Preview R12: Changes vs. Sydney Swans

[Jeffcrowe]

Sure, Im happy to engage on this. I actually havent laughed at you (not publicly anyway). You started this little dick waving contest by calling my original observation "moronic". So take your licks mate.

Now you acknowledge that our ball movement has slowed. This is backed up by stats. CD's segment this week included stats for the whole season. Their analysis last week (after the Pies match) noted that our ball movement had changed significantly, it was a round by round analysis. I gather, after originally calling this observation "moronic", you now agree. Good, that's called personal growth, well done.

Now, sure, there are many ways to move the ball. Collingwood are the 5th slowest ball moving team at the moment. As CD points out, this does open the door slightly for forward half turnovers. But there is another major difference between us and Collingwood. Unlike them, we have stacked our forward line with leading, marking talls and creative smalls. Now, it's no secret that the best method to maximise this sort of structure is fast ball movement. You dont want oppo players dropping back to crowd the 50. Collingwood dont have this structure. So it would be simple minded to say "well Collingwood do it and look how successful they are".

So sure, when it comes to ball movement, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But we have shown ourselves more potent - due to our personnel - when moving the ball quickly and more vulnerable when slowing the game and keeping the oppo in it.

Big deal we are the best defensive side over the last 6 weeks. We have achieved this by substantially curtailing our scoring potency. We kept Port in the game doing so, we put no scoreboard pressure on Collingwood doing so, we let freo (a defensive, slow moving side) outscore us and we beat GWS in a low scoring slog. Our score differential has diminished and so has our UP stat. We have reverted to coalface contested footy. Nicks' fall back position.

We have 3 difficult games coming up and at that point we will have a pretty good dataset to assess the "gameplan". Let's hold fire until then shall we?

Agree , let’s hold fire until then like I said last week ie ‘let’s wait until after round 14’

One thing that Davis has brought from brisbane is an ability to change gears and play with some slower tempo , rack up some uncontested marks and control the ball

Another gear that I wouldn’t think nicks was ever going to bring himself , also at times this can actually help our scoring ..so slower ball movement doesn’t always mean ‘going defensive ‘ and at times might be a good thing for a 3 head tall forward line with some very good ground ball players

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Other clubs also have information not available to us, select differently, and win more.

How do they select differently? Evidence????

This Board has bitched and moaned that we constantly select older, more experienced players.

Compared to what? Playing the 23 youngest and least experienced players on our list?

Over the last 6.5 years

1) We have “given” the least games to 30+ year old players compared to the other 17 teams

2) We have “given” the least games to 100+ game players.

3) We have “given” the most games to players with less than 50 games experience.

4) We have “given” the most games to players 18-20 years of age.

Yes, we could have gone further but imho a sensible comparison is to look at how we compare to other teams. Not surprising, our teams this year have been older and more experienced than the last 5 years. We are also winning more games………..chicken or egg?

This week the 17th placed Richmond have SIX 30+ year players whilst we tie with the 18th placed Eagles with TWO 30+ year players.

Perspective?????

 

[Velvet George]

Exactly my point

You are doing the same just on other side of ledger

I mentioned this last week , look at the nuances and reasons why

But then when I bring up data this week I get this back

No Jeff, you pointed out we were the highest scoring team, which were weren’t, when it was noted we had gone more defensive. You then brought the weather into it to explain our lower scores.

Then you’ve patted Nicks on the back for being number 1 defence over the last 6 weeks and ignored the weather!

Meanwhile you’ve continued to ignore Nicks has said he’s changed the way we have played to reduce the scores against and that impact on our scoring.

 

[pjcrows]

Look at all the data you want.

Nicks has a 37.6% winning record after 117 matches, yet he coaches, selects and speaks with completely unwarranted arrogance and stubbornness.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Reverting to a slow, lower scoring gameplan just opens Nicks up to tight contests where he typically loses.

Brisbane moved the ball very slowly at times against the swans and couldn’t help but kick goals in the granny , pies aren’t a low scoring or fast ball movement side

There are nuances and times
to go fast and slow

No Jeff, you pointed out we were the highest scoring team, which were weren’t, when it was noted we had gone more defensive. You then brought the weather into it to explain our lower scores.

Then you’ve patted Nicks on the back for being number 1 defence over the last 6 weeks and ignored the weather!

Meanwhile you’ve continued to ignore Nicks has said he’s changed the way we have played to reduce the scores against and that impact on our scoring.

2nd highest scoring by a few goals

You ignored the weather re offence and I responded with defence

Facts are we are the no 1 ball movement team in comp after 11 rounds and best defence last 6 and you had some kind of hissy fit last week about reasons I’m not sure , mainly because you get angry after a loss but what’s even stranger not much happier after a win

 

[1990crow]

Brisbane moved the ball very slowly at times against the swans and couldn’t help but kick goals in the granny , pies aren’t a low scoring or fast ball movement side

There are nuances and times
to go fast and slow

2nd highest scoring by a few goals

You ignored the weather re offence and I responded with defence

Facts are we are the no 1 ball movement team in comp after 11 rounds and best defence last 6 and you had some kind of hissy fit last week anout reasons I’m not sure , mainly because you get angry after a loss but what’s even stranger not much happier after a win

Fagan and the Lions now how to win. Have good game plans for the situation.
We've proven over countless examples we don't.

 

[pjcrows]

I can't believe a conversation about the Crows' performances is being compared with Brisbane or Collingwood over the last few years. Like, what the f*ck are we even talking about

 

[Velvet George]

Brisbane moved the ball very slowly at times against the swans and couldn’t help but kick goals in the granny , pies aren’t a low scoring or fast ball movement side

There are nuances and times
to go fast and slow

2nd highest scoring by a few goals

You ignored the weather re offence and I responded with defence

Facts are we are the no 1 ball movement team in comp after 11 rounds and best defence last 6 and you had some kind of hissy fit last week about reasons I’m not sure , mainly because you get angry after a loss but what’s even stranger not much happier after a win

And around in circles we go, bring back the old
Jeff

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Fagan and the Lions now how to win. Have good game plans for the situation.
We've proven over countless examples we don't.

Yep so far

 

[Jeffcrowe]

And around in circles we go, bring back the old
Jeff

They’ve finally ruined you haven’t they

Who would have thought we’d sit in 4th spot with some good statistical indicators and you’ve spent 7 years waiting but still want to get mired in negativity

You do you though , look forward to some anger after a loss this week or some negativitiy after a win and consolidation in top 4

 

[pjcrows]

Yep so far

So you acknowledge that so far (over 117 games) we've proven we don't know how to win when it counts, yet support that same failed approach... again?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I can't believe a conversation about the Crows' performances is being compared with Brisbane or Collingwood over the last few years. Like, what the f*ck are we even talking about

* this year

Well , statistically better actually than those 2

Which is where this whole convo started last week re champion data if you want to keep up

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So you acknowledge that so far (over 117 games) we've proven we don't know how to win when it counts, yet support that same failed approach... again?

We are talking about 11 rounds of season and some statistics that some people are having trouble getting a handle on despite quoting

 

[pjcrows]

* this year

Well , statistically better actually than those 2

Which is where this whole convo started last week re champion data if you want to keep up

Well that was my point earlier. It's May.

 

[feenix67]

* this year

Well , statistically better actually than those 2

Which is where this whole convo started last week re champion data if you want to keep up

Statistically we haven't beaten anyone we didn't beat last year and haven't lost to anyone we beat last year. The only difference so far has been the fixture. Nothing has changed.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Well that was my point earlier. It's May.

Agree !

As I said last week let’s wait until after round 14 to delve into the stats and not get too negative or positive

As I said last week it’s a bit early

 

[pjcrows]

We are talking about 11 rounds of season

When we're discussing Nicks' coaching, approach to selection etc. surely you can understand why we can't just isolate a few weeks across multiple seasons to make a point? Our results are currently the same as last year.

If we could do that then Kenny Hinkley is the best coach of the last three decades.

 

[pjcrows]

Agree !

As I said last week let’s wait until after round 14 to delve into the stats and not get too negative or positive

As I said last week it’s a bit early

Please excuse my negativity (or perhaps honesty). If we win even one of the next three it'll be a complete reversal on anything we've seen since 2020.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

When we're discussing Nicks' coaching, approach to selection etc. surely you can understand why we can't just isolate a few weeks across multiple seasons to make a point? Our results are currently the same as last year.

If we could do that then Kenny Hinkley is the best coach of the last three decades.

I think you are misinterpreting re Nicks and my opinion there

But if you think our results ‘ are same as last year ‘ I hope you’re not saying that with a straight face

 

[pjcrows]

I think you are misinterpreting re Nicks and my opinion there

But if you think our results ‘ are same as last year ‘ I hope you’re not saying that with a straight face

They literally are the same...

 

[Velvet George]

They’ve finally ruined you haven’t they

Who would have thought we’d sit in 4th spot with some good statistical indicators and you’ve spent 7 years waiting but still want to get mired in negativity

You do you though , look forward to some anger after a loss this week or some negativitiy after a win and consolidation in top 4

First off Jeff, where is this hissy fit after our win last week?

My involvement was you carrying on like a twat with Feenix and pointed out that his argument had some merit and explained why.

You carried on about us being the top scoring team, when we weren’t, whilst ignoring the first 3 rounds before we changed our game plan. Yiy brought up the weather, then ignored the weather when you boasted about our defence.

Port finished high in the minor round for a number of years and failed because of their dud coach.

We haven’t even made finals once under our coach, our coach continues to make poor decisions.

You might want to blow your load in May over our minor round position, I’ll keep pointing out the stupidity of our coach and hope one day we replace him with someone who won’t blow the list we’ve built. If I’m wrong, happy days, it means we are winning finals and ultimately a flag. What’s going to be your position when Nicks ultimately fails and is sacked?

As for what’s happened to you, I’m not sure.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

First off Jeff, where is this hissy fit after our win last week?

My involvement was you carrying on like a twat with Feenix and pointed out that his argument had some merit and explained why.

You carried on about us being the top scoring team, when we weren’t, whilst ignoring the first 3 rounds before we changed our game plan. Yiy brought up the weather, then ignored the weather when you boasted about our defence.

Port finished high in the minor round for a number of years and failed because of their dud coach.

We haven’t even made finals once under our coach, our coach continues to make poor decisions.

You might want to blow your load in May over our minor round position, I’ll keep pointing out the stupidity of our coach and hope one day we replace him with someone who won’t blow the list we’ve built. If I’m wrong, happy days, it means we are winning finals and ultimately a flag. What’s going to be your position when Nicks ultimately fails and is sacked?

As for what’s happened to you, I’m not sure.

I’ll enjoy when nicks gets sacked as I don’t rate him

But I’ll also enjoy if we are able to get some wins and win finals despite him

 

[CrowBloke]

In reverse order:

... please let us know what you think about us having the least scores against over last 6 rounds

I think it means the defence has tightened up which is a good thing, after the high scores against of the first 5 rounds.
Murray back from injury has helped.
Butts playing well, better than Borlase did anyway, has also been good.
Worrell has gone to a new level.

Please give a response to fact we are rated the number one ball movement side in comp across 11 rounds in both defensive and offensive ends

To be honest, I think that rating and our Ladder position after 11 Rounds flatters us. Of the current Top 8, we're ranked last as a chance to go top in 2025 (with GCS, both at $13

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ladder).

We have still only beaten teams that are presently 8th or lower. Losing to Freo was a nightmare.
A better indication will be where we are after the next 3 games.

What counts most is being the higher-scoring Team on the last game in September.
Do you think Nicks (still our losing-est ever Coach) is going to take us to that result in 2025, or even 2026?
I do not.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

In reverse order:

I think it means the defence has tightened up which is a good thing, after the high scores against of the first 5 rounds.
Murray back from injury has helped.
Butts playing well, better than Borlase did anyway, has also been good.
Worrell has gone to a new level.


To be honest, I think that rating and our Ladder position after 11 Rounds flatters us. Of the current Top 8, we're ranked last as a chance to go top in 2025 (with GCS, both at $13

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ladder).

We have still only beaten teams that are presently 8th or lower. Losing to Freo was a nightmare.
A better indication will be where we are after the next 3 games.

What counts most is being the higher-scoring Team on the last game in September.
Do you think Nicks (still our losing-est ever Coach) is going to take us to that result in 2025, or even 2026?
I do not.

Fair response

 

[CrowBloke]

I’ll enjoy when nicks gets sacked as I don’t rate him

But I’ll also enjoy if we are able to get some wins and win finals despite him

Apologies, I posted then saw the above, which answers my question, really.

Gotta say, getting "some wins and win Finals" is not enough for me.
We've done that over the last 27 years and I'm tired of it.