Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[CharlieMortdecai]

I don't care about Jimmy Carr enough to do a google search about him.

Or most of these celebrities.

Speaking of google i must be getting old cos i'm getting sh*t at using it.

I've been trying to find stuff about the Hague Convention we talked about the other day. What led up to it mostly. But its hard to find stuff about the lead up to it.

Try this mate:

https://assets.hcch.net/docs/a5fb103c-2ceb-4d17-87e3-a7528a0d368c.pdf

If it doesn't work the download link is here:

HCCH | Explanatory Report on the 1980 HCCH Child Abduction Convention

HCCH Publications

www.hcch.net

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I'll see if I can find something a bit more readable that goes into the history that led up to the convention.

 

[Val Keating]

They wouldn't do the same material today, just as I doubt Jane Austen would include the gypsy scene in Pride and Prejudice, and Shakespeare would probably avoid the stereotypes in Merchant of Venice and Othello.

If they did literally the same routines, I doubt they would have the same success in this environment. But talent is talent, and they would make people laugh with different jokes.

Did Murphy apologise from some of his homophobic stuff at some point, or am I misremembering that?

All your comments on Gadsby, I'm still not sure what you actually watched, because again "witty lecturer" wasn't really the vibe I got in the two clips I watched, as there was nothing particularly educative about them. Was it the Nanette show that Makeshift Park mentioned above?

I’m pretty sure it was her latest one. Couldn’t get through it.

People are still doing comedy like Eddie & Richard today. People just complain when they do. Look at Bill Burr and Dave Chapelle. Shit even in Dave’s last special he went down a similar role as a story teller rather then joker. As you probably know he’s been at war with the LGBTQ2 community, so he told a story about a friend of his that killed her self because she was trans and the trans community turned on her when she found out she was friends with Dave.

To a degree I don’t get bothered by dark or offensive comedy, same as music, tv or movies. It just has to be good.

What I meant about my original Gadsby comment was that she’s very PC and if people keep trying to cancel comics for saying jokes that don’t fall into their world view it’s going to be pretty boring.

It’s a similar thing that happened back in the day when authorities tried to cancel certain music, comics etc except this time it’s coming from people on their phones using social media.

 

[Val Keating]

As soon as I posted that I thought I bet she’s done a bloody Ted talk

 

[Val Keating]

Its not just comedy is it.

Its also a documentary.




And more specifically, stand up comedy isn't really art is it?

Absolutely it’s art.

 

[ferball]

So what is art?

 

[Makeshift Park]

stand up comedy isn't really art is it?

Good stand up is, sure. Richard Prior at his best was more revelatory and confronting and imaginative than a lot of successful novels.

 

[Makeshift Park]

So what is art?

Its something beautiful expressed creatively.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I don't care about Jimmy Carr enough to do a google search about him.

Or most of these celebrities.

Speaking of google i must be getting old cos i'm getting sh*t at using it.

I've been trying to find stuff about the Hague Convention we talked about the other day. What led up to it mostly. But its hard to find stuff about the lead up to it.

Okay, this seems to be the best article I can find:
Herring, L. R. (1994). Taking Away the Pawns: International Parental Abduction & (and) the Hague Convention. North Carolina Journal of International Law and Commercial Regulation, 20(1), 137-174.

Sent you a PM

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I reckon Jimmy Carr is fantastic, one of the funniest comedians going round.

But I will admit to being a little confused by his recent obsession with finding the career-ending joke.

 

[big_e]

I reckon Jimmy Carr is fantastic, one of the funniest comedians going round.

But I will admit to being a little confused by his recent obsession with finding the career-ending joke.

More money on the podcast circuit these days....

 

[ferball]

I’m pretty sure it was her latest one. Couldn’t get through it.

People are still doing comedy like Eddie & Richard today. People just complain when they do. Look at Bill Burr and Dave Chapelle. sh*t even in Dave’s last special he went down a similar role as a story teller rather then joker. As you probably know he’s been at war with the LGBTQ2 community, so he told a story about a friend of his that killed her self because she was trans and the trans community turned on her when she found out she was friends with Dave.

To a degree I don’t get bothered by dark or offensive comedy, same as music, tv or movies. It just has to be good.

What I meant about my original Gadsby comment was that she’s very PC and if people keep trying to cancel comics for saying jokes that don’t fall into their world view it’s going to be pretty boring.

It’s a similar thing that happened back in the day when authorities tried to cancel certain music, comics etc except this time it’s coming from people on their phones using social media.

Back then it was jerks like AL gores missus and her fundy Christian political shithead lackeys.

But its a fine line. I'm not really a fan of racist abuse passing itself off as comedy. And the law tends to frown on reacting to that sort of thing in a reasonable and proportional manner.

But at the same time ...

Joe Rogan making stupid comments is one thing, he also debated Ben Shapiro (there is a 20 minute edit on youtube) and never concedes what Shapiro is saying about institutionalised racism and poor outcomes for black people not being a systemic problem in the united states,and he flatly refuses to accept that it isn't the ongoing legacy of racism EDIT - and slavery. He doesn't let Shapiro go off on a stupid rant at any time, he always brings it back to how ****ed up the situation is for poor black Americans and it isn't their fault. Shapiro never has anything of substance to respond to that. Everyone who tuned in to hear Shapiro and Rogan pay out wokeness got something else instead. (Although I've only seen bits of that show in that 20 min version so other stuff may have been said in the whole three hours.)

Rogan was patient and calm about it and if anyone went there with Shapiro's attitude but actually listened to Rogan then they would have come away with a different perspective. He didn't berate Shapiro either tho at times he seemed to be losing patience with him. SO even more importantly people who might have Shapiro's attitude were never in a situation where they would have put up shutters and doubled down in response to what they'd think of as woke bullshit. He just asked questions that Shapiro couldn't really answer without going into NPC mode and parroting stuff.

So his ledger is still in the ... er... black


so to speak.


Rogan is acknowledging the problem in a way someone like black Mayor of Washington Muriel Bowser didn't despite all the bullshit stunts. She painted "Black Lives Matter" in huge letter across a road, changed some street signs, made some noises about defunding the police and then budgeted 10 million more dollars for the cops!!! She's black, and a Democrat but Joe Rogan has more understanding of the situation than her.

Defund the police isn't really about no more cops either, despite the rhetoric. Its about putting the money that goes into the militarisation of police forces into social programs to address disadvantage and lower the crime rate by giving people options for a proper life.

Anyway I'm rambling...

Another thing that those old musos and rappers were into that Tipper Gore didn't like was anti authoritarianism.

 

[ferball]

Its something beautiful expressed creatively.

That's a great answer. i was just being a smartarse.

 

[ferball]

Okay, this seems to be the best article I can find:
Herring, L. R. (1994). Taking Away the Pawns: International Parental Abduction & (and) the Hague Convention. North Carolina Journal of International Law and Commercial Regulation, 20(1), 137-174.

Sent you a PM

Awesome. Cheers.

 

[Val Keating]

Back then it was jerks like AL gores missus and her fundy Christian political sh*thead lackeys.

But its a fine line. I'm not really a fan of racist abuse passing itself off as comedy. And the law tends to frown on reacting to that sort of thing in a reasonable and proportional manner.

But at the same time ...

Joe Rogan making stupid comments is one thing, he also debated Ben Shapiro (there is a 20 minute edit on youtube) and never concedes what Shapiro is saying about institutionalised racism and poor outcomes for black people not being a systemic problem in the united states,and he flatly refuses to accept that it isn't the ongoing legacy of racism EDIT - and slavery. He doesn't let Shapiro go off on a stupid rant at any time, he always brings it back to how f’ed up the situation is for poor black Americans and it isn't their fault. Shapiro never has anything of substance to respond to that. Everyone who tuned in to hear Shapiro and Rogan pay out wokeness got something else instead. (Although I've only seen bits of that show in that 20 min version so other stuff may have been said in the whole three hours.)

Rogan was patient and calm about it and if anyone went there with Shapiro's attitude but actually listened to Rogan then they would have come away with a different perspective. He didn't berate Shapiro either tho at times he seemed to be losing patience with him. SO even more importantly people who might have Shapiro's attitude were never in a situation where they would have put up shutters and doubled down in response to what they'd think of as woke bullshit. He just asked questions that Shapiro couldn't really answer without going into NPC mode and parroting stuff.

So his ledger is still in the ... er... black


so to speak.


Rogan is acknowledging the problem in a way someone like black Mayor of Washington Muriel Bowser didn't despite all the bullshit stunts. She painted "Black Lives Matter" in huge letter across a road, changed some street signs, made some noises about defunding the police and then budgeted 10 million more dollars for the cops!!! She's black, and a Democrat but Joe Rogan has more understanding of the situation than her.

Defund the police isn't really about no more cops either, despite the rhetoric. Its about putting the money that goes into the militarisation of police forces into social programs to address disadvantage and lower the crime rate by giving people options for a proper life.

Anyway I'm rambling...

Another thing that those old musos and rappers were into that Tipper Gore didn't like was anti authoritarianism.

Rogan talks about that stuff a lot…the echoes of slavery, redlining, people just being born into bad situations and cycles that won’t be broken unless there is real change in the way places in cities like Chicago, New Orleans etc are just ignored because it’s almost like the US government has given up on them.

There’s Billions of tax dollars dedicated to fixing these things but it just gets chewed up and nothing is done to make meaningful changes and people running the foundations are getting rich.

 

[goalieboy82]

Coach Emeritus Scamper from this morning:

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

People are still doing comedy like Eddie & Richard today. People just complain when they do. Look at Bill Burr and Dave Chapelle. sh*t even in Dave’s last special he went down a similar role as a story teller rather then joker. As you probably know he’s been at war with the LGBTQ2 community, so he told a story about a friend of his that killed her self because she was trans and the trans community turned on her when she found out she was friends with Dave.

I'm vaguely aware of the Chappelle controversy with the trans community. The problem with this thread is that somebody throws out a random comment and I think, "Shit, is that true? What is the evidence to support that?" and the next thing I know I've lost half an hour of my life checking out shit that wasn't really on my radar. That's not generally a problem, except when I've got more important things to do. But, you know, "easily distracted" was a recurring theme on my school reports so it's hardly a new thing. ("Needs to consider the people he associates with" was another one now that I think about it).

So I'm going to resist the urge to look more deeply into that Dave Chappelle thing, because it immediately raises questions with me. Do we know who the friend was? What else was going on in her life? What was the nature of the vilification from other members of the trans community? Was it a lot of people, or a few bad eggs? I'm not assuming that Chappelle made it up, or exaggerated it, I guess I'm just generally wary of taking things at face value.

I did listen to a Bill Burr podcast this morning while I walked the dog, and I must say he struck me as PC. Not in the sense of a fighter for PC values, more that he seemed to be a kind, decent human being who would be open-minded and accepting of other people. Not the type to tell a trans/homophobic or holocaust joke. It was only about half an hour because then he got on to the NFL, and if I followed it I'm sure it would be really entertaining, but I don't. (I was struck by some of the similarities with AFL discussion before I turned it off - complaining about rule changes, pointing out that the game is far too offensively focused to the point where defence is becoming irrelevant.) But yeah, bit of a snap judgement based on a general impression.

 

[goalieboy82]

Coach Emeritus Scamper from this morning:
View attachment 1325078

no beating around the bash as they say with this one:
Scamper is starting to show his age (took he extra time to jump to where his bed is). he is still very healthy (for a 15, going to be 16 in April) cat.

 

[Themanbun]

no beating around the bash as they say with this one:
Scamper is starting to show his age (took he extra time to jump to where his bed is). he is still very healthy (for a 15, going to be 16 in April) cat.

Now this is the content I came for

 

[goalieboy82]

no beating around the bash as they say with this one:
Scamper is starting to show his age (took he extra time to jump to where his bed is). he is still very healthy (for a 15, going to be 16 in April) cat.

he was very happy to see me this morning (meowed and purred loudly and rubbed his head on my hand)

 

[goalieboy82]

Now this is the content I can't for

is that the Queen's English.

 

[Themanbun]

is that the Queen's English.

Autocorrect English

 

[goalieboy82]

Autocorrect English

i hate that too.

 

[Val Keating]

I'm vaguely aware of the Chappelle controversy with the trans community. The problem with this thread is that somebody throws out a random comment and I think, "sh*t, is that true? What is the evidence to support that?" and the next thing I know I've lost half an hour of my life checking out sh*t that wasn't really on my radar. That's not generally a problem, except when I've got more important things to do. But, you know, "easily distracted" was a recurring theme on my school reports so it's hardly a new thing. ("Needs to consider the people he associates with" was another one now that I think about it).

So I'm going to resist the urge to look more deeply into that Dave Chappelle thing, because it immediately raises questions with me. Do we know who the friend was? What else was going on in her life? What was the nature of the vilification from other members of the trans community? Was it a lot of people, or a few bad eggs? I'm not assuming that Chappelle made it up, or exaggerated it, I guess I'm just generally wary of taking things at face value.

I did listen to a Bill Burr podcast this morning while I walked the dog, and I must say he struck me as PC. Not in the sense of a fighter for PC values, more that he seemed to be a kind, decent human being who would be open-minded and accepting of other people. Not the type to tell a trans/homophobic or holocaust joke. It was only about half an hour because then he got on to the NFL, and if I followed it I'm sure it would be really entertaining, but I don't. (I was struck by some of the similarities with AFL discussion before I turned it off - complaining about rule changes, pointing out that the game is far too offensively focused to the point where defence is becoming irrelevant.) But yeah, bit of a snap judgement based on a general impression.

To your first point I imagine she had other issues and it was the tipping point, but I don’t know.

As for Bill Burr, he’s definitely not PC but yes he is a good guy, most people are. For example he got into trouble for using the word f word for gay people, he says he grew up using it with mates and they don’t mean it that way. He got smashed by the critics for his last special because they weren’t pc, think the rotten tomatoes score from critics was almost zero but then when it was released to the public it went to about 99%.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I posted this in the Viking Clap thread, but it should more properly be here:

Heard some fantastic podcasts about the oft-neglected eastward expeditions of the vikings recently.





The Islamic writer Ibn Faldun's account of a Viking funeral is fascinatingly gruesome (Warning: includes rape, assault and murder):

he dead chieftain was put in a temporary grave which was covered for ten days until they had sewn new clothes for him. One of his thrall women volunteered to join him in the afterlife and she was guarded day and night, being given a great amount of intoxicating drinks while she sang happily. When the time had arrived for cremation, they pulled his longship ashore and put it on a platform of wood, and they made a bed for the dead chieftain on the ship. Thereafter, an old woman referred to as the “Angel of Death” put cushions on the bed. She was responsible for the ritual. Then they disinterred the chieftain and gave him new clothes. In his grave, he received intoxicating drinks, fruits and a stringed instrument. The chieftain was put into his bed with all his weapons and grave offerings around him. Then they had two horses run themselves sweaty, cut them to pieces, and threw the meat into the ship. Finally, they sacrificed a hen and a ****.

Meanwhile, the thrall girl went from one tent to the other and had sexual intercourse with the men. Every man told her “tell your master that I did this because of my love to him”. While in the afternoon, they moved the thrall girl to something that looked like a door frame, where she was lifted on the palms of the men three times. Every time, the girl told of what she saw. The first time, she saw her father and mother, the second time, she saw all her relatives, and the third time she saw her master in the afterworld. There, it was green and beautiful and together with him, she saw men and young boys. She saw that her master beckoned for her. By using intoxicating drinks, they thought to put the thrall girl in an ecstatic trance that made her psychic and through the symbolic action with the door frame, she would then see into the realm of the dead. The same ritual also appears in the Icelandic short story Völsa þáttr where two pagan Norwegian men lift the lady of the household over a door frame to help her look into the otherworld.

Thereafter, the thrall girl was taken away to the ship. She removed her bracelets and gave them to the old woman. Thereafter she removed her finger rings and gave them to the old woman’s daughters, who had guarded her. Then they took her aboard the ship, but they did not allow her to enter the tent where the dead chieftain lay. The girl received several vessels of intoxicating drinks and she sang and bade her friends farewell.

Then the girl was pulled into the tent and the men started to beat on the shields so her screams could not be heard. Six men entered into the tent to have intercourse with the girl, after which they put her onto her master’s bed. Two men grabbed her hands and two men her wrists. The angel of death put a rope around her neck and while two men pulled the rope, the old woman stabbed the girl between her ribs with a knife. Thereafter, the relatives of the dead chieftain arrived with a burning torch and set the ship aflame. It is said that the fire facilitates the voyage to the realm of the dead, but unfortunately, the account does not tell to which realm the deceased was to go.

Afterwards, a round barrow was built over the ashes and in the center of the mound they erected a staff of birch wood, where they carved the names of the dead chieftain and his king. Then they departed in their ships.

I was thinking this morning, how lucky are we to have had the Islamic scholars and intellectuals of the middle ages? It is generally well-known that many of the scientific, literary, and historical works of the ancient world have come to us via the Arabic translations from that period. But I wonder whether any of them would have been actually lost to the world otherwise, or would they simply have been found and translated to modern European languages at a later time?

Like all counter-factuals, that's kind of pointless to ponder. However, those contemporaneous accounts of the world from people like Ibn Fadlan and Ibn Battuta are priceless. It's so incredibly frequent that Christian European sources of historical events are written 200 or more years after the events and contain so much myth and legend that historians end up trying to detangle what we can actually take to be true. They also generally have a great deal of overt bias and assumptions based on their own world-view. The Islamic sources aren't perfect in this regard of course, but there's something almost modern about their scientific and dispassionate description of events. When I say modern, I guess they have a rough equivalence with western European writings of the 18th and 19th century. They believed themselves to be neutral and scientific, but failed to recognise the inherent biases arising from their own religious and cultural beliefs.

Anyhoo, that's my random thought for the day.