Autopsy Rd 5 BELTED! Power turns the Blues lights out

Who player well for the Blues vs Port?


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  • Poll closed .

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Iamcarlton

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Oct 11, 2015
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The flat-footedness was driving every one around us insane. Very visible from where we were sitting.
Meaning as a group they werent invested 100% in performing to the best they can be individually and as a team on the night .

Reactionary rather than proactive again not fully invested mind not 100% on the job .
When your not fully switched on is when disposal and decision making errors will creep in .
Its a common theme with Carlton sides we'll see the frenetic effort once a month that makes us a half decent side doing the things that win football games .

But then the energy goes out of them and we see meh performances that seem like they are having a go but in essence they are going through the motions .
Its mediocrity that has been cultivated over many years by comfortable players that dont fear their position in the side .

This comes back to selection issues .
Match committees at Carlton dont drop entrenched players for poor performance or meek physical efforts virtually at all .
We saw a captain Nathan Jones last year dropped from Melbournes side for a period
of time Carlton just dont do this .
You see other clubs entrenched players dropped for short periods if they arent meeting requirements .
Imo this is our biggest problem Match committee selection not injuries or who we are running out on the ground with each week .
Until the playing group as a whole not just the young players are sent a clear message that requirements are to be met by all players on the list we will continue to see inconsistent performances no matter who we have in the side .
 

Brackets

All Australian
Nov 7, 2019
875
2,969
AFL Club
Carlton
Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1W 5 - 3 (8)
Ed Williams CrippsWalsh doesn't care if he's starting or not, still wins it to Cripps for a scrubby clearance
Walsh Kennedy Cripps (LC)Cripps breaks through but could have been a bit cleaner with handball to Walsh. He dishes it off to Doc who can only get a chip to forward square.
Ed Cripps Kennedy (LC)Dixon wins the tap, Cripps and Kennedy hard at it. I've already given my thoughts about the Port free awarded here.
Ed Cripps WalshNice jump from Pitto, taps down to Cripps, strong, to Walsh charging through, back to Cripps and defenders for wing clearance
Ed Cripps WalshPoor checking by Ed and possibly Cripps aids their clearance but it was nice work from Lycett
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap, good work by Cripps and Walsh but unlucky bounce prevents clearance, Port gather back of square and clear
Ed Walsh CrippsNice tap from Pitto to Cripps for a softer free than many not paid. Not allowed to play on stupidly.
Cripps Ed WalshPitto collects and bangs it forward
Quarter 2L 2 - 4 (6)
Ed Williams CrippsEd played loose on Amon and he got the clearance. Bad bounce for Williams and Pitto left Lycett unchecked who assisted.
Williams Ed WalshSome of these frees they pick out are utterly ridiculous when you see what isn't called. Soft free against Williams.
Walsh Kennedy EdStoppage from which the pull out a ruck infringement against Pitt. Port allowed the advantage
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)Levi nice tap down to Cripps who breaks away and pumps it i50
Ed Walsh KennedyPitto spoils the pass, opts for the mouse in the house run up to it off the ground for clearance
Ed Walsh CrippsInitial viewing looked like Cripps trying to do too much but it wasn't the case. Couldn't get the clean pass and they clear
Quarter 3W 5 - 4 (9)
Ed Cripps WalshWalsh on the move, Lycett wins tap but Walsh tackles Boak, Ed great smoother, Walsh wins contested ball for effective clearance forward square
Walsh Ed CrippsCripps is held for one of the most blatant holding frees you could give, is ignored and his man assists the clearance
Ed Cripps WalshLycett taps to Wines who is too strong and clears
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap but to Boak, if it was a set play it was brilliant or it could have been just fortunate, either way they clear
Williams Kennedy EdLycett jumps all over Pitto early. Pitto with the easy collect and dashes away Danger style for an i50. Credit to MK for bodywork on Wines
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)LC may have tapped it, either way odd bounce that Walsh is quickest to read, uses Gibbo to Cripps for running shot or deep i50
Ed Cripps WalshPitto tries to grab it out of the ruck, fumbles, they collect and clear it
Ed Kennedy WalshI had to include a gif of this. IMO our best centre clearance of the year, so far as ruck and mid being in sync. Beautiful tap from Pitto and flick from Kennedy. Wozers, where did that come from 😍
Ed Williams WalshNaturally we take Kennedy out of the centre for the rest of the game. What on earth was our rationale for that. This one, stoppage, Pitto free and we clear. Whatever.
Quarter 4W 4 - 1 (5)
Fogarty Walsh WilliamsPitto wins tap but it's straight down with no real intent, Fog strong tackle, Williams handballs wide, Walsh mops up and it gets back to Williams for effective wing clearance
Ed Walsh
Cripps (LC)
Levi wins the tap, fortunate bounce allows Cripps an easy give to Ed who bombs it i50
Ed Cripps WilliamsBad bounce that Pitt gets a hand to, Ed's handball intercepted, falls Cripps way who was legged and uses Williams for a scrubber i50
Ed Cripps WalshBounce recalled. Pitto taps it forward to where Wines ran unchecked (Ed was our free defensive side). Lack of cohesion as our mids weren't ready for it.
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto beaming from his goal. Falls to Gray who throws it to Ed for a bomb i50. Walsh pressured Gray but I haven't given him a contribution here
TotalW 16 - 12 (28)

Attended (clearance contributions)

Total /28Q1 /8Q2 /6Q3 /9Q4 /5
Ed24 (5)7(0)5(0)8(2)4(3)
Walsh23 (5)6(2)5(0)8(2)4(1)
Cripps21 (8)8(4)3(1)6(1)4(2)
Williams9 (2)1(0)3(0)3(0)2(2)
Kennedy6 (1)2(0)2(0)2(1)0
Fogarty1 (1)0001(1)

Most used:
Cripps Ed Walsh x 14 (L 6 - 8)
Cripps Ed Williams x 3 (W 2 - 1)
Walsh Ed Kennedy x 3 (W 2 - 1)

Observations
- Our best game in the centre clearances this year imo. There was clear intent to get on the move, more than previously. Walsh led the way but I liked we were mixing up our positioning throughout the game. Needed to be just a bit cleaner to improve effectiveness.

- Pitto's best game in the ruck as well. Was jumping high on occasions, getting involved for clearances or assisting much more than he had previously. For the most part tap work had purpose.

- Levi isn't pretty in the ruck, usually jumping too early but it puts their ruck off, he often gets his hand to it, and backs up play. I still think he would be far from a bad option as a short term starting ruck given his follow up work.

- Ed's clearance work is probably underrated. He is a competitor and does some really great work in tight. I don't think though he should ever pay loose from his man as he does on occasions.

- I liked Kennedy and Williams when they could get involved. It's close to clicking for Williams, while Kennedy could adequately replace Cripps or Ed if needed I feel.

- Cripps has copped criticism for trying to do it all but he isn't looking to do it alone in the centre clearances at least. He looks to give it off probably more than any other.

Watching just the clearances in isolation, I thought we looked quite strong and a level above Port, which I wasn't expecting. Leaves me feeling much more positive about our prospects going forward. Just a shame about the parts in between.

Here's that gif for some positivity:

Perfection.gif
 

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FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
24,493
27,732
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1W 5 - 3 (8)
Ed Williams CrippsWalsh doesn't care if he's starting or not, still wins it to Cripps for a scrubby clearance
Walsh Kennedy Cripps (LC)Cripps breaks through but could have been a bit cleaner with handball to Walsh. He dishes it off to Doc who can only get a chip to forward square.
Ed Cripps Kennedy (LC)Dixon wins the tap, Cripps and Kennedy hard at it. I've already given my thoughts about the Port free awarded here.
Ed Cripps WalshNice jump from Pitto, taps down to Cripps, strong, to Walsh charging through, back to Cripps and defenders for wing clearance
Ed Cripps WalshPoor checking by Ed and possibly Cripps aids their clearance but it was nice work from Lycett
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap, good work by Cripps and Walsh but unlucky bounce prevents clearance, Port gather back of square and clear
Ed Walsh CrippsNice tap from Pitto to Cripps for a softer free than many not paid. Not allowed to play on stupidly.
Cripps Ed WalshPitto collects and bangs it forward
Quarter 2L 2 - 4 (6)
Ed Williams CrippsEd played loose on Amon and he got the clearance. Bad bounce for Williams and Pitto left Lycett unchecked who assisted.
Williams Ed WalshSome of these frees they pick out are utterly ridiculous when you see what isn't called. Soft free against Williams.
Walsh Kennedy EdStoppage from which the pull out a ruck infringement against Pitt. Port allowed the advantage
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)Levi nice tap down to Cripps who breaks away and pumps it i50
Ed Walsh KennedyPitto spoils the pass, opts for the mouse in the house run up to it off the ground for clearance
Ed Walsh CrippsInitial viewing looked like Cripps trying to do too much but it wasn't the case. Couldn't get the clean pass and they clear
Quarter 3W 5 - 4 (9)
Ed Cripps WalshWalsh on the move, Lycett wins tap but Walsh tackles Boak, Ed great smoother, Walsh wins contested ball for effective clearance forward square
Walsh Ed CrippsCripps is held for one of the most blatant holding frees you could give, is ignored and his man assists the clearance
Ed Cripps WalshLycett taps to Wines who is too strong and clears
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap but to Boak, if it was a set play it was brilliant or it could have been just fortunate, either way they clear
Williams Kennedy EdLycett jumps all over Pitto early. Pitto with the easy collect and dashes away Danger style for an i50. Credit to MK for bodywork on Wines
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)LC may have tapped it, either way odd bounce that Walsh is quickest to read, uses Gibbo to Cripps for running shot or deep i50
Ed Cripps WalshPitto tries to grab it out of the ruck, fumbles, they collect and clear it
Ed Kennedy WalshI had to include a gif of this. IMO our best centre clearance of the year, so far as ruck and mid being in sync. Beautiful tap from Pitto and flick from Kennedy. Wozers, where did that come from 😍
Ed Williams WalshNaturally we take Kennedy out of the centre for the rest of the game. What on earth was our rationale for that. This one, stoppage, Pitto free and we clear. Whatever.
Quarter 4W 4 - 1 (5)
Fogarty Walsh WilliamsPitto wins tap but it's straight down with no real intent, Fog strong tackle, Williams handballs wide, Walsh mops up and it gets back to Williams for effective wing clearance
Ed Walsh
Cripps (LC)
Levi wins the tap, fortunate bounce allows Cripps an easy give to Ed who bombs it i50
Ed Cripps WilliamsBad bounce that Pitt gets a hand to, Ed's handball intercepted, falls Cripps way who was legged and uses Williams for a scrubber i50
Ed Cripps WalshBounce recalled. Pitto taps it forward to where Wines ran unchecked (Ed was our free defensive side). Lack of cohesion as our mids weren't ready for it.
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto beaming from his goal. Falls to Gray who throws it to Ed for a bomb i50. Walsh pressured Gray but I haven't given him a contribution here
TotalW 16 - 12 (28)

Attended (clearance contributions)

Total /28Q1 /8Q2 /6Q3 /9Q4 /5
Ed24 (5)7(0)5(0)8(2)4(3)
Walsh23 (5)6(2)5(0)8(2)4(1)
Cripps21 (8)8(4)3(1)6(1)4(2)
Williams9 (2)1(0)3(0)3(0)2(2)
Kennedy6 (1)2(0)2(0)2(1)0
Fogarty1 (1)0001(1)

Most used:
Cripps Ed Walsh x 14 (L 6 - 8)
Cripps Ed Williams x 3 (W 2 - 1)
Walsh Ed Kennedy x 3 (W 2 - 1)

Observations
- Our best game in the centre clearances this year imo. There was clear intent to get on the move, more than previously. Walsh led the way but I liked we were mixing up our positioning throughout the game. Needed to be just a bit cleaner to improve effectiveness.

- Pitto's best game in the ruck as well. Was jumping high on occasions, getting involved for clearances or assisting much more than he had previously. For the most part tap work had purpose.

- Levi isn't pretty in the ruck, usually jumping too early but it puts their ruck off, he often gets his hand to it, and backs up play. I still think he would be far from a bad option as a short term starting ruck given his follow up work.

- Ed's clearance work is probably underrated. He is a competitor and does some really great work in tight. I don't think though he should ever pay loose from his man as he does on occasions.

- I liked Kennedy and Williams when they could get involved. It's close to clicking for Williams, while Kennedy could adequately replace Cripps or Ed if needed I feel.

- Cripps has copped criticism for trying to do it all but he isn't looking to do it alone in the centre clearances at least. He looks to give it off probably more than any other.

Watching just the clearances in isolation, I thought we looked quite strong and a level above Port, which I wasn't expecting. Leaves me feeling much more positive about our prospects going forward. Just a shame about the parts in between.

Here's that gif for some positivity:

View attachment 1107845
Cripps/Walsh/Ed - annoys me we dont put more through the middle - SPS, more of Williams, Murphy (cuningham, stocker) etc

Just to clarify one thing, cripps got a free kick from an umpire out of the play - as far as im aware you cant play on or take advantage from a free kick paid by another umpire.
 

Brackets

All Australian
Nov 7, 2019
875
2,969
AFL Club
Carlton
Cripps/Walsh/Ed - annoys me we dont put more through the middle - SPS, more of Williams, Murphy (cuningham, stocker) etc
Agreed

Just to clarify one thing, cripps got a free kick from an umpire out of the play - as far as im aware you cant play on or take advantage from a free kick paid by another umpire.
Thanks, I thought it may have been you can't take advantage of your own free.
 

Pentatonic Flat Fifth

Team Captain
Suspended
Apr 18, 2021
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Cripps/Walsh/Ed - annoys me we dont put more through the middle - SPS, more of Williams, Murphy (cuningham, stocker) etc

Just to clarify one thing, cripps got a free kick from an umpire out of the play - as far as im aware you cant play on or take advantage from a free kick paid by another umpire.

Because SPS fumbles it more than he cleanly collects it. More than any other player he also frequently runs straight over it. Murphy shirks the contest more than any other player at Carlton - my most frequent observation is him running in and corralling - think he is worried about shoulders, body etc. Cuningham and Stocker would need to be in the team first.
 

Pentatonic Flat Fifth

Team Captain
Suspended
Apr 18, 2021
469
778
AFL Club
Carlton
Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1W 5 - 3 (8)
Ed Williams CrippsWalsh doesn't care if he's starting or not, still wins it to Cripps for a scrubby clearance
Walsh Kennedy Cripps (LC)Cripps breaks through but could have been a bit cleaner with handball to Walsh. He dishes it off to Doc who can only get a chip to forward square.
Ed Cripps Kennedy (LC)Dixon wins the tap, Cripps and Kennedy hard at it. I've already given my thoughts about the Port free awarded here.
Ed Cripps WalshNice jump from Pitto, taps down to Cripps, strong, to Walsh charging through, back to Cripps and defenders for wing clearance
Ed Cripps WalshPoor checking by Ed and possibly Cripps aids their clearance but it was nice work from Lycett
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap, good work by Cripps and Walsh but unlucky bounce prevents clearance, Port gather back of square and clear
Ed Walsh CrippsNice tap from Pitto to Cripps for a softer free than many not paid. Not allowed to play on stupidly.
Cripps Ed WalshPitto collects and bangs it forward
Quarter 2L 2 - 4 (6)
Ed Williams CrippsEd played loose on Amon and he got the clearance. Bad bounce for Williams and Pitto left Lycett unchecked who assisted.
Williams Ed WalshSome of these frees they pick out are utterly ridiculous when you see what isn't called. Soft free against Williams.
Walsh Kennedy EdStoppage from which the pull out a ruck infringement against Pitt. Port allowed the advantage
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)Levi nice tap down to Cripps who breaks away and pumps it i50
Ed Walsh KennedyPitto spoils the pass, opts for the mouse in the house run up to it off the ground for clearance
Ed Walsh CrippsInitial viewing looked like Cripps trying to do too much but it wasn't the case. Couldn't get the clean pass and they clear
Quarter 3W 5 - 4 (9)
Ed Cripps WalshWalsh on the move, Lycett wins tap but Walsh tackles Boak, Ed great smoother, Walsh wins contested ball for effective clearance forward square
Walsh Ed CrippsCripps is held for one of the most blatant holding frees you could give, is ignored and his man assists the clearance
Ed Cripps WalshLycett taps to Wines who is too strong and clears
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap but to Boak, if it was a set play it was brilliant or it could have been just fortunate, either way they clear
Williams Kennedy EdLycett jumps all over Pitto early. Pitto with the easy collect and dashes away Danger style for an i50. Credit to MK for bodywork on Wines
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)LC may have tapped it, either way odd bounce that Walsh is quickest to read, uses Gibbo to Cripps for running shot or deep i50
Ed Cripps WalshPitto tries to grab it out of the ruck, fumbles, they collect and clear it
Ed Kennedy WalshI had to include a gif of this. IMO our best centre clearance of the year, so far as ruck and mid being in sync. Beautiful tap from Pitto and flick from Kennedy. Wozers, where did that come from 😍
Ed Williams WalshNaturally we take Kennedy out of the centre for the rest of the game. What on earth was our rationale for that. This one, stoppage, Pitto free and we clear. Whatever.
Quarter 4W 4 - 1 (5)
Fogarty Walsh WilliamsPitto wins tap but it's straight down with no real intent, Fog strong tackle, Williams handballs wide, Walsh mops up and it gets back to Williams for effective wing clearance
Ed Walsh
Cripps (LC)
Levi wins the tap, fortunate bounce allows Cripps an easy give to Ed who bombs it i50
Ed Cripps WilliamsBad bounce that Pitt gets a hand to, Ed's handball intercepted, falls Cripps way who was legged and uses Williams for a scrubber i50
Ed Cripps WalshBounce recalled. Pitto taps it forward to where Wines ran unchecked (Ed was our free defensive side). Lack of cohesion as our mids weren't ready for it.
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto beaming from his goal. Falls to Gray who throws it to Ed for a bomb i50. Walsh pressured Gray but I haven't given him a contribution here
TotalW 16 - 12 (28)

Attended (clearance contributions)

Total /28Q1 /8Q2 /6Q3 /9Q4 /5
Ed24 (5)7(0)5(0)8(2)4(3)
Walsh23 (5)6(2)5(0)8(2)4(1)
Cripps21 (8)8(4)3(1)6(1)4(2)
Williams9 (2)1(0)3(0)3(0)2(2)
Kennedy6 (1)2(0)2(0)2(1)0
Fogarty1 (1)0001(1)

Most used:
Cripps Ed Walsh x 14 (L 6 - 8)
Cripps Ed Williams x 3 (W 2 - 1)
Walsh Ed Kennedy x 3 (W 2 - 1)

Observations
- Our best game in the centre clearances this year imo. There was clear intent to get on the move, more than previously. Walsh led the way but I liked we were mixing up our positioning throughout the game. Needed to be just a bit cleaner to improve effectiveness.

- Pitto's best game in the ruck as well. Was jumping high on occasions, getting involved for clearances or assisting much more than he had previously. For the most part tap work had purpose.

- Levi isn't pretty in the ruck, usually jumping too early but it puts their ruck off, he often gets his hand to it, and backs up play. I still think he would be far from a bad option as a short term starting ruck given his follow up work.

- Ed's clearance work is probably underrated. He is a competitor and does some really great work in tight. I don't think though he should ever pay loose from his man as he does on occasions.

- I liked Kennedy and Williams when they could get involved. It's close to clicking for Williams, while Kennedy could adequately replace Cripps or Ed if needed I feel.

- Cripps has copped criticism for trying to do it all but he isn't looking to do it alone in the centre clearances at least. He looks to give it off probably more than any other.

Watching just the clearances in isolation, I thought we looked quite strong and a level above Port, which I wasn't expecting. Leaves me feeling much more positive about our prospects going forward. Just a shame about the parts in between.

Here's that gif for some positivity:

View attachment 1107845

Thanks - for the write up - your conclusion is 100% what Lepeitch was saying yesterday on SEN - we win the ball in clearances and then lose it on the outside.

Our problem is :

Basic skill errors (cost us 5 goals, which is the game)

Players out of position / persisting with older players (Betts, Murphy)

Lack of desperation and run / follow up / 1 percenters.


I would put Jack Silvagni as head coach for "mentality and leadership".
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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Because SPS fumbles it more than he cleanly collects it. More than any other player he also frequently runs straight over it. Murphy shirks the contest more than any other player at Carlton - my most frequent observation is him running in and corralling - think he is worried about shoulders, body etc. Cuningham and Stocker would need to be in the team first.
hence the brackets
 

Pentatonic Flat Fifth

Team Captain
Suspended
Apr 18, 2021
469
778
AFL Club
Carlton
Categorically wrong. He was the cleanest player on the ground vs gc and easily the cleanest vs freo

He kicked it STRAIGHT to the opposition player directly in front of the goal. He over ran the ball on multiple occasions which was JUST USED in the highlights package by "sellers" to demontrate out "un-clean" we are with ball use. Literally two of the worst passages of play were by SPS and you claim he is the cleanest?

I get that you like him, and have some sort of affection for the bloke - but his performances down back have been abysmal and is the reason why every single football commentator on this forum and wider AFL community (outside yourself) say he is played out of position.

His stats prove it. The highlights prove it. The game replays prove it. General consensus proves it - you just "think" otherwise. Who knows why.
 

SkyhorseTamer

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2016
8,463
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He kicked it STRAIGHT to the opposition player directly in front of the goal. He over ran the ball on multiple occasions which was JUST USED in the highlights package by "sellers" to demontrate out "un-clean" we are with ball use. Literally two of the worst passages of play were by SPS and you claim he is the cleanest?

I get that you like him, and have some sort of affection for the bloke - but his performances down back have been abysmal and is the reason why every single football commentator on this forum and wider AFL community (outside yourself) say he is played out of position.

His stats prove it. The highlights prove it. The game replays prove it. General consensus proves it - you just "think" otherwise. Who knows why.
I pointed to 2 games you pointed to 1. He was horrendous vs Port. Never denied it, but he was brilliant and clean the two rounds before that. Was clean in the first 2 as well, despite playing a position that is just unsuited.
 

Sector 7G

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2009
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Here's that gif for some positivity:

View attachment 1107845
For all the positivity around the gif, it is still a no look EC snap around the corner. Somehow our wingman (Cotrell) needed to get involved rather than just following his man into the forward line or have a HB running through. That clearance gives our forwards less than 50% chance of winning the ball.

What was the final outcome? Did it result in a score?
 

Brackets

All Australian
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875
2,969
AFL Club
Carlton
For all the positivity around the gif, it is still a no look EC snap around the corner. Somehow our wingman (Cotrell) needed to get involved rather than just following his man into the forward line or have a HB running through. That clearance gives our forwards less than 50% chance of winning the ball.

What was the final outcome? Did it result in a score?
Betts I think (maybe Fogarty) marked it just outside the 50, but it was presumably more fortuitous than planned. I didn't watch beyond that.

We have of course had better clearances in terms of cleaner forward 50 entries, but it's not often we seem to have a set play with our taps beyond tap it down to Cripps.
 

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skadoosh

Club Legend
May 26, 2011
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For all the positivity around the gif, it is still a no look EC snap around the corner. Somehow our wingman (Cotrell) needed to get involved rather than just following his man into the forward line or have a HB running through. That clearance gives our forwards less than 50% chance of winning the ball.

What was the final outcome? Did it result in a score?
Agree entirely here. Our clearances, whether from the centre square or just a general stoppage generally are made up of 1 or 2 handballs max before there is a long kick forwards. A long kick forwards immediately becomes a 50/50 contest.

Our players need to learn how to operate smoothly as a team and play with cohesion. The good teams know how to transition the ball into their forward line without the opposition touching it. Where's the link-up play, the hard-running to make position, the ability to maintain possession through clean disposal from D50 into F50? This is sorely, sorely missed from our team -- and why we make it so hard for ourselves to be in a winning position against well-drilled teams.

No-one loves defensive running, but it's a pure necessity when the opposition has the ball. The cleaner & more efficient our disposal is, the more we're holding the ball, the less we're chasing the opposition around.
 

Sector 7G

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2009
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Agree entirely here. Our clearances, whether from the centre square or just a general stoppage generally are made up of 1 or 2 handballs max before there is a long kick forwards. A long kick forwards immediately becomes a 50/50 contest.

Our players need to learn how to operate smoothly as a team and play with cohesion. The good teams know how to transition the ball into their forward line without the opposition touching it. Where's the link-up play, the hard-running to make position, the ability to maintain possession through clean disposal from D50 into F50? This is sorely, sorely missed from our team -- and why we make it so hard for ourselves to be in a winning position against well-drilled teams.

No-one loves defensive running, but it's a pure necessity when the opposition has the ball. The cleaner & more efficient our disposal is, the more we're holding the ball, the less we're chasing the opposition around.
In thinking how the bulldogs would have handled this.

Kennedy would have been quicker with a throw to Curnow, who throws it over his head to Walsh, who throws it Kennedy running back to the camera side of the contest, who straightens up and kicks to a leading forward rather than a bomb inside 50. A grade centre clearance as opposed to the c grade one on the video despite the great tap work.
 

RobR

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He kicked it STRAIGHT to the opposition player directly in front of the goal. He over ran the ball on multiple occasions which was JUST USED in the highlights package by "sellers" to demontrate out "un-clean" we are with ball use. Literally two of the worst passages of play were by SPS and you claim he is the cleanest?

I get that you like him, and have some sort of affection for the bloke - but his performances down back have been abysmal and is the reason why every single football commentator on this forum and wider AFL community (outside yourself) say he is played out of position.

His stats prove it. The highlights prove it. The game replays prove it. General consensus proves it - you just "think" otherwise. Who knows why.
I suggest you look at the first 4 games again, form an opinion then listen to other peoples opinions and go from there, might be fun.
 

katmanblue

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Nov 27, 2016
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Because SPS fumbles it more than he cleanly collects it. More than any other player he also frequently runs straight over it. Murphy shirks the contest more than any other player at Carlton - my most frequent observation is him running in and corralling - think he is worried about shoulders, body etc. Cuningham and Stocker would need to be in the team first.
I think you are seeing what you want to re: SPS.

Made up your mind and looking for examples to back it up.

I also really dislike his constant use of the dinky kick. But it can be effective in releasing a player into space or even when retaining possession.

Having said that, there is a time and place for it, just needs to get balance right with taking the longer option on occasion.

As for ground ball, he was number 1 in the comp for defensive ground ball gets last year and I don't think much has changed. He did have a stinker on the weekend but he was good in other games this year.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
20,794
37,568
AFL Club
Carlton
Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1W 5 - 3 (8)
Ed Williams CrippsWalsh doesn't care if he's starting or not, still wins it to Cripps for a scrubby clearance
Walsh Kennedy Cripps (LC)Cripps breaks through but could have been a bit cleaner with handball to Walsh. He dishes it off to Doc who can only get a chip to forward square.
Ed Cripps Kennedy (LC)Dixon wins the tap, Cripps and Kennedy hard at it. I've already given my thoughts about the Port free awarded here.
Ed Cripps WalshNice jump from Pitto, taps down to Cripps, strong, to Walsh charging through, back to Cripps and defenders for wing clearance
Ed Cripps WalshPoor checking by Ed and possibly Cripps aids their clearance but it was nice work from Lycett
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap, good work by Cripps and Walsh but unlucky bounce prevents clearance, Port gather back of square and clear
Ed Walsh CrippsNice tap from Pitto to Cripps for a softer free than many not paid. Not allowed to play on stupidly.
Cripps Ed WalshPitto collects and bangs it forward
Quarter 2L 2 - 4 (6)
Ed Williams CrippsEd played loose on Amon and he got the clearance. Bad bounce for Williams and Pitto left Lycett unchecked who assisted.
Williams Ed WalshSome of these frees they pick out are utterly ridiculous when you see what isn't called. Soft free against Williams.
Walsh Kennedy EdStoppage from which the pull out a ruck infringement against Pitt. Port allowed the advantage
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)Levi nice tap down to Cripps who breaks away and pumps it i50
Ed Walsh KennedyPitto spoils the pass, opts for the mouse in the house run up to it off the ground for clearance
Ed Walsh CrippsInitial viewing looked like Cripps trying to do too much but it wasn't the case. Couldn't get the clean pass and they clear
Quarter 3W 5 - 4 (9)
Ed Cripps WalshWalsh on the move, Lycett wins tap but Walsh tackles Boak, Ed great smoother, Walsh wins contested ball for effective clearance forward square
Walsh Ed CrippsCripps is held for one of the most blatant holding frees you could give, is ignored and his man assists the clearance
Ed Cripps WalshLycett taps to Wines who is too strong and clears
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap but to Boak, if it was a set play it was brilliant or it could have been just fortunate, either way they clear
Williams Kennedy EdLycett jumps all over Pitto early. Pitto with the easy collect and dashes away Danger style for an i50. Credit to MK for bodywork on Wines
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)LC may have tapped it, either way odd bounce that Walsh is quickest to read, uses Gibbo to Cripps for running shot or deep i50
Ed Cripps WalshPitto tries to grab it out of the ruck, fumbles, they collect and clear it
Ed Kennedy WalshI had to include a gif of this. IMO our best centre clearance of the year, so far as ruck and mid being in sync. Beautiful tap from Pitto and flick from Kennedy. Wozers, where did that come from 😍
Ed Williams WalshNaturally we take Kennedy out of the centre for the rest of the game. What on earth was our rationale for that. This one, stoppage, Pitto free and we clear. Whatever.
Quarter 4W 4 - 1 (5)
Fogarty Walsh WilliamsPitto wins tap but it's straight down with no real intent, Fog strong tackle, Williams handballs wide, Walsh mops up and it gets back to Williams for effective wing clearance
Ed Walsh
Cripps (LC)
Levi wins the tap, fortunate bounce allows Cripps an easy give to Ed who bombs it i50
Ed Cripps WilliamsBad bounce that Pitt gets a hand to, Ed's handball intercepted, falls Cripps way who was legged and uses Williams for a scrubber i50
Ed Cripps WalshBounce recalled. Pitto taps it forward to where Wines ran unchecked (Ed was our free defensive side). Lack of cohesion as our mids weren't ready for it.
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto beaming from his goal. Falls to Gray who throws it to Ed for a bomb i50. Walsh pressured Gray but I haven't given him a contribution here
TotalW 16 - 12 (28)

Attended (clearance contributions)

Total /28Q1 /8Q2 /6Q3 /9Q4 /5
Ed24 (5)7(0)5(0)8(2)4(3)
Walsh23 (5)6(2)5(0)8(2)4(1)
Cripps21 (8)8(4)3(1)6(1)4(2)
Williams9 (2)1(0)3(0)3(0)2(2)
Kennedy6 (1)2(0)2(0)2(1)0
Fogarty1 (1)0001(1)

Most used:
Cripps Ed Walsh x 14 (L 6 - 8)
Cripps Ed Williams x 3 (W 2 - 1)
Walsh Ed Kennedy x 3 (W 2 - 1)

Observations
- Our best game in the centre clearances this year imo. There was clear intent to get on the move, more than previously. Walsh led the way but I liked we were mixing up our positioning throughout the game. Needed to be just a bit cleaner to improve effectiveness.

- Pitto's best game in the ruck as well. Was jumping high on occasions, getting involved for clearances or assisting much more than he had previously. For the most part tap work had purpose.

- Levi isn't pretty in the ruck, usually jumping too early but it puts their ruck off, he often gets his hand to it, and backs up play. I still think he would be far from a bad option as a short term starting ruck given his follow up work.

- Ed's clearance work is probably underrated. He is a competitor and does some really great work in tight. I don't think though he should ever pay loose from his man as he does on occasions.

- I liked Kennedy and Williams when they could get involved. It's close to clicking for Williams, while Kennedy could adequately replace Cripps or Ed if needed I feel.

- Cripps has copped criticism for trying to do it all but he isn't looking to do it alone in the centre clearances at least. He looks to give it off probably more than any other.

Watching just the clearances in isolation, I thought we looked quite strong and a level above Port, which I wasn't expecting. Leaves me feeling much more positive about our prospects going forward. Just a shame about the parts in between.

Here's that gif for some positivity:

View attachment 1107845
greta work again Brackets - thanks for posting.
 

SurreyBlue

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2002
9,286
11,588
AFL Club
Carlton
Centre bounce summary (Blues kicking ---->)

Quarter 1W 5 - 3 (8)
Ed Williams CrippsWalsh doesn't care if he's starting or not, still wins it to Cripps for a scrubby clearance
Walsh Kennedy Cripps (LC)Cripps breaks through but could have been a bit cleaner with handball to Walsh. He dishes it off to Doc who can only get a chip to forward square.
Ed Cripps Kennedy (LC)Dixon wins the tap, Cripps and Kennedy hard at it. I've already given my thoughts about the Port free awarded here.
Ed Cripps WalshNice jump from Pitto, taps down to Cripps, strong, to Walsh charging through, back to Cripps and defenders for wing clearance
Ed Cripps WalshPoor checking by Ed and possibly Cripps aids their clearance but it was nice work from Lycett
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap, good work by Cripps and Walsh but unlucky bounce prevents clearance, Port gather back of square and clear
Ed Walsh CrippsNice tap from Pitto to Cripps for a softer free than many not paid. Not allowed to play on stupidly.
Cripps Ed WalshPitto collects and bangs it forward
Quarter 2L 2 - 4 (6)
Ed Williams CrippsEd played loose on Amon and he got the clearance. Bad bounce for Williams and Pitto left Lycett unchecked who assisted.
Williams Ed WalshSome of these frees they pick out are utterly ridiculous when you see what isn't called. Soft free against Williams.
Walsh Kennedy EdStoppage from which the pull out a ruck infringement against Pitt. Port allowed the advantage
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)Levi nice tap down to Cripps who breaks away and pumps it i50
Ed Walsh KennedyPitto spoils the pass, opts for the mouse in the house run up to it off the ground for clearance
Ed Walsh CrippsInitial viewing looked like Cripps trying to do too much but it wasn't the case. Couldn't get the clean pass and they clear
Quarter 3W 5 - 4 (9)
Ed Cripps WalshWalsh on the move, Lycett wins tap but Walsh tackles Boak, Ed great smoother, Walsh wins contested ball for effective clearance forward square
Walsh Ed CrippsCripps is held for one of the most blatant holding frees you could give, is ignored and his man assists the clearance
Ed Cripps WalshLycett taps to Wines who is too strong and clears
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto wins tap but to Boak, if it was a set play it was brilliant or it could have been just fortunate, either way they clear
Williams Kennedy EdLycett jumps all over Pitto early. Pitto with the easy collect and dashes away Danger style for an i50. Credit to MK for bodywork on Wines
Williams Walsh Cripps (LC)LC may have tapped it, either way odd bounce that Walsh is quickest to read, uses Gibbo to Cripps for running shot or deep i50
Ed Cripps WalshPitto tries to grab it out of the ruck, fumbles, they collect and clear it
Ed Kennedy WalshI had to include a gif of this. IMO our best centre clearance of the year, so far as ruck and mid being in sync. Beautiful tap from Pitto and flick from Kennedy. Wozers, where did that come from 😍
Ed Williams WalshNaturally we take Kennedy out of the centre for the rest of the game. What on earth was our rationale for that. This one, stoppage, Pitto free and we clear. Whatever.
Quarter 4W 4 - 1 (5)
Fogarty Walsh WilliamsPitto wins tap but it's straight down with no real intent, Fog strong tackle, Williams handballs wide, Walsh mops up and it gets back to Williams for effective wing clearance
Ed Walsh
Cripps (LC)
Levi wins the tap, fortunate bounce allows Cripps an easy give to Ed who bombs it i50
Ed Cripps WilliamsBad bounce that Pitt gets a hand to, Ed's handball intercepted, falls Cripps way who was legged and uses Williams for a scrubber i50
Ed Cripps WalshBounce recalled. Pitto taps it forward to where Wines ran unchecked (Ed was our free defensive side). Lack of cohesion as our mids weren't ready for it.
Ed Walsh CrippsPitto beaming from his goal. Falls to Gray who throws it to Ed for a bomb i50. Walsh pressured Gray but I haven't given him a contribution here
TotalW 16 - 12 (28)

Attended (clearance contributions)

Total /28Q1 /8Q2 /6Q3 /9Q4 /5
Ed24 (5)7(0)5(0)8(2)4(3)
Walsh23 (5)6(2)5(0)8(2)4(1)
Cripps21 (8)8(4)3(1)6(1)4(2)
Williams9 (2)1(0)3(0)3(0)2(2)
Kennedy6 (1)2(0)2(0)2(1)0
Fogarty1 (1)0001(1)

Most used:
Cripps Ed Walsh x 14 (L 6 - 8)
Cripps Ed Williams x 3 (W 2 - 1)
Walsh Ed Kennedy x 3 (W 2 - 1)

Observations
- Our best game in the centre clearances this year imo. There was clear intent to get on the move, more than previously. Walsh led the way but I liked we were mixing up our positioning throughout the game. Needed to be just a bit cleaner to improve effectiveness.

- Pitto's best game in the ruck as well. Was jumping high on occasions, getting involved for clearances or assisting much more than he had previously. For the most part tap work had purpose.

- Levi isn't pretty in the ruck, usually jumping too early but it puts their ruck off, he often gets his hand to it, and backs up play. I still think he would be far from a bad option as a short term starting ruck given his follow up work.

- Ed's clearance work is probably underrated. He is a competitor and does some really great work in tight. I don't think though he should ever pay loose from his man as he does on occasions.

- I liked Kennedy and Williams when they could get involved. It's close to clicking for Williams, while Kennedy could adequately replace Cripps or Ed if needed I feel.

- Cripps has copped criticism for trying to do it all but he isn't looking to do it alone in the centre clearances at least. He looks to give it off probably more than any other.

Watching just the clearances in isolation, I thought we looked quite strong and a level above Port, which I wasn't expecting. Leaves me feeling much more positive about our prospects going forward. Just a shame about the parts in between.

Here's that gif for some positivity:

View attachment 1107845
Very underrated is Kennedy.
 
Nov 8, 2000
81,661
78,890
Head in the clouds
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Nottingham Forest
I listened to Rodney Eade on RSN and it made me realise something.

There are two issues we have with our contests:

1. We don't work hard enough to get to contests, and

2. When we do work hard enough, we get too many players drawn to the contest whereby we outnumber the opposition (i.e Auskick), but if the opposition get it out, we lose on the outside and if we get it out, we wildly try to clear it and invariably the opposition are better positioned outside the contest.

The point was made that Richmond won't have 6 players in a contest with 3 opposition players. They work hard to get there but they wait in layers around the contest, so they can receive the ball or make the tackle.

We are obviously not smart enough to understand positioning or we have no trust in each other.
 

katmanblue

Premium Platinum
Nov 27, 2016
10,856
18,179
AFL Club
Carlton
I listened to Rodney Eade on RSN and it made me realise something.

There are two issues we have with our contests:

1. We don't work hard enough to get to contests, and

2. When we do work hard enough, we get too many players drawn to the contest whereby we outnumber the opposition (i.e Auskick), but if the opposition get it out, we lose on the outside and if we get it out, we wildly try to clear it and invariably the opposition are better positioned outside the contest.

The point was made that Richmond won't have 6 players in a contest with 3 opposition players. They work hard to get there but they wait in layers around the contest, so they can receive the ball or make the tackle.

We are obviously not smart enough to understand positioning or we have no trust in each other.
Trust is the big one.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
20,794
37,568
AFL Club
Carlton
I listened to Rodney Eade on RSN and it made me realise something.

There are two issues we have with our contests:

1. We don't work hard enough to get to contests, and

2. When we do work hard enough, we get too many players drawn to the contest whereby we outnumber the opposition (i.e Auskick), but if the opposition get it out, we lose on the outside and if we get it out, we wildly try to clear it and invariably the opposition are better positioned outside the contest.

The point was made that Richmond won't have 6 players in a contest with 3 opposition players. They work hard to get there but they wait in layers around the contest, so they can receive the ball or make the tackle.

We are obviously not smart enough to understand positioning or we have no trust in each other.
It as been the case at Caarlton forever ODN - many have commented on same on here. This issue lies at the heart of qquestions surrounding midfield coaching at Carlton - but what makes it frustrating is that it isnt a hdden secret - it has been on display for years and years and explains why the side always looks 'rushed and panicky' - always.
 

SkyhorseTamer

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2016
8,463
21,281
AFL Club
Carlton
I listened to Rodney Eade on RSN and it made me realise something.

There are two issues we have with our contests:

1. We don't work hard enough to get to contests, and

2. When we do work hard enough, we get too many players drawn to the contest whereby we outnumber the opposition (i.e Auskick), but if the opposition get it out, we lose on the outside and if we get it out, we wildly try to clear it and invariably the opposition are better positioned outside the contest.

The point was made that Richmond won't have 6 players in a contest with 3 opposition players. They work hard to get there but they wait in layers around the contest, so they can receive the ball or make the tackle.

We are obviously not smart enough to understand positioning or we have no trust in each other.
These are the reasons people bring up Barker as the stoppage coach and stoppage structures in general.
 

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