternal truther muttering.

Convenient indeed, when you consider that is exactly what the purpose of a security camera is. It is there to monitor and observe any potential suspect activity at the entry points and allow intruders to be apprehended. They are not installed to monitor the skies, or even the grounds to detect possible threats from the air.

Any external threat like a missile or suicide bomber would have been expected to have been picked up by the larger, national security network and monitoring systems. At the time there would have been very little reason to have had any security cameras monitoring anything but the building walls and entry points. The few that monitor the grounds beyond the building would almost entirely be concerned with entry points such as boom gates etc (ie. the one that has been released).

However, I agree and am sure there would be maybe a hand full of other cameras that did record the impact also. I wouldn't be surprised though if these are even worse quality or show even less than what has been released. Why release them? So the public can decide if they're relevant or not? The film that has been released shows everything, it shows the plane, it shows the approach vector, it shows the impact. It even shows the smoke from the damaged engine. On top of this we have computer models as well as the overwhelming physical and testimonial evidence to support it. Yet there is still contention in the increasing minority of the 911 truther community.

Instead the 911 truther, with only speculation, ignorance and theory to support them, will cling to the most ridiculous of notions with the fervour of a religious zealot and claim they know the truth.

Here's a Simpsons quote (I offered this earlier in the thread but is even more apt here):

"Well, you sure don’t look 25, but your unlaminated, out-of-state driver’s license is proof enough for me"

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

The story so far...

You made a definitive claim regarding the clip.
I asked why don't you freeze clip at relevant frame and post it.
You backpedaled like a drunken clown on a unicycle by making a whole host of new unsubstantiated claims then engaging in abuse to avoid proving you haven't made shit up.

Pfft . . .

def: . . . and here is the best footage we dare release of the incident, plus a computer model we whipped up to support it. Also, here is a plethora of physical evidence and finally eyewitness testimony from the crash site.
judge: . . . I still don't believe you and would rather listen to the prosecution's moronic shadow chasing and speculation, no matter how absurd!

I'm sure the number of cameras does number in the hundreds. But contrary to what 911 truthers would have us believe, the vast majority of them would have been monitoring areas nowhere near the crash site. I have no idea how many cameras were in use at the Pentagon on the day but even if there were 500 cameras devoted entirely to the exterior wall of the section that was destroyed, almost all of them would have been monitoring entry points such as doors and windows and hence would have been facing away from the approaching aircraft anyway.

"Oh, how convenient" I hear the eternal truther muttering.

Convenient indeed, when you consider that is exactly what the purpose of a security camera is. It is there to monitor and observe any potential suspect activity at the entry points and allow intruders to be apprehended.

Yes of course the pentagon is so secure to deter burglars.

They are not installed to monitor the skies, or even the grounds to detect possible threats from the air.

Any external threat like a missile or suicide bomber would have been expected to have been picked up by the larger, national security network and monitoring systems. At the time there would have been very little reason to have had any security cameras monitoring anything but the building walls and entry points. The few that monitor the grounds beyond the building would almost entirely be concerned with entry points such as boom gates etc (ie. the one that has been released).

Notwithstanding footage taken from local businesses overlooking impact site which were confiscated, hidden, and not returned - is this simply your opinion, further hallucinations on your part, or the facts? If you claim facts then you wouldn't mind stating the source, would you?

However, I agree and am sure there would be maybe a hand full of other cameras that did record the impact also. I wouldn't be surprised though if these are even worse quality or show even less than what has been released.

What was wrong with the one released? You managed to make out an incredible amount of detail from it did you not?

Why release them? So the public can decide if they're relevant or not? The film that has been released shows everything, it shows the plane, it shows the approach vector, it shows the impact. It even shows the smoke from the damaged engine.

See - you even managed to discern that not only there was smoke, not only that the smoke was from a damaged engine, but that it was obviously from a damaged engine.

On top of this we have computer models as well

Ahhh yes the computer model from the truthers...oh wait

as the overwhelming physical and testimonial evidence to support it. Yet there is still contention in the increasing minority of the 911 truther community.

You sure about that? If so you don't mind providing any evidence. Don't be shy, just post it.

Instead the 911 truther, with only speculation, ignorance and theory to support them, will cling to the most ridiculous of notions with the fervour of a religious zealot and claim they know the truth.

Well Sherlock, your powers of deduction are astounding.

I simply stated that if you can make out what you claim then freeze the frame and end worldwide speculation.

From that - and only that - you have deduced I am an eternal truther, using speculation and theory only, assisted by ignorance, clinging to a notion - a ridiculous one no less - and with the fervour of a religious zealot. You also managed to deduce that I claim to know the truth when I only asked a question and YOU made claims of truth based on the clip.

Which, it has been duly noted, you failed to prove. Slip your mind?

Here's a Simpsons quote (I offered this earlier in the thread but is even more apt here):

"Well, you sure don’t look 25, but your unlaminated, out-of-state driver’s license is proof enough for me"

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
Instead of abusing me and whining like the jet plane you claim to see why don't you freeze the frame as I asked and not only end all speculation but pwn me?
Unless you have lied to everyone on this thread you are already in possession of the means to do so (and lets face it, after this bawling out it would be satisfying, no?)

 

[Helicopter Punt]

Re: Proof 911 was an Inside Job?

Not only is it possible but given the outdated defense protocols and systems in place at the time in hindsight it difficult to see how it couldn't have happened.

Remember before 9/11 the United States was really only concerned with an attack from abroad. Due to the cold war and the threat from the USSR etc. the defense and security strategies had grown more and more outward looking. The threat of an attack from inside the borders of the US was seen as very low. Particularly an attack that could be as devastating as what 9/11 eventually was.

What a crock.
Did you know what defense exercises were being performed that morning?