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Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

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ferball said:
I dunno if you noticed but you were trying to justify something that's been called a murder.

He wasn't shot while fighting police, he was shot while running away. So he was obviously shot because he resisted arrest and fought the cops, but not in self defence, more as an extra judiciary punishment. Payback for fighting or resisting arrest.

It seems as if you are actively looking for reasons to ignore or minimise this.

Given the context of this discussion it's easy to see how little that black life matters if an obviously criminal act ie ending it unlawfully, is not being recognised as a crime.
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OK mate, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, which is fine. Just on your first point though, I’ve made it abundantly clear that I do not support the cop shooting the guy, I could not have been more explicit about it. We can have different views on what caused it, whether it was racially driven, etc, but please don’t say that I’m justifying it, because it is 100% not true, the cop is in the wrong here.
 
Mr_Nyah said:
OK mate, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, which is fine. Just on your first point though, I’ve made it abundantly clear that I do not support the cop shooting the guy, I could not have been more explicit about it. We can have different views on what caused it, whether it was racially driven, etc, but please don’t say that I’m justifying it, because it is 100% not true, the cop is in the wrong here.
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The difference is that he makes it about black people, and not all people.

The victimization spotlight is not allowed to be shared, based upon racial grounds.......and they have a word for that.
 
Tas said:
I agree that white people have power in Europe, UK, Australia, America and Canada. Roughly speaking the entire world is 54% Asian, 15% Black, 15% White, 8% Hispanic and 8% Middle-Eastern. There is probably far greater representation of minorities in "Western Countries" than there are minorities in any other nation type so I do not think white people are as evil or oppressive as people would like to believe.

That is not to excuse the bad things that do happen, we do have problems though and I think they need to be addressed.



I agree. Here in Victoria we have created the First Peoples' Assembly of Victoria creating the precursor for a treaty with the indigenous people of Victoria that will enable true self-determination for Aboriginal people. It is still a work in progress but hopefully it is a step in the right direction.




Education is a critical process in improving the lot of any individual or group. We have the Victorian Aboriginal Education Association Inc (VAEAI) that has created a significant amount of educational material, programs and curriculum not just for Aboriginal students but for Victorian students in general because it is important that Australians learn about their own country, their own people. It is all put together by indigenous people, an example of what they put out if you are interested. http://www.vaeai.org.au/wp-content/...urriculum-Bulletin-November-December-2019.pdf

As you will see even if you just glance through it, there has been a significant amount of work put into creating the material.



I don't really care too much for statues, people can tear down every single statue for what it matters to me. All the statue tearing down, all the book burning, it doesn't change the past nor the history and you can't judge the past by modern day standards, you can't erase the past and it provides valuable lessons despite how painful some of them are.



The Police Aboriginal Liaison Officers that I know of are Aboriginal, not sure if there are non-indigenous officers. They often accompany regular police when it comes to matters with the indigenous and I know they exist outside of Victoria as well. A lot of their work includes counselling and prevention programmes, they try and get elders or respected people within the community involved as officers.



Not all change is positive. I am sure if far right extremists come into power as a result of increasing chaos then I doubt anyone would say it was change for the better.
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Thanks for clarifying about the Liason Officers being Aboriginal Tas, again, that's encouraging to hear. Some of the stuff that Blacks and Indigenous are asking for is just so basic. Like Black people being consulted to solve Black problems, Indigenous people being consulted to solve Indigenous problems. Not a white system that just tells them how it's going to be, or goes through the motions of pretending to listen, and then tells them how it's going to be.

And nah, right wing extremists won't come into power from this chaos. Nothing remains stable that is heavily unbalanced. It's why we're seeing such upheaval now. Covid combined with Trump in the US have created the perfect storm for the tipping point that's seeing so much upturned and examined, revalued, re-thought, discarded, or reworked. The US isn't the only country going through this right now either, as we all know. It's worldwide. Just to varying degrees in different places. But change is definitely coming. There will be more equality in all things, and more balance for our planet, in our lifetime.
 
Sopwiths North said:
Many good points Mr. Nyah. I'm not a big fan of statistics, personally. They do have a place, but I don't feel they are the be all end all, or in any way the definitive authority on something. They also can lend to dehumanising an issue, which at times can be detrimental to actually taking action and finding a solution.
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Agreed. I think it's fair to say that in this particular instance, anecdotal evidence is key in truly understanding the issue.

One of the biggest problems with 'stats' is that they don't give us a great read on the low-level subjugation, both physical and psychological, that happens on a daily basis but doesn't necessarily escalate into a recorded 'incident', or end up on a rap sheet, or in a hospital ward, or the morgue. And I'm talking about both from the police and the wider community here. To use one of the many available examples - does the amount of times Black customers are followed around a shop by store security show up on a stat sheet? Some folks keep saying that this profiling is purely related to socio-economic factors, but how many times have we heard stories of innocent, relatively affluent Black youth also being targeted by over-zealous cops merely for committing such heinous crimes as congregating with their friends in a public place? The roadstops that lead nowhere but may very well involve profiling? Or the shakedowns for shakedown sake? The constant harassment and suspicion? I'm not saying these things don't happen to White folks, but are the numbers skewed? What do the stats really tell us about these things? As you say, they certainly don't paint a complete picture.

On a related note, I'm not sure why some people are so keen to delineate between systemic prejudice against African Americans and systemic prejudice against those in the lower socio-economic bracket. And not just because the two so often intersect. I'd suggest that the police are more than capable of wearing both hats in that respect.

Regardless, the notion that it's very difficult for, say, a white, middle-class dude in Melbourne, Australia to truly understand the experience of your average Black person living in the N Broadway neighbourhood in Baltimore (or in Saginaw, or West Memphis, or Camden, NJ, or East St Louis, or....), is by no means a new or complicated concept, and is one still widely subscribed to among Black academics and historians, as well as a large proportion of the population. With good reason. As Mr Nyah put it, 'the insight of lived experience'. And this is a situation that clearly lends itself towards affording that insight and lived experience a huge amount of weight.

Which is why it is so important that we listen to the voices of Black communities regarding issues concerning Black communities. Sounds so simple I know, yet here we are.
 

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Genuine philosophical question - addressed to all in Sunbury - on this issue of 'a few bad apples'.....

Could it not be argued that the so-called good cops who stand by and do nothing while bad cops do shitty stuff, are also by definition bad cops themselves?

You know, tacit consent and all that.

(Or do you believe it's simply a case of the system failing these good cops? Are you of the opinion that the good cops do in fact attempt to bring these 'bad apples' to justice but for various reasons, their voices are repeatedly sidelined and/or marginalised?)
 
rickety said:
Lol, so secret I didn't know it myself. After consulting the google machine, I reckon I may just have a few Luddite tendencies 🙃 I don't mind the Levellers either :cool:
Click to expand...

Highly decent band, rickety. :thumbsu:

Kind of like an over-caffeinated Waterboys. 'Levelling The Land' album in particular is killer.

(Plus bonus points for being snowflake leftie types.)

 
The Other Dean said:
Highly decent band, rickety. :thumbsu:

Kind of like an over-caffeinated Waterboys. 'Levelling The Land' album in particular is killer.

(Plus bonus points for being snowflake leftie types.)

Click to expand...

Got into them circa 1993 after seeing a band at The Mean Fiddler in north London. Might have been them, it was a long time ago, and of course, I was very very drunk 🙃
 
The Other Dean said:
Genuine philosophical question - addressed to all in Sunbury - on this issue of 'a few bad apples'.....

Could it not be argued that the so-called good cops who stand by and do nothing while bad cops do shitty stuff, are also by definition bad cops themselves?

You know, tacit consent and all that.

(Or do you believe it's simply a case of the system failing these good cops? Are you of the opinion that the good cops do in fact attempt to bring these 'bad apples' to justice but for various reasons, their voices are repeatedly sidelined and/or marginalised?)
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Does St.Albans count?

Loaded Question.

Yes to both your statements (questions).

IMO nobody opposes a Royal Commission type intervention and reform. Nobody is arguing against it. (ill speak for myself)

This BLM movement has transcended the pacific ocean like a bad fad, that dwindles away until the next movement goes viral. Yea go for your lives, yell away.
But dont do it during the single most extreme quarantine measures ever implemented, and gamble on further isolation and shut down of our economy.
All that risk for virtue signalling.
 
bengrina said:
Winx or Black Caviar?
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Black Cav but purely for sentimental reasons

Winx is the GOAT but Black Cav because I got on her early and won a fair bit of coin on her
 
Not sure about the veracity of the caption, but it’s not pretty.
 

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ferball said:
I know. And that obviously leads to the next question ...why not?

I reckon they don't care. They probably think they need to be seen to be the toughest gang on the street, especially now.

There is a file floating around with ... I dunno maybe over a thousand by now ... acts of police brutality since these riots started, I havent looked for a while cos it's too big so I dunno the exact number. All videoed and posted on Twitter. The file is just links in a google doc.

I've seen some, a random sample and it varies from minor violence to some brutal beatings. There are apparently video of shooting with rubber bullets at very close range but I didn't see them. I only looked at a few random links.

Different cops, different looking uniforms, so it's not localised. It seems the cops don't give a fu** and this is a fight they intend to win. I imagine the briefings are more "we can't back down or let them intimidate us" than "use your common sense and be calm".
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Mate, I can’t believe that is the situation, (not disagreeing, just pure shocked)
Maybe we are only getting one side of it but you would think, let’s get some positive messages out also to calm it down

I just more and more grateful we live here where only Vic cops shoot then ask questions :p
 
mobile.reuters.com

Trump administration proposes rolling back protections for big tech

The U.S. Justice Department proposed on Wednesday that Congress take up legislation to curb protections big tech platforms like Alphabet's Google and Facebook have had for decades, a senior official said, following through on President Donald Trump's bid to crack down on...
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department proposed on Wednesday that Congress take up legislation to curb protections big tech platforms like Alphabet's Google and Facebook have had for decades, a senior official said, following through on President Donald Trump's bid to crack down on tech giants.

The goal of the proposal, which is being finalized, is to push tech companies to address criminal content on their platforms such as child exploitation, terrorism or cyber stalking, and boost transparency for users when the outlets take down lawful material, the Justice Department official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Trump said he sought to "remove or change" Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act, which generally exempts platforms from responsibility for what their users post and allows them to moderate the content of their sites as they wish.


The Justice Department proposal would seek to push platforms to "address" illicit content online, such as material that violates federal criminal law, the department said. It would also seek to require the companies to be upfront about content moderation decisions and prevent the big online platforms from invoking Section 230 in antitrust cases.
 
Kangaroos4eva said:
Not sure about the veracity of the caption, but it’s not pretty.
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Didn't you know that white folks are to blame for this? White folks are the blame for all black violence.

For example, aboriginal domestic violence only exists because of racism.
 

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thewest.com.au

Ernie Dingo racially abused at Perth train station

WA’s best known Indigenous actor has been involved in a violent incident after being targeted by a racial slur.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au


Ernie Dingo targeted by racial slur at Perth train station
Kate Emery
The West Australian
Wednesday, 17 June 2020
WA actor Ernie Dingo
WA actor Ernie Dingo Credit: Michael Wilson/The West Australian

WA’s most celebrated Indigenous actor, Ernie Dingo, has been involved in a violent incident in Perth after being called a “f***ing Abo”.
At a time when the black lives matter movement has put racism in the spotlight, the shocking incident at Perth Central station saw Dingo apparently urge the man to “say it again, give me an excuse to whack you” as he confronted him.
According to a social media post by Ngaarda Media, Dingo was waiting for passengers to disembark when a white man in his mid-30s came alongside him and called him a “f***ing Abo”.

The Facebook post quoted Dingo as saying: “I chased him and scruffs him ‘Say it again’ he is scared now & I whack him on the right side of his head, he slips & falls trying to get away, his foot falls between the platform & the train, I drag his a**e away from the edge, as he is laying there I ask again ‘Say it again, give me an excuse to whack you’ he doesn’t”.
Told by two other men that the man may have an intellectual disability, Dingo said “‘if he is gunna say that s**t to me, I’ll have a go at him’. I’m 63, I don’t take that s**t from anyone.”
When Dingo eventually got on his train a woman asked him if he was OK and he told her the stranger “should’ve known better”.
“I might make the news tonight, I’m sure it was captured on CCTV,” he is quoted as saying. “If it does, you heard it from me first & I wouldn’t have minded if I caught the next train rather than not do anything about it and be angry on the train.”
A spokeswoman for Dingo said: “Ernie thanks you for your interest, however has no further comment to make.”
A WA Police spokesman said: “At this stage, WA Police Force have not received a complaint regarding this incident.”
Dingo, who grew up in Mullewa and later Geraldton in WA, has been declared a Living National Treasure and received a General Division of the Order of Australia. His film and television appearances include The Fringe Dwellers and Bran Nue Dae and he hosted The Great Outdoors TV show for more than a decade.
 
krakouers85 said:
thewest.com.au

Ernie Dingo racially abused at Perth train station

WA’s best known Indigenous actor has been involved in a violent incident after being targeted by a racial slur.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au


Ernie Dingo targeted by racial slur at Perth train station
Kate Emery
The West Australian
Wednesday, 17 June 2020
WA actor Ernie Dingo
WA actor Ernie Dingo Credit: Michael Wilson/The West Australian

WA’s most celebrated Indigenous actor, Ernie Dingo, has been involved in a violent incident in Perth after being called a “f***ing Abo”.
At a time when the black lives matter movement has put racism in the spotlight, the shocking incident at Perth Central station saw Dingo apparently urge the man to “say it again, give me an excuse to whack you” as he confronted him.
According to a social media post by Ngaarda Media, Dingo was waiting for passengers to disembark when a white man in his mid-30s came alongside him and called him a “f***ing Abo”.

The Facebook post quoted Dingo as saying: “I chased him and scruffs him ‘Say it again’ he is scared now & I whack him on the right side of his head, he slips & falls trying to get away, his foot falls between the platform & the train, I drag his a**e away from the edge, as he is laying there I ask again ‘Say it again, give me an excuse to whack you’ he doesn’t”.
Told by two other men that the man may have an intellectual disability, Dingo said “‘if he is gunna say that s**t to me, I’ll have a go at him’. I’m 63, I don’t take that s**t from anyone.”
When Dingo eventually got on his train a woman asked him if he was OK and he told her the stranger “should’ve known better”.
“I might make the news tonight, I’m sure it was captured on CCTV,” he is quoted as saying. “If it does, you heard it from me first & I wouldn’t have minded if I caught the next train rather than not do anything about it and be angry on the train.”
A spokeswoman for Dingo said: “Ernie thanks you for your interest, however has no further comment to make.”
A WA Police spokesman said: “At this stage, WA Police Force have not received a complaint regarding this incident.”
Dingo, who grew up in Mullewa and later Geraldton in WA, has been declared a Living National Treasure and received a General Division of the Order of Australia. His film and television appearances include The Fringe Dwellers and Bran Nue Dae and he hosted The Great Outdoors TV show for more than a decade.
Click to expand...

Isn't this the pain in the arse who has subjected us all to the "welcome to country" bullshit that we have to endure now?
 
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