Prediction R8: Changes vs Saints

[Monument Hills]

wasn't the general consensus a year or two ago that the trajectory of the Saints would have them about top 4 by now? I haven't seen any of their games but what the hell happened. Do they need Scott Waters back coaching to make them a proud club again?

 

[PurpleWizard]

We have tried Fyfe forward heaps of times it never works. Fyfe is a great mark floating into packs from the side but isn't the best lead up mark and can't wrestle with the majority of full backs.

Fyfe will also be outnumbered and will get heaps of attention especially if we don't have Tabs down there.

Lets keep the best clearance player in the game on the ball and let him contest marks on the wing and drift forward and take marks/kick goals.

 

[ydraw]

Out: Ballantyne
In: Strnadica

 

[Moo]

Out: Ballantyne
In: Strnadica

Like for like?

 

[salim malik]

To me the most shocking thing is we're not experimenting with it.

Throw Fyfe forward against the Saints and give him pre-determined bursts onto the ball.

If it flops or it's easily countered ...great - tick and go back to small stints forward. However if he kicks 6 and/or suddenly our smalls are getting off the leash or Cam is finding space to lead into to because Fyfe is drawing a crowd - well then you can build on it.

This season isn't just about getting games into kids, it's also about refining roles.

Thats the deal , with Fyfe forward gives Cam the room he needs. Fyfe will draw the best 2 defenders.

 

[Rion]

Fyfe forward is just a stupid, stupid move. He’s currently the best mid in the comp, why in the world would you sacrifice that for an above average forward.

 

[Joao]

This is all true but at the minute as good as Fyfe is in the midfield in means bugger all if we can't win the big games. We need to knock of the Richmonds of the comp. A half forward line of Bennell, Fyfe and Walters is what wet dreams are made of. I've been waiting for 2 long years to see that line up.

I know it is nice to think it is the case but I really don't see how Fyfe forward allows us to win the big games. If you ever watch footage of him stationed forward for longer periods he gets a proper defender and itsn't half as effective. It is true that when forward he drags defenders away from Cam but then we foolishly kick it to him 2v1. Whilst this is somewhat valuable as he is able to bring the ball to ground better than most/all our other players IMO, it doesn't remotely make up for him not being in the middle.

Midfields win premierships and he is a damn fine midfielder. Win the ball and lower our eyes going inside 50 and we don't need Fyfe or some hulking forward to take huge contested grabs to score. We can hit blokes in space or on the lead. It is exactly what we have been doing when playing well this year. I am looking forward to us continuing to build on it. Once the younger guys get the experience and used to the pace of the game they will be able to absorb the pressure and still lower their eyes against the good teams. Then we could have 6 x Ballas in there and still kick a score.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Cam needs to spend a year in the gym.

He's just too weak and gets pushed out of position too easy. We need him winning some 50/50 marking contests.

 

[Righteo]

Our midfield is ordinary even with Fyfe in there, taking him out atm would be disastrous

 

[salim malik]

I know it is nice to think it is the case but I really don't see how Fyfe forward allows us to win the big games. If you ever watch footage of him stationed forward for longer periods he gets a proper defender and itsn't half as effective. It is true that when forward he drags defenders away from Cam but then we foolishly kick it to him 2v1. Whilst this is somewhat valuable as he is able to bring the ball to ground better than most/all our other players IMO, it doesn't remotely make up for him not being in the middle.

Midfields win premierships and he is a damn fine midfielder. Win the ball and lower our eyes going inside 50 and we don't need Fyfe or some hulking forward to take huge contested grabs to score. We can hit blokes in space or on the lead. It is exactly what we have been doing when playing well this year. I am looking forward to us continuing to build on it. Once the younger guys get the experience and used to the pace of the game they will be able to absorb the pressure and still lower their eyes against the good teams. Then we could have 6 x Ballas in there and still kick a score.

WC got to GF with second rate mids but a class CHF. WC are top 2 with an average midfield but a class defence and forward half. We are building a class defence, our midfield even without Fyfe is coming along nicely. The achilles heal is the forward half and we have potentially the best CHF in the comp. Whats wrong with putting our ace in attack and see what happens. Fyfe in the midfield has not got us a cup but he could forward.

 

[blue shark]

Our midfield is ordinary even with Fyfe in there, taking him out atm would be disastrous

How can this be? We have spent years at the draft taking mids, its not like we don't have options, we just choose to
play them on a flank.
We have a very predicable style, when was the last time Neale went forward? Instead now it is Fyfe or Mundy?
Players that can play midfield Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Brayshaw, Cerra, Banfield, Blakely, Hill, Tucker, Langdon, and others.
Its not the list that looks ordinary.

 

[Freo Dr]

Cam needs to spend a year in the gym.

He's just too weak and gets pushed out of position too easy. We need him winning some 50/50 marking contests.

Don't think that will ever be his thing though and you risk sacrificing his agility for it. Better to have one or two decent real talls deeper like Tabs was doing and Cam McCarthy plays further up the ground marks on a lead and then can deliver inside 50. He is a beautiful field kick and ideal 2nd or 3 tall - never be a primary target in pack marks. I agree maybe he could learn to do better body work with David Hale teaching him as needed but I wouldn't get him bulking up.

We just need one or two of Tabs/Dixon/Apeness/Cox or maybe Logue to be there instead. Fact is our structure was hurt when Tabs went down and hurt further with Walters out.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Cam needs to spend a year in the gym.

He's just too weak and gets pushed out of position too easy. We need him winning some 50/50 marking contests.

People do also forget he's only just 23, is a KPP sized player, and had basically a year and a bit off football. He's not going to be Pav and he's not going to be Hogan but it isn't like this is all he can or will be.

How can this be? We have spent years at the draft taking mids, its not like we don't have options, we just choose to
play them on a flank.
We have a very predicable style, when was the last time Neale went forward? Instead now it is Fyfe or Mundy?
Players that can play midfield Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Brayshaw, Cerra, Banfield, Blakely, Hill, Tucker, Langdon, and others.
Its not the list that looks ordinary.

Yeah but the experience isn't there.

Apart from Fyfe and Neale then the guys who can play that inside/outside role have very few games under the belt. Even Blakely has only played 40 games.

When you add in that Mundy is slowing, S Hill is carrying something/ded, and B Hill+Walters are out it is a bit of a perfect shitstorm.

 

[blue shark]

Don't think that will ever be his thing though and you risk sacrificing his agility for it. Better to have one or two decent real talls deeper like Tabs was doing and Cam McCarthy plays further up the ground marks on a lead and then can deliver inside 50. He is a beautiful field kick and ideal 2nd or 3 tall - never be a primary target in pack marks. I agree maybe he could learn to do better body work with David Hale teaching him as needed but I wouldn't get him bulking up.

We just need one or two of Tabs/Dixon/Apeness/Cox or maybe Logue to be there instead. Fact is our structure was hurt when Tabs went down and hurt further with Walters out.

Can doesn't read the flight of the ball well, its why you need quality mids to put it in front of him, his ground work skills
are good though.

 

[Joao]

WC got to GF with second rate mids but a class CHF. WC are top 2 with an average midfield but a class defence and forward half. We are building a class defence, our midfield even without Fyfe is coming along nicely. The achilles heal is the forward half and we have potentially the best CHF in the comp. Whats wrong with putting our ace in attack and see what happens. Fyfe in the midfield has not got us a cup but he could forward.

I see your reasoning but the reason I don't want to do it is because I don't rate Fyfe as high as you do at CHF.

 

[BStaff17]

Playing fyfe more forward has been discussed for 5 years now since we lost the grand final.

Every off season it is said fyfe will spend more time forward and that plan goes out the window by round 3 generally. So i dont think it will happen.

Is his set shot kicking the concern

He has improved his set shot kicking this year outside the derby. Though i think sometimes that is overstated due to the fact he so good at everything else ane can't do no wrong or misses anything. That when he does it miss its perceived as a weakness

 

[Paracleet]

Actually Fyfe's set shot record is pretty good. He runs at a 58% conversion rate for all shots: Average for forward. For a midfielder who has a higher percentage of snaps its actually pretty good (for example Mundy is 54%).
People just seem to remember him three GF misses and then when he occasional shanks one they get jump straight back to that: "Oh yeah Fyfie is a sh*t set shot". IMO he is one of our more reliable set shots.

As for him playing forward yeah nah. Best midfielder in the comp versus an *maybe* an above average forward?

 

[Joao]

Actually Fyfe's set shot record is pretty good. He runs at a 58% conversion rate for all shots: Average for forward. For a midfielder who has a higher percentage of snaps its actually pretty good (for example Mundy is 54%).
People just seem to remember him three GF misses and then when he occasional shanks one they get jump straight back to that: "Oh yeah Fyfie is a sh*t set shot". IMO he is one of our more reliable set shots.

As for him playing forward yeah nah. Best midfielder in the comp versus an *maybe* an above average forward?

His field kicking is not ideal for a CHF. The best in that position are excellent i50 kicks. Fyfe is not one of those.

Goal kicking is probably ok.

 

[Tbonefreo]

If we win we will have an outpouring of vitriol from a certain flog on the Saints board about how we are a club that harbours sexual predators..blah, blah, blah.. that’s when you know the win has really hurt.

Montagna and Milnes wild night springs to mind

 

[mattis117]

Like for like?

I think that's the point. Get some extra height up forward.

 

[sherrif]

We have tried Fyfe forward heaps of times it never works. Fyfe is a great mark floating into packs from the side but isn't the best lead up mark and can't wrestle with the majority of full backs.

Fyfe will also be outnumbered and will get heaps of attention especially if we don't have Tabs down there.

Lets keep the best clearance player in the game on the ball and let him contest marks on the wing and drift forward and take marks/kick goals.

Actually Fyfe's record when playing deep forward is outstanding in recent years, it is just he starts as a deep forward for such a small percentage of games. His stats show he is every bit as good forward compared to midfield in terms of output in his brief periods playing there. Coming into this year he was winning the highest percentage of one on one contests of any player in the entire afl in terms of contests in the forward fifty. The problem is obviously getting the ball down to him enough and also our ability to isolate him in one on one matchups. It is rubbish that he can not match it with fullbacks either. Destroyed plenty in recent times it is just we havent been able to play him there enough. Fyfe's also way quicker on the lead than most here would give him credit. He is exceptionally quick and some of the recently published GPS results prove this. The obvious problem is that we need two Nat's, but to say he wouldnt be outstanding in a key forward role is rubbish as there is plenty of evidence that he would be fantastic.

Im not sure how people can watch the Richmond game where we dominated the clearances yet got smashed because the Tigers defence played unaccountable to Freo forwards and not think that even if Fyfe simply played forward to draw the spare man it would at least improve our chances of scoring more. Hate the idea of not changing it up and at least seeing how Fyfe forward more goes in the next few weeks. Right now it is a certainty we will continue to struggle to score if we keep the same tactics.

My personal view is that we need to take some more risks if we want to save our season in the upcoming rounds. Time to play a six man forward line to man up the spare and time to play Fyfe forward for more than 30% of game time. Im sick of not taking risks in the coaching box. The Richmond game showed how we would benefit if Cerra played more midfield and Fyfe playing forward more would create more midfield time for the first year Docker as well.

While Im here Id love to know how all the pregame comments how it would be idiotic to at least try Alex Pearce as a forward in the Richmond game make sense. He ended up spendin most of the game matching up on mid sized Richmond forwards and had his least effective game of the year with no natural match-up. Really no idea what that achieved. It is getting to the point we would be idiotic not to try something different.

I think Nyhuis will be in the team this week Probably for S.Hill. In my view it is the perfect time to mix it up play Nyhuis forward as the sixth forward and change from the 7 man defence we had with S.hill playing back to a six man defence.

 

[ydraw]

Like for like?

Obviously not, I think we need to go taller.

 

[stax on the mull]

Be an achievement just to get the 4 points this week.

I would have banked before the season began that if we were going into any game missing Walters, B Hill and S Hill (who seems doubtful) against any opposition we'd be likely to lose.

 

[wild side]

Be an achievement just to get the 4 points this week.

I would have banked before the season began that if we were going into any game missing Walters, B Hill and S Hill (who seems doubtful) against any opposition we'd be likely to lose.

Nah, we should beat the saints

 

[Dockernut]

I’m obliged to ask on behalf of my buddy, but does anyone actually think Strnadica is a chance to debut this weekend?