Autopsy Rd 19 Coachkilling Blues smashed by last placed Roos

[outabounds]

So disappointing, we haven't put 4 quarters of consistent good football together for the entire year. We were poor for a fair percentage of last weeks game against a very ordinary Collingwood. I am sorry to say I do not see us going anywhere under Teague. The gameplan is unacceptable, the accountability is unacceptable and has no ability to give the team the boot up the backside that is needed. I feel sorry for him but something has to change. This group needs a coach who can demand their respect and who has the ability to scare them into action. the writing has been on the wall all season and its just a matter of when not if. I would not be surprised to see him go this week.

 

[Hands On]

This loss is so deflating not as many of the usual suspects have come in to vent. This is n good the angry Mob has deteriorated. Cant even finish my usual bucket of popcorn.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Four games left in the season... what's the point of getting all out of bed now about it. We appoint an interim coach for 4 weeks, run through a process again after we get the results of the review which says that Teague needed better support in terms of an experienced mentor and some better quality assistant coaches in certain areas. We pay big money for a big name coach which blows out our soft cap and we can't afford to get the big name coach some half decent assistants. In 2-3 years time, we are still in the same boat we are now... and we have all the usual suspects baying for the big name coaches head.

We've seen it played out 6 times already in the last 20 years... what's another 4 weeks.

Now, as for todays game. I saw a team with zero key forwards trying to play the game. Losing Harry and having to try Cripps up forward as a tall forward was always going to adversely affect our game plan. Then rotating him through the middle to rest the 188cm Kennedy was robbing Peter to pay Paul, who had already robbed Peter. And then we moved Weitering into the forward line once the horse had already bolted.

Todays loss was down to list management. We delisted 4 talls at the end of last year... and then used our PSSS to pick up a tall as an after thought. The club knew Charlie was going to be out until towards the end of the season and didn't plan accordingly. They would have known that Casboult was running around with a bung knee and couldn't jump any more. Marchbank was a shock out with his ACL before the MSD. OMac with his stress fracture in his back was also a bit of a shock considering his preseason game form. Gov pinged his hammy... probably won't be back this year.

So suddenly... or not so suddenly, we're down to 1 walking wounded forward/ruck, 1 tall forward, 1 tall utility, 2 ruckmen, and 2 tall defenders. And zero talls in the reserves we can call on. So what does the list management team do... draft a project ruckman and a small defender. After we'd moved Philp to the LTI list and ended his season. So instead of drafting backup key talls, we've drafted nothing that we could use if for some insane reason, Casboult went down with his knee or/and Harry goes down with turf toe again. But hey... that project ruckman was so handy when Pitto went dow... oh wait... he was already injured by then.

What happens if Jones' back goes again? We're down to 1 tall defender in Weitering, a tall utility player in JSOS, a tall midfield in Cripps, and TDK. That's it... that's all our tall players over 194cm in height. That's also assuming that McKay gets back up from his turf toe injury... but if I remember the last time he had it, he was out for a couple of months? Oh, Charlie comes back the weekend after next... maybe.

So really... tell me why I should toss my toys out of the pram over Teague when we have other more pressing issues... like no talls.

Teague will be gone, but it will be done end of season, of that I have no doubt.

Today's loss was not down to list management... I've already clearly explained it enough times that I won't do so again. But one thing I'll add... why not play Kemp if we're so low on talls?? Emergency for what? If a tall goes out late then you replace him with another tall in your emergencies...

And people wanting Teague gone is not about throwing toys out of the cot... the sample size of this season is more than enough. We have an AA KPD, an AA mid who is a smoky for the Brownlow and an AA FF who will likely win the Coleman. Yet here we are still getting killed by the bottom team.

Sorry, but it's clear Teague is not taking this group anywhere. Your heart's in the right place, I understand that you want stability. But the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and that's what we've got from Teague unfortunately.

 

[luke livingston seagull]

Obviously not the biggest issue to come out of this game, but Cripps fist-pumping his goal on the final siren when we’re 40 pts down to the bottom side is horrendous. Love him as a footballer, but he’s celebrated his own work when we’ve been out of games way too often over the years. It’s arrogant, dumb, and achieves nothing except to raise serious questions about his captaincy. Dees made the right call with Jack Viney

7

Jack Viney

Age

30

Ht

179cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.1

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

12.6

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.7

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

21.8

5star

K

10.3

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

as did Port with Wines, I wonder if it’s something we’ll look at this off-season.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

How did North build a better talent base than us? This club exhausts me

They didn’t spend huge cash on free agents (they tried but no one wanted to play for them)....

This forced them to commit to the draft and give young talent extended opportunity.

We spent big money on injury prone, flimsy, flash in the pan type players and haven’t given our young talent extended opportunities at senior level to develop.

 

[Dramoth]

Not sure why you feel the need to whack me to make your point, but whatever helps you, I guess.

I agree, we need stability, and I agree that we’ve gone early on some coaches in the past.
But hanging on to an incompetent, terrible, coach now, who is out of his depth, to make up for the past makes no sense to me.

Teague is no good. You’ll realise this when we replace him and you see immediate improvement.

Why I feel the need to whack you... because you only ever seem to show up to take pot shots at the coach after a loss. After a win, you're off in the breeze. I feel that despite your "membership length and status", you show a significant amount of disloyalty to the club and the staff who work at the club with your attitude and comments. If you only feel the need to show up and bitch and moan about the coach after a loss and there is no sign of you after a win, then you're not really much of a supporter are you.

Dead cat bounce mate... dead cat bounce. That's what you really mean when you say immediate improvement. Players putting their best foot forward to show the new coach how good they are. They have a good start to the next season... or finish off the season well... and then fall in a hole again and the new coach is gone in a couple of years. Call me a cynic about "immediate improvement" comments... because we've seen it all before.

 

[walga]

The thing is at the end of the day everyone on here wants success and have different views on how it should be achieved.

It's obvious, Teague at this current point does not appear to be able to take things forward. The question is if he was to be surrounded with suitable assistants/mentors would he listen?

Carlton is at another crossroad. Go for the messiah (Clarkson, Scott etc) or persist with Teague. Personally I don't think the players will play for him.

But as many have said the club has issues from the top down. I have no faith the findings of the review will be followed. We as a club are in a massive mess and I not sure we have the foresight to get ourselves out of it.

I'll keep buying my membership etc but I fear we are the next St Kilda.

On SM-T865 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[branedotorg]

.
Now, as for todays game. I saw a team with zero key forwards trying to play the game. Losing Harry and having to try Cripps up forward as a tall forward was always going to adversely affect our game plan. Then rotating him through the middle to rest the 188cm Kennedy was robbing Peter to pay Paul, who had already robbed Peter. And then we moved Weitering into the forward line once the horse had already bolted.

But why were we trying to play a game plan of kick into a big forward and/or lock in and force a forward stoppage if we knew Cripps and Kennedy would be the only forward?

Why when we compressed the game into our F50 and they slingshotted it out and up the end for a goal, over and over did nothing change?

No fit talls is a football department issue.
How the game was planned and how the tactical coaching went on the day isn't on list management imo.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Not sure why you feel the need to whack me to make your point, but whatever helps you, I guess.

I agree, we need stability, and I agree that we’ve gone early on some coaches in the past.
But hanging on to an incompetent, terrible, coach now, who is out of his depth, to make up for the past makes no sense to me.

Teague is no good. You’ll realise this when we replace him and you see immediate improvement.

"I believe in this group ...." ........

 

[Jimmyonesix]

This is just so incorrect.

Cunnington & Goldstein are our senior staples who played big midfield minutes.

Our midfield mix for the majority of the game included those two and…

Tarryn Thomas, 21 and has played 10 games as a midfielder.

Stephenson, 22 and has played 10 games as a midfielder.

LDU, 22 and has played 40 odd games.

Simpkin, 23.

Phillips, 19.

Scott, 21.

Anderson attended some CBA’s later in the game once the young guys tired.

Our midfield is young & inexperienced, as is our forward line. Our backline is where the majority of our senior players feature.

Yes your midfield looks like can push deep into the finals next year .. been a great turn around from you guys .. keep up the support ..

 

[FRUMPY]

Obviously not the biggest issue to come out of this game, but Cripps fist-pumping his goal on the final siren when we’re 40 pts down to the bottom side is horrendous. Love him as a footballer, but he’s celebrated his own work when we’ve been out of games way too often over the years. It’s arrogant, dumb, and achieves nothing except to raise serious questions about his captaincy. Dees made the right call with Jack Viney

7

Jack Viney

Age

30

Ht

179cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.1

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

12.6

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.7

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

21.8

5star

K

10.3

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

as did Port with Wines, I wonder if it’s something we’ll look at this off-season.

Did the same last year vs the crows

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Teague will be gone, but it will be done end of season, of that I have no doubt.

Today's loss was not down to list management... I've already clearly explained it enough times that I won't do so again. But one thing I'll add... why not play Kemp if we're so low on talls?? Emergency for what? If a tall goes out late then you replace him with another tall in your emergencies...

And people wanting Teague gone is not about throwing toys out of the cot... the sample size of this season is more than enough. We have an AA KPD, an AA mid who is a smoky for the Brownlow and an AA FF who will likely win the Coleman. Yet here we are still getting killed by the bottom team.

Sorry, but it's clear Teague is not taking this group anywhere. Your heart's in the right place, I understand that you want stability. But the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and that's what we've got from Teague unfortunately.

In other words, if we had the world's greatest coach means we win against the bottom side by one point? Injuries and unpicked juniors aside, half the side aren't up to it. I don't care about a lack of talls today, this loss, and our substandard coach, they are only symptoms of a half-arsed attitude going back for donkey's years.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

But why were we trying to play a game plan of kick into a big forward and/or lock in and force a forward stoppage if we knew Cripps and Kennedy would be the only forward?

Why when we compressed the game into our F50 and they slingshotted it out and up the end for a goal, over and over did nothing change?

No fit talls is a football department issue.
How the game was planned and how the tactical coaching went on the day isn't on list management imo.

Because we started the year with curnow Mackay mcgovern silvagni -- we planned for this so we will finish like this ready for next year

 

[Kernafides]

The repetitive drive off half back to an open forward line screamed of poor structure. Did Teague try to combat it or are the players just lazy. Personally I'd move Teague on.

 

[Zuribagger]

Harry, Charlie, LOB/Ramsay and Kemp in.

Murphy, SPS, Cottrell, Willo and Cripps out.

Murph done, had a chance to show a last burst of heart and earn your spot, did nothing of the sort, give the vest to someone else.

SPS just doesn't work hard enough. He and Setters have been incredibly disappointing in this regard. Makes way for one of the returning talls.

Cottrell works hard and has some good moments, but LOBs ceiling is much higher and we need to give him a run of games in that position. If not LOB then reward Ramsay's previous form and give him a taste.

Book Cripps in for whatever surgery he needs and rest him up for the preseason. Kennedy to play that midfield role full time. Makes room for the second returning tall forward.

Willo is still young and inconsistent. Not gonna write him off but there's nothing wrong with dropping him to play Kemp instead.

Plow, Weiters Jones
Saad, Stocker, Williams
Newnes, Walsh, LOB
TDK, Kennedy, Dow
Martin, McKay, Silvagni
Betts, Curnow, Owies
I/C: Curnow, Newman, Kemp, Fisher

I see it the same way, except not sure which of Kemp/Honey/Willo for that last spot.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

He needs to play his role around better outside players, Curnow, Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy are not the types to have in a midfield mix around him.

Think what caliber of players guys like Diesel & Ratts has around them. Their strengths were winning it in tight and feeding runners such as Bradley, Kouta, Brown, Camporeale, Christou etc

The current midfield mix is so poor and do not compliment each other’s strengths.

Ideally Cripps would be playing Ed Curnows role with a better mix of talent/strengths around him.

Having said that, when it’s your turn to chase, tackle and bust an arse to pressure you have got to give maximum effort irrespective of your standing or role in the team.

We lost flag opportunities in 93 & 94 partly because Diesel was being exploited in the middle and refused to rotate out and could not apply defensive pressure.

Changed his role and spent more time forward in 95 and wins a norm smith in one of the most dominant teams and individual performances of all time.

Cripps may need to add to his game or strengths to give us more flexibility in a similar way.

Now we on the same page .. they keep saying we build side around cripps and that initial draft of talls but we a far removed from it end of 2019 hindered us not helped us .. immediately we need at least one proper mid a true small forward and a genuine stopper full back who doesn't go around leaking goals for fun in one half then plays like southby the next -one young KP plus some heart and plenty of good instruction -- just as we needed the last 3 years

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Now we on the same page .. they keep saying we build side around cripps and that initial draft of talls but we a far removed from it end of 2019 hindered us not helped us .. immediately we need at least one proper mid a true small forward and a genuine stopper full back who doesn't go around leaking goals for fun in one half then plays like southby the next -one young KP plus some heart and plenty of good instruction -- just as we needed the last 3 years

So Cerra, Pickett and Talia?

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

If there is one thing to say about Carlton it’s definately not that we are ruthless. I would say we are probably the least ruthless team in the competition

Rossy will fix that

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Saad must be spewing!

 

[Dramoth]

Teague will be gone, but it will be done end of season, of that I have no doubt.

Today's loss was not down to list management... I've already clearly explained it enough times that I won't do so again. But one thing I'll add... why not play Kemp if we're so low on talls?? Emergency for what? If a tall goes out late then you replace him with another tall in your emergencies...

And people wanting Teague gone is not about throwing toys out of the cot... the sample size of this season is more than enough. We have an AA KPD, an AA mid who is a smoky for the Brownlow and an AA FF who will likely win the Coleman. Yet here we are still getting killed by the bottom team.

Sorry, but it's clear Teague is not taking this group anywhere. Your heart's in the right place, I understand that you want stability. But the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and that's what we've got from Teague unfortunately.

Yup... madness... doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Stability is a much overrated thing at Carlton. Why have stability when you can hire a coach and sack him in a couple of years... and get in another coach... and sack him a couple of years after that. Don't bother getting in better assistant coaches... the senior coach isn't going to be there all that long anyway.

Brittain - 2 seasons... 2001 took us to 5th spot, 2002, aging list crashed to last. Jack sacks him and hire Pagan... a premiership coach to take us to the promised land. And then the AFL smacks us with salary cap infringement penalties.
Pagan - 2003-2007 (minus 6 games). 2003 15th (out of 16), 2004 11th... awesome... we're on the way back. 2005... oops... 16th. 2006 - umm... not looking good for Pagan with another wooden spoon. 2007... sacked with 6 games left to go.
Ratten - 2007-2012 6 games in 2007, 2008... whoa nose bleed time 11th. 2009 Finals... finally... out in 1. 2010... finals again... out in one. 2011... finals... yeah... won one... nice. 2012... round 4 it all goes to s**t after being touted as the premiership favourites after the first 3 rounds. Mathieson starts recruiting Malthouse about the same time. Ratts sacked after losing to Gold Coast... after the media had been leaking that the club had lined up Malthouse as his replacement.
Malthouse 2013-2015... 8 games into 2015, the club sacked him. We finished bottom... again. 2013, we make the finals after news breaks that Essendon had been systematically doping the year before. We actually finished 9th. One spot higher than Ratts did when we sacked him the year before. 2014 - meh.
Barker 2015-2015 - 14 games, 3 wins.
Bolton 2015-2019 - start of the rebuild. Halfway through 2019, after we'd won another wooden spoon in 2018 on the back of Barker's wonderful tactics as the head of strategy and high performance... Bolton is given the punt... despite promises that the club would support him for 5 years, he's done.
Teague 2019-present - 11 games as interim coach, 6 wins, 5 losses. 2020, COVID-19 ****ed up everyones world. 17 games. 7 wins. 2021, still in covid's shadow... the hounds start baying for the blood of yet another Carlton coach.

You know what real madness is... judging a coach on a single season's results when he is only in his second full year as a senior coach. Real madness is thinking that things will change just by bringing in another coach. Maybe they will... but based on our record for the last 20 seasons and a bit... we'll have a couple of good years, a couple of bad years... maybe... and then we're sacking a coach again. Can you sort of see the pattern we've created for ourselves... almost like we're getting in a coach to take us back to the finals... and then we sack him when he doesn't. That's doing the same thing... over... and over... again... and again... and expecting different results each time.

You know what would be different? Not sacking a coach when we have a bad season. Backing the coach in to turn it around the following year. Backing the coach by using the money that would pay for a big name senior coach and get in a couple of good assistant coaches instead of the drek we currently have. Get rid of Stanton and Bruce and get in a good midfield coach and a good forwards coach as well as a part time dedicated goal kicking coach. Get in a proper mentor for Teague. We only need a single coach for the midfield. Power is the development coach, so he is already on our books as a coach. If Mathieson was going to pay a million a year for Clarkson, as well as covering the fine we'd cop from the AFL over the soft cap, put that million to paying a bit extra to get some good assistants to support Teague.

Now that would be different for Carlton... instead of just sacking yet another senior coach.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Anyone reckon they can phoneticise the sound Teague makes before answering the first question of each weeks press conference?

I’m going with ‘Doourrrruiu”

That annoys the s**t out of me.

 

[Drexl 31]

Glad I saw the 80's. Fear we will never reach those heights again.

 

[the big lebowski]

Just an opinion.

Today was multiple factors hitting you at once.

1: the make up of your side: even before Mckay was ruled out I was shocked at your lack of talls. It made it obvious to me we could expect a 5 goal win. You can’t put a skinny kid up aginst Goldy and a second ruckman. Don’t get me wrong Tom looks great longterm but he needs backup. That gave our midfield first use. This leads me to....

2: I think you need to get genuine mids to back up Walsh (best young player in the comp) and Cripps. You especially can’t expect much taking Cripps out to play forward. Dow looks like a good and much needed second stringer, he’ll only get better. But our young mids are looking especially good, we had all bar Powell out there and all with heaps of confidence. We have killed teams out of the Center the last month, including the dogs. So whilst the ladder says last we are obviously better than that.

Playing Mckay, curnow, and de koning forward with another ruck changes the team considerably.

 

[RedFury]

Glad I saw the 80's. Fear we will never reach those heights again.

Saw it too - as a kid. Took it for granted horribly. If I could go back I'd definitely appreciate it more, as I now fear it's all I'm going to ever get.

 

[forever blue 1]

Could you blame him…form was great and Teague has pretty well coached him out of it today.

The amnesty

Even he and/or his Dad couldn't have coached this mob today.

but the old Carlton was like
Eat s**t or die
If you didn’t perform over 4 weeks
You were gone

Wasn't confident pre-game. Kangas have a high-quality midfield and that is always a danger for us. Ours is arguably worst in league and I would say definitely bottom 3. It's the sad reality. Doesn't excuse the lack of effort that we've seen most weeks for almost 20 years, but I do wonder if it plays a part - lack of belief in each other, no belief that we're a top team.

We shouldn't have given Cripps the contract we did.

We need to move on from any plans of winning a flag in the Cripps/Doc era - if it happens, great, but all eggs need to go into winning a flag with the Walsh/Weiters generation.

We suck, we've sucked all year, we've sucked for many years. Occasionally we can put together a good performance. The fact it's an anomaly is all you need to know that we are sh*te. Any other view is simply head in sand stuff - a fear of acknowledging reality.

Many holes with the list to fill, but the almighty task is fixing the culture.

when I found out about the size of Cripps’ contract, I face palmed myself. That was truly stupid and it will bite us very hard in my opinion