Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[Snake_Baker]

This has been doing the rounds for decades. Pops up every ten years or so, but as Mr Coon was the cheesemakers name, nothing will come of it.

.........and why should it?! Because a mere hand full of idiots with a catastrophically oversized platform think it's a good idea?

You have to be a racist to think that's offensive in the first place.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I remember it at school in the 90’s.

Seriously, who looks at cheese then automatically correlates it with denigrating black folks and fermenting the idea to do so?

Seriously? Would the word "coon" automatically disappear from the racist lexicon?

A disservice has already been done to the word "******" by trying to ban it.

 

[Royal Flush]

I think it is more that critical thinking isn't promoted in higher education as much as it used to be. I try not to get too emo about people who respond badly to my posts, I think their heart is in the right place but I've run into a few on this thread who see the evidence I presented in terms of data and just flat out refused to accept it. It reminds me of the memes during SpaceX recent launch to put astronauts on the space station making fun at Flat Earthers where they show the curvature of the planet as it reaches higher orbit. The "feeling" is that the government run NASA created fake evidence, but now a corporation flying to the international space station is showing the Earth isn't flat. Flat Earthers still exist, still do not accept the evidence.

It is no different to religion or even having unrealistic faith in your football club's youth. We are all victims of bias, I am a bit Flat Earthy when it came to Kieran Harper, but hell, he can win awards for playing in the Amateur grade, so I have a healthy scepticism of his "road accident" ankle problems.

The danger is when you get caught in a bubble that bounce around bad ideas and nobody questions them, when peer review deteriorates into group think. The humanities is at the forefront of the problem and it has been bleeding into other areas, those who have been speaking against the culture war or culture crisis have had an uphill battle in highlighting the flaws of coming up with a conclusion then building your doctrine around supporting that conclusion.

There is a really good conversation here between Matthew Thornton and Ali Rizvi here https://letter.wiki/conversation/766

It goes to show data isn't everything, a lot depends on how you choose to analyse it and I think it is important to be open to question what it is you believe and how you interpret the data. I think Ali is on point particularly with this quote:



I think there is a vastly different attitude here in Australia, it is almost impossible to get police officers indicted in the USA so if the attorney general doesn't want to prosecute, because it can be a career killer if it goes bad, the general public are reluctant to as well even in some horrific cases of police brutality.

I do believe that racial bias exists, both here and the USA, moreso in the USA and Ali articulates it much better than I could late in his response. It is like the stores that put products in their shop behind lock and key which are more likely to get stolen, or hurt them a lot more when they are stolen, in the USA a lot of products that are used more often by black people and are stolen a lot more than other products are put behind locked displays, this racially profiles, and it is out of necessity (to reduce thefts). Police will often profile to gravitate towards concentrations of crime and that does expose people to greater police presence, and more interaction with police.

However profiling isn't always based on logic. Here in Victoria we had Africans between 2006-2009 stopped by police 2.5 times more than white people even though they had lower crime rates, and the chief of police instigated Operation Molto in 2006 that targeted African youths. There are both explicit and implicit bias. I know it was the catalyst for significant change here, I am not sure how effective that change has been. I think it is important that we have healthy relationships with all the cultures. Melbourne is a very diverse city but we have seen how crazy people could get when it came to the "African youth gangs". I think always that open and honest discussion is the only way forward when there is a real intent to unify and bring the community together.

you got lots of good points there mate.
The Problem is (USA), they have too many guns in too many hands. That's a big full stop there. You can understand Police there being quick to respond. They are literally protecting their own lives on a daily basis. And im pretty sure they view their own lives matter more then potential felons (black/brown/yellow and white), if it becomes a choice. Thats a pretty simple conclusion to make. Its not a racist. There will always be bad cops and corrupt cops. Yes they should be punished hard for it.

There are barely any parallels to the daily risk a US cop has compared to an Australian Cop., and i find it difficult to understand how we can draw conclusions and march out on the streets during an epidemic to suggest there is.

Humanities and its pathetic influence on Cancel culture, Victim culture ect,
Explained below;
Grievance studies

 

[Val Keating]

Seriously, who looks at cheese then automatically correlates it with denigrating black folks and fermenting the idea to do so?

Seriously? Would the word "coon" automatically disappear from the racist lexicon?

A disservice has already been done to the word "fellow" by trying to ban it.

I only vaguely remember it because it was part of a bigger story. People wanted a bay in NSW renamed and they interviewed a bunch of activists. One of the activists looks into the camera and started saying “I’ll never eat coon cheese” we were kids so it became a bit of a joke whenever someone had a cheese sandwich.

Why did they try to ban “fellow”?

 

[Royal Flush]

Then set yourself up with a cushy job...........at the taxpayers expense............naturally.

Or go into academia, and start inventing post modern fairy tales.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I only vaguely remember it because it was part of a bigger story. People wanted a bay in NSW renamed and they interviewed a bunch of activists. One of the activists looks into the camera and started saying “I’ll never eat coon cheese” we were kids so it became a bit of a joke whenever someone had a cheese sandwich.

Why did they try to ban “fellow”?

The word "******" refers to me to mean someone who has been treated horrendously by a power structure.

That abuse continues today regardless of the existence of the word, and not just against black folks.

 

[Royal Flush]

A lot of issues would be solved by:
- More bodycams and reviewed by independent vendors without police involvement in the process of uploading.
- Fewer guns (Duh).
- Some widespread reforms to a prison system that doesn't pump out thousands of gang members and Neo-Nazi's.
- More money for better training and attracting smarter cops.
- Better monitoring for cops affecting by PTSD and other mental issues (as this can devolve in violent episodes).
- Better inner-city economic policies focused on economic mobilisation, rather than just welfare (which should only be a healthy safety net for those that cannot generally find work or who cannot work).
- Stringent accountability in regards to racial profiling and reporting policies (independent reviewers?).
- Policing in pairs.
- Better statistical gathering for crime and to stay on top of policies. Census data is too damn unreliable.
- Non-lethal technology development.
- Court reforms aimed at developing a wider consistency in decision-making and sentencing.
- I am sure there are others, but there are just some suggestions.

Always need for positive reform and continuing improvement of service. no doubt about that. Positions of power need external auditing. agreed.
But two problems arise;
1>GUNS
2> 52 independent state controlled police forces and Federal Law enforcement agencies.

I think US society will be forever ****ed, until they do something about their gun laws.

We got nothing to cry about here, we have a diversity quota filled police force that resembles nothing what the Dennis Lillee looking mob was like in 80's and 90s.

 

[Royal Flush]

The word "fellow" refers to me to mean someone who has been treated horrendously by a power structure.

That abuse continues today regardless of the existence of the word, and not just against black folks.

You're a Good Fella

 

[Snake_Baker]

Always need for positive reform and continuing improvement of service. no doubt about that. Positions of power need external auditing. agreed.
But two problems arise;
1>GUNS
2> 52 independent state controlled police forces and Federal Law enforcement agencies.

I think US society will be forever f’ed, until they do something about their gun laws.

We got nothing to cry about here, we have a diversity quota filled police force that resembles nothing what the Dennis Lillee looking mob was like in 80's and 90s.

IMO, cops should have a cap life for dealing with the public of 10 years. 10 years, then on to a desk, or go somewhere else.

Many in aged care utilise this concept.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

IMO, cops should have a cap life for dealing with the public of 10 years. 10 years, then on to a desk, or go somewhere else.

Many in aged care utilise this concept.

A lot of burnouts, drug/alcohol abuse and suicides. The rates are even worse for ex-ADF.

 

[Royal Flush]

IMO, cops should have a cap life for dealing with the public of 10 years. 10 years, then on to a desk, or go somewhere else.

Many in aged care utilise this concept.

Its a tough gig working in any crisis environment. Human capacity to handle it long term is challenging.

 

[GarnerSmash]

It genuinely concerns me that there is a proportion of the population that would rather support the de-funding of the police force right now than address any of the following:

A proper and humane social security net
Improved access to proper and affordable health care
Removal of the industrialisation of incarceration
Decriminalisation of drugs
Rebuilding of manufacturing base

All the above would provide far more benefit in reducing racial inequality in the US than anything currently being protested against. Can't hashtag that shit though.

I understand that black communities have had the lid blown off, have had enough, but railing against the cops ain't gonna fix the fact that their mean net worth is 10 times less than the average white person. It ain't gonna fix the fact that African Americans are 6 times more likely to be victims of murders, with 95% of those murders committed by other African-Americans. Black Lives Matter and all other groups who support equality for all should be pushing their political parties for the above mentioned improvements in their society's structure, as well as better training and pay for police, not less to none.

 

[rickety]

Mobile phones and technology can gagf

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Mobile phones and technology can gagf

I always knew that you were secretly a Luddite.

 

[rickety]

I always knew that you were secretly a Luddite.

Lol, so secret I didn't know it myself. After consulting the google machine, I reckon I may just have a few Luddite tendencies I don't mind the Levellers either

 

[see see]

IMO, cops should have a cap life for dealing with the public of 10 years. 10 years, then on to a desk, or go somewhere else.

Many in aged care utilise this concept.

May not work for everyone

 

[Snake_Baker]

It genuinely concerns me that there is a proportion of the population that would rather support the de-funding of the police force right now .....

The majority of people calling for this will be the first one's on the phones looking for one when they aren't around.

 

[Val Keating]

The majority of people calling for this will be the first one's on the phones looking for one when they aren't around.

I just learned about the weather underground movement in the late 60’s...some of these protestors remind me of a softer version of them...and that’s saying something.

 

[Val Keating]

Looks Chris DeLia is being cancelled right now.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Looks Chris DeLia is being cancelled right now.

Is Domino’s cancelled yet?

 

[Val Keating]

Is Domino’s cancelled yet?

Pizza gate?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Pizza gate?

No, it was the Domino’s twitter account thanking Kayleigh McEnany for positive comments about their pizza’s several years ago.

 

[Val Keating]

No, it was the Domino’s twitter account thanking Kayleigh McEnany for positive comments about their pizza’s several years ago.

I missed that one. The Internet is like the Wild West at the moment. It’s good if he is a pedo but it’s hard to know if the social media accounts are genuine

 

[Tas]

It's culturally entrenched Tas. There's plenty of data and studies available via Google if that's the kind of thing that you're looking for. But the fact is, white masculine energy holds the power in many parts of the world.

I agree that white people have power in Europe, UK, Australia, America and Canada. Roughly speaking the entire world is 54% Asian, 15% Black, 15% White, 8% Hispanic and 8% Middle-Eastern. There is probably far greater representation of minorities in "Western Countries" than there are minorities in any other nation type so I do not think white people are as evil or oppressive as people would like to believe.

That is not to excuse the bad things that do happen, we do have problems though and I think they need to be addressed.

We still have the vast bulk of decision-making for Black and Indigenous peoples being made by white people.

I agree. Here in Victoria we have created the First Peoples' Assembly of Victoria creating the precursor for a treaty with the indigenous people of Victoria that will enable true self-determination for Aboriginal people. It is still a work in progress but hopefully it is a step in the right direction.

We still have Black and Indigenous kids being taught a white version of their own history by white teachers.

Education is a critical process in improving the lot of any individual or group. We have the Victorian Aboriginal Education Association Inc (VAEAI) that has created a significant amount of educational material, programs and curriculum not just for Aboriginal students but for Victorian students in general because it is important that Australians learn about their own country, their own people. It is all put together by indigenous people, an example of what they put out if you are interested. http://www.vaeai.org.au/wp-content/...urriculum-Bulletin-November-December-2019.pdf

As you will see even if you just glance through it, there has been a significant amount of work put into creating the material.

We recently experienced pockets of outrage because protesters tore down a bunch of statues of old white guys from the white version of history. People were up in arms about their "history" disappearing, being lost forever. Statues are monuments of heroization, and there was nothing heroic about those old white captains of colonialism. Keep your statues white folks, sure. Put them in a museum, and then tell the history. But tell the whole history, not just the white version. No more one-sided stories. Those one-sided stories make up the culture that both enables, and is as a result blind to, systemic racism.

I don't really care too much for statues, people can tear down every single statue for what it matters to me. All the statue tearing down, all the book burning, it doesn't change the past nor the history and you can't judge the past by modern day standards, you can't erase the past and it provides valuable lessons despite how painful some of them are.

I did want to ask you about one thing you mentioned in one of your replies though, where you wrote:

"Most of our police forces have both Aboriginal Community Liaison Officers and Police Aboriginal Liaison Officers that are used to build solid foundations between the police and the communities."

Just out of curiosity, are those officers actually Aboriginal, or are they white, and that wording is just their title? It's an honest question, I'm not having a go at you. If they are actually Aboriginal, then I think that's great. I have a very close friend whose brother was First Nations, and an addict. Whenever he ran into serious trouble with respect to his addiction, he never wanted to speak to a white social worker. He always asked if there was anyone Indigenous who could help him. Of course, he very rarely got that, but it was important to him.

The Police Aboriginal Liaison Officers that I know of are Aboriginal, not sure if there are non-indigenous officers. They often accompany regular police when it comes to matters with the indigenous and I know they exist outside of Victoria as well. A lot of their work includes counselling and prevention programmes, they try and get elders or respected people within the community involved as officers.

Anyways Tas, it doesn't really matter who of us believes what when it comes to systemic racism. Like I said, the time for discussing whether or not the problem exists is over. Change is coming. Things can't stay the same, and they won't.

Not all change is positive. I am sure if far right extremists come into power as a result of increasing chaos then I doubt anyone would say it was change for the better.

 

[Royal Flush]

CANCEL CULTURE;
Colonial Beer
Coon Cheese
Kellogs Coco Pops YOU'RE NEXT

Breakfast cereal under fire over 'racist' branding

It's an Australian staple but, after generations on supermarket shelves, Kellogg's has been forced to respond to scrutiny.

7news.com.au