Opinion Q&A with Tim Lawrence - Lachie's manager - chapter 2

[Arcassius]

BettercallSaul asked - Tim if you are interested in managing a old, bald, fat bloke with no discernible talent please let me know. Be quick there are other offers.

Tim says -

I look at him every morning in the bathroom mirror and I haven't done a great job managing him over the years!!

Surely with a profile name like yours, you should have every aspect of life covered?

 

[Arcassius]

Allikat asked - I wanted to know, obviously the club's start to the year was a big surprise to just about everyone, but did Lachie's form come to a surprise to himself, his management and/or the club. He's stepped up massively this year and his form has been a real shining light for the supporters. Did his big jump in form affect any of the negotiations?


Tim says -

Thanks Allikat for your question.

This is going to sound really arrogant but no, his form did not surprise us. I have been fortunate now to work with him closely for 6 years and I stopped being surprised with what he does about 4 years ago. He is just so driven and dedicated and as I have mentioned previously, he doesn’t take things for granted and has had to work hard for everything he gets. We all know he still has lots of room to improve so he can get better, so rest assured he has further to go.

Whilst not part of the plan, obviously with negotiation delayed until the first 1/3 of the season was underway, well, we all know what good form does to contracts so that was a nice little bi-product of the plan.

 

[Arcassius]

schnoods asked - with the speculation and public exposure with trading in regards with Josh Jenkins this season, Lin Jong having tours with the Pies and Dustin Martin having tours at GWS in previous seasons, How come Fremantle and Lachie came to a mutual understanding and a contract extension so easily with minimal rumours getting around? Was there alot of Journalists who prodded around finding nothing other than brick walls or was there just nothing to report on until the deals was done? Also the news that Lachie had re-signed was announced by the club first, how hard/easy was it to keep the big news under wraps?


Tim says -

Quite simply we just chose not to involve anyone else in what we were doing. The if the media enquired, we would tell them what was happening. The only thing we didn’t reveal all along was what other clubs had enquired about Lach – something we still won’t discuss even today. We kept a tight ship, kept things in house and only involved those who needed to be involved. So, pretty much we were pretty boring because we just kept telling the truth… which wasn’t very exciting for some as it turned out!

Having said all of that, all the best plans can be bought undone and it was never going to be fool proof. We could do exactly the same thing again and it may not work as well – humans are humans and things can accidently get out of hand. It just worked well this time.

Actually, it wasn’t announced first by the club! The story broke over there less than 24 hours after we had agreed to everything – so at the final hurdle it did get out!! That then meant the club released something as soon as they could. It didn’t do any damage at all – just didn’t get the chance to announce it themselves – as they deserved to do.


editors note - it was this clever cookie - Jordan McArdle who let the cat out at the last jump

 

[clivenator26]

Tim says -

I know there have been a couple of questions around the media and some of the stories that came out so instead of answering them individually I might just do it in one hit.

The media is an integral part of the game. The game receives massive $ for the broadcast rights and fans love getting everything fed to them through different mediums. It creates the hype and ultimately helps turn the wheel to keep the game at the forefront of people’s thoughts.

So I was amazed at how poor some journalists are that get paid to report on the game. It is a blight on their industry and for the good journo’s who actually make the effort to investigate, make the calls, draw on their experiences and then write articles that actually have some factual basis (through research) with a smattering of rumour and experienced guessing around the topic.

You have one journalist in the print media over there who obviously doesn’t get a phone allowance because whilst he was happy to write some baseless, unfounded and incorrect stories at no time did he bother to pick up the phone and actually ask some questions. I probably wouldn’t have told him anything sexy (the truth never is) but at least he could then have written something with some factual correctness. He isn’t a journalist, he is just someone who gets paid to write fantasy stories in one of your state papers. J K Rowling should start looking over her shoulder because there is a new kid in town.

One journo called me (not for the first time) and then quoted me saying things I had never actually said… I had been warned about him and now I know why.

Some stories made us laugh and some stories made Lachie angry - especially the one about there being a problem between himself and the football department. It was utter crap (he didn’t call to verify either) and I received a few expletive filled text messages from Lach on what he wanted to do to him.

A lot, however, did ring and ask questions and reported truthfully (as always with a little bit of rumour milling but that’s cool) and they were good. You just learn who you are ok to talk too and then other journo’s who’s phone calls you will ignore in the future. It was important to just keep talking to each other and keep things clear and unemotional.

In regards to the question about the rumours causing angst between player and club (Okinakashi) , whilst we didn’t have that with Lachie’s negotiation (because of our transparent plan and communication) I have in the past called a football manager of a club to assure them that some media speculation was not being fuelled by us nor had we even been involved in it. This wasn’t during a contract process and was on the back of some random stories around the trade period.

I hope you found some solace in this response, clivenator26 ?

Thanks. Those comments about JK Rowling humoured me greatly, I may ring up Haggers and play a game guess who on Sunday!

 

[Freo Shark]

Tim
We saw with Ross when he joined us that there was a management conflict with both Harvs and Ross being with the same management. That was probably an unlikely occurrence that just happened to happen but how are such instances catered for now for a similar event - has anything developed or does it rely on a coach leaving a manager.

Also from a situation between players which is more likely to occur I.e where a player needs to get to another club but involves another player coming in both with the same manager. How are conflicts handled, are players represented by another rep but then hows that effect a players relationship with the manager?

 

[MadDocker]

Was it difficult to balance Neales commitment with his band, 1 Direction and the footy club during negotiations?

 

[Jezzitizle]

Hi Tim, thanks for doing this.

Were there any things that stood out about freo that you are able to share? The new facilities must be one. Ross aswell maybe?

Also, when other clubs are chasing contracted players, how hard do they push?

Is Lachie in love with footy or is it a job?

 

[Cameron_K]

Thanks for this once again.

Another question if possible, with Fremantle close to finishing their new facilities which from all reports are going to be industry leading, how much of an impact do these type of things have in players committing. Is this something Lachie would take into consideration? Also how big of a factor is the travel aspect for players when considering where they play?

 

[Halfbaked]

Thanks. Those comments about JK Rowling humoured me greatly, I may ring up Haggers and play a game guess who on Sunday!

Pleeeeeeeeese do

 

[Seppo]

Tim, how do you and Stride find new clients? Do you spend time with the scouts at U18 comps and get the youngs kids partnering with you before they get drafted?
Do the players come to you when the want to nominate themselves for the draft?

How often do you get AFL Players leaving their current player managers and come on board with you?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Fantastic read

 

[electricfeel]

Is Lachie looking for a girlfriend?

(kidding...sort of)

 

[Randomizor]

How do you handle a situation where it's looking unlikely that the club is going to offer a new contract and no other clubs are making offers?

 

[scon]

Tell Doghorn he's a gun then the Eagles recruiters read it in the West and pounce

 

[Arcassius]

Okinakashi asked - I'd love to know some of the non-football things players consider. You mentioned Lachie had 2 or 3 factors that weren't footy related.
Can you let us know what sort of things the players also consider (without being specific to Lachie or Freo necessarily)?

Tim says -

There really isn’t anything different to what they need to what we need.

Some things could be -

• Where their partner resides
• Homesickness
• Where their family is based
• Employment prospects after football is finished
• Does the club give them opportunity to develop away from the club (study etc)

I am sure whatever you would consider as important away from your place of important would be exactly the same as what AFL players think about.

 

[Arcassius]

freoextra asked - Tim, do you know of any current players that have expressed a desire to play for Freo next year. Names not required of course but could you advise if experienced or wa player etc.

Tim says -

I have three lads in this year’s draft who would love the opportunity to play for Freo! One of them is actually a Freo supporter too and has family in Perth…. Don’t worry I will be speaking to David Walls about all three of them

I won’t lie – I am not aware of any that want to go to Freo but please let me explain how limited my access to this knowledge is.

Pretty much the relationship between player and manager is primarily that – a relationship between the two and not necessarily between the player the company (as good as Stride is, of course!). So, I know what my boys want to do and where they are in life and their careers… but I don’t really know who JD, or Tom or Rohdey’s lads are up to. We don’t openly talk about it as a rule because, quite simply, we have a level of confidentiality that is required between ourselves and our clients.

Now, if there is a reason or we feel it is advantageous for us to share information internally (only with the players consent of course) we will but as a rule we kind of keep to ourselves.

A good example of sharing information was Lachie’s negotiations – I was talking to Lach and dealing with Fremantle, the media and contact from other clubs, JD would provide insight into the negotiation process, give advice (keep in mind he manages around a dozen players at Freo) and thoughts and also deal with come contact from other clubs when necessary and Tom Petroro, as our boss and the man with the most experience in our company we also engaged to give opinion and advice. This is something Lachie and I spoke about early and we agreed having Tom involved (JD is continuously a part or our ‘team’) would be beneficial to him. I oversaw the whole process but we had a lot of collective knowledge to throw up thoughts and ideas when necessary which, we felt, was going to help Lachie make that informed decision he needed. Trust me, the three of us (JD, Tom and I) probably felt like belting each other at times (ok, so those two wanting to belt me) but that was the beauty of it, we challenged each other, questioned things and made each other think…. All for the betterment of Lachie. It was brilliant. That’s the beauty of a larger, experienced company and another reason we don’t need the smoke and mirrors tactics.

But I have digressed, going back to the 4 year recruiting and trading model the club has implemented, identifying experienced players within a particular age profile (getting the list all hitting their prime age and experience at the same time is a big part of giving your best chance of premiership success) as well as potentially targeting players who were originally from WA. I don’t think I am speaking out of school when I mention those two things and identifying ‘local’ talent is something a lot of non-Victorian clubs do also.

So do I know of any players wanting to go to Fremantle (apart from my 3 young pups for this year’s draft?) no I don’t but it will come. They will come.

This might sound really strange but in my eyes, Fremantle are in a better position now to build sustainable, long term success now than they were 5 years ago when Ross joined them.

That was another box ticked off.

 

[Arcassius]

Freo Shark asked - We saw with Ross when he joined us that there was a management conflict with both Harvs and Ross being with the same management. That was probably an unlikely occurrence that just happened to happen but how are such instances catered for now for a similar event - has anything developed or does it rely on a coach leaving a manager.

Also from a situation between players which is more likely to occur I.e. where a player needs to get to another club but involves another player coming in both with the same manager. How are conflicts handled, are players represented by another rep but then how’s that effect a players relationship with the manager?


Tim says -

I am sure everyone remembers what Freo Shark is referring too but just as a quick re-cap; based on what was reported in the media). Mark Harvey is the coach at Freo, Freo contact Ross about coaching them (an offer had not been put to Ross by St Kilda) but instead of Freo taking the usual path of going through Ross’ manager (Craig Kelly I think?) they went directly to Ross… because Kelly managed both Harvey and Lyon and of course, giving Kelly the knowledge they wanted Lyon also gave him the knowledge his other client, Harvey, was going to lose his job. Besides the obvious conflict of interest and ethical dilemma around it, clients can only use their appointed manager to negotiate terms – unless they give written notice to their agent (which obviously spells the end of the professional relationship) but again, Lyon couldn’t do this because it would have given Kelly and Harvey the heads up, which he couldn’t do. So Ross negotiated his own terms under the cover of darkness (which he had to do) and that of course meant he broke his agreement with Kelly which lead to the demise of their professional relationship.

A very complex and messy situation and because of the fact we work in a small industry there is the chance these kind of things could happen.

The difficulty with this scenarios is the senior coaches are 1:1 – players are 1:40 so the impact there is potentially lessened. However, as part of AFLPA rules, we need to notify each player in writing (after the draft/trade period) if a new player to the club is also managed by ourselves not so much the company but the agent. E.g., If one of my boys in this year’s draft is taken by Fremantle, I need to let Lachie know in writing who they are. For me, it’s a bit unnecessary because all my boys know each other and they know who I have in this year’s draft (in some cases the older boys have spoken to them at some stage to see how they are going etc – we are like a big family) but it is an understandably necessary measure.

To be totally honest, I am not sure what I would do. The first thing I would do is seek counsel from my counterparts to come up with a strategy to support everyone. Because of the numbers of players involved in the industry (860 odd) it would be a highly unusual thing. What I do know is I wouldn’t sleep very well for a long time worrying about.

I am that stubborn I probably wouldn’t let it happen and find any way to protect my own I guess – that could be easier said than done.

 

[Arcassius]

Well written and thank you for your reply. Yes my post was tongue and cheek and rather blunt, to say the least.
I should have worded it differently. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your response as always was well thought out and answered a lot of questions.

We all know Fyfe is a champion player and we all love watching him on the field and at the age of 24, it definitely takes a different sort of person to achieve what he has.

From Tim - Good work and well handled, AAACockburn – he is special player and someone 17 other clubs would give anything for.

 

[AAACockburn]

From Tim - Good work and well handled, AAACockburn – he is special player and someone 17 other clubs would give anything for.

He is.
Just make sure JD shouts lunch for a week when he signs on the dotted line.

 

[PapaJ]

This is great, and now my thesis is finally done and other crap I've had to deal with, I'm able to read through and Tim, you are the best person I know in the business ... after Fyfe maybe?

Questions for Tim if he's still happy to:

1. Sounds like you build quite a rapport with the players you manage (including Lachie). Do you get attached to them and how do you handle disappointments when clubs are not willing to meet a players expectations, including when the inevitable end comes for example? Have there been moments where you get down on your knees and start begging on your players' behalf (joke BTW, but with element of truth)? Or have you just grown accustomed to the harshness of it all and just wear it when a club wont seem to budge.

2. Has a club (not a player), ever asked you or other people at Stride, to take on a player ... or would that be crossing a boundary?

3. One last one, with the McCarthy fiasco last year (and still hanging over this year of course), it brings to mind the issue of 'buyers regret'. How do you handle (if it has happened) where players have come to you after they've locked in a contract feeling they need a significant change to occur (not only or necessarily wanting out and leaving the club, but something big, like length of contract, or significant conditional changes etc.)?

 

[Scatter]

This is the most interesting read on BigFooty ever IMO, so insightful.
Thanks to all.

 

[Arcassius]

MadDocker asked - Was it difficult to balance Neale’s commitment with his band, 1 Direction and the footy club during negotiations?


Tim says -

Was it difficult to come up with this new, original, line of question MadDocker?

I watched Eddie Murphy’s ‘Raw’ late 1980’s tour on VHS the other night and that was fresher than the Harry Styles and Lachie stuff…

C’mon, your better than that. Plus you’ve obviously never heard Lach try and sing.

 

[Arcassius]

Jezzitizle asked - Were there any things that stood out about Freo that you are able to share? The new facilities must be one. Ross as well maybe? Also, when other clubs are chasing contracted players, how hard do they push? Is Lachie in love with footy or is it a job?


Tim says -

There were a number of things obviously that made us think that Fremantle was better than any other potential options – that’s why stayed.

As mentioned earlier, he is driven for success and the chance to play finals again and ultimately win a premiership was a big factor and one of those 5 key pillars I spoke about. Let’s face it I am sure this would have to be an important thing for any player! Plus he wants to keep getting better as an individual – to become a better player for the club.

So, the new facilities out at Cockburn was actually one of the things we asked Brad Lloyd to show us in Adelaide after the Adelaide game. I must admit I was really impressed with it all and whilst Lachie is obviously closer to the action, I think he was impressed also. Brad had some recent aerial photos of the training grounds and an up to date report on the progress of the training area. I think there may even be a chance they could be starting to use it earlier than expected which is great.

Having new, state of the art facilities to help him improve (and the rest of the playing group) was certainly a factor that was part of the decision.

As far as how hard clubs push, I can only really go on the experiences I have had which, because of the fact I have only been in this industry now for 6 years is still somewhat limited. However, I can say they are pretty good. Generally there is a phone enquiry (from the interested club) to get an update on how the player is going, are they happy, if they want to make a change we are interested – pretty casual stuff and if we say, ‘look he is happy’ or ‘we are well down the track with their club on a new contract’ etc that’s about it really. I always agree to let them know if things change at all – obviously I won’t 100% rule things out just in case there is a dramatic shift from the course the player is on with their current club. I am sure you all understand my thinking around that.

One thing I will say around the recent dealings for Lachie was that if we did speak to another club – even very, very informally – and we found out they had leaked it to the media, there was going to be a line put through them immediately. I won’t have my players going to a club that can’t be trusted and maybe this is me being a bit green to it all but I would have reservations about the person who leaked the information (not necessarily the club) and dealing with them in the future. If they put external pressure on one of the boys for their own self gain it wouldn’t end well for them I can assure you.

However, it didn’t happen because we didn’t really go there so it’s all a hypothetical.

Lachie loves footy. Whilst he doesn’t watch every game or watch every show, his finger is on the pulse with what’s happening. I guess watching other games and knowing who is performing well helps his preparation for when he plays against the teams. He also has a few mates who play also so he enjoys watching them also. I am a big one for the boys to have a life away from what they do also. I think it helps keep them fresh, balanced and remain in love with the game.

 

[Arcassius]

Cameron_K asked - Another question if possible, with Fremantle close to finishing their new facilities which from all reports are going to be industry leading, how much of an impact do these type of things have in players committing. Is this something Lachie would take into consideration? Also how big of a factor is the travel aspect for players when considering where they play?


Tim says -

I think I have touched on that first part of your question, Cameron_K, just before in regards to the new facilities.

For players who have been drafted to a WA club, travel is not an issue. Why? Because they don’t know any different. As far as Lachie is concerned, getting on a plane and flying for 8 hours every second weekend is just what you do to be an AFL footballer. It’s normal and it isn’t even something you discuss.

I think I may have said this 18 months ago in another Q&A we did but I think the travel factor – for players considering moving to WA from another club – is more of a factor if they are a bit older; they have a partner, kids etc and have experienced AFL life of only playing ‘away’ 3-4 times a year. So they do know the difference.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

MadDocker asked - Was it difficult to balance Neale’s commitment with his band, 1 Direction and the footy club during negotiations?


Tim says -

Was it difficult to come up with this new, original, line of question MadDocker?

I watched Eddie Murphy’s ‘Raw’ late 1980’s tour on VHS the other night and that was fresher than the Harry Styles and Lachie stuff…

C’mon, your better than that. Plus you’ve obviously never heard Lach try and sing.

Ouch