Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Todman]

I would have a greater appreciation and understanding of a No-voter's claims of uncertainty about the Voice, if they could try and specify and pinpoint what this big spooky bogeyman is that they are so afraid of. Until then, I unfortunately will view No-voters as racist, ignorant, or selfish. It costs nothing to have a heart and vote Yes - maybe I am ignorant myself for being this naive. I do hold hope that a lot of undecided voters will vote Yes

To give them credit, all the No-voters I talked to over drinks definitely knew a lot more about the constitution than me (I know nothing about it, nor do I care) and at least demonstrated to me that they interested in being educated about it. When they asked me why I am voting Yes I answered 'It's designed to help indigenous Australians and even if it doesn't end up helping a majority, it's better than nothing and besides, if it helps one single person only, it's worth it'. Their retort was 'but don't you care about race being enshrined in the constitution???' and I answered 'Nope'. They couldn't fathom how I was apathetic towards how I, as a white man, was represented in the constitution. I think I care more about Taylor Swift and Barbie than I do about the constitution

Perhaps you should take some time to read the constitution, gives you something to do whilst you enjoy Taylor Swift's music.
The Australian Constitution is not a racist document. The only specific person is the Queen or her descendants. The queen appoints the Governor General on advice from the Prime Minister. All members of Parliament must be Australian citizens. They cannot have the option of being a dual citizenship.

The Constitution is not racist because it doesn't mention any of the races in it.

The Voice is racist.
"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?" .reconciliation.org.au/reconciliation/support-a-voice-to-parliament/

By recognising one race of Australians and no other race is the definition of Racism.

Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes for people based on race. Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action. It occurs when this prejudice – whether individual or institutional – is accompanied by the power to discriminate against, oppress or limit the rights of others. humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/what-racism.

So there you have it, anyone who is going to vote yes in the upcoming referendum is going to vote for the approval of constitutional racism.

 

[Number37]

There is a flaw in your argument. Neither gays, women, nor any other marginilised group have a separate Voice, let alone a voice permanently enshrined in the Constitution

Racial Discrimination Act 1975 protects all of them, including First Nations people.

Except when it doesn't...like when Howard suspended the RDA so that he could send the army into remote communities.


Which should tell you that First Nations people are not protected and should have additional representation.
I dunno, maybe something like the Voice?

 

[killtaker1993]

Perhaps you should take some time to read the constitution, gives you something to do whilst you enjoy Taylor Swift's music.
The Australian Constitution is not a racist document. The only specific person is the Queen or her descendants. The queen appoints the Governor General on advice from the Prime Minister. All members of Parliament must be Australian citizens. They cannot have the option of being a dual citizenship.

The Constitution is not racist because it doesn't mention any of the races in it.

The Voice is racist.
"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?" .reconciliation.org.au/reconciliation/support-a-voice-to-parliament/

By recognising one race of Australians and no other race is the definition of Racism.

Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes for people based on race. Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action. It occurs when this prejudice – whether individual or institutional – is accompanied by the power to discriminate against, oppress or limit the rights of others. humanrights.gov.au/our-work/race-discrimination/what-racism.

So there you have it, anyone who is going to vote yes in the upcoming referendum is going to vote for the approval of constitutional racism.

I am delighted to be called a 'constitutional racist' (i.e. presumably racist against all non-indigenous people) based on pedantic semantics and literary gymnastics being performed based on what is written on some piece of paper, rather than a real-world practical racist by voting against something designed to help and progress indigenous Australians which will cost me nothing and potentially help thousands of people.

If voting Yes and having a warm, caring and compassionate heart makes me a 'constitutional racist' then I am the biggest proudest constitutional racist in history

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

NSW Liberal leader Mark Speakman has come out in favour of a Yes vote, saying the constitutional fears raised by the No campaign have no grounding in legal reality.

Speakman was NSW Attorney-General for six years, and has a law degree from Cambridge.

Peter Dutton is an ex-copper.

 

[Gough]

NSW Liberal leader Mark Speakman has come out in favour of a Yes vote, saying the constitutional fears raised by the No campaign have no grounding in legal reality.

Speakman was NSW Attorney-General for six years, and has a law degree from Cambridge.

Peter Dutton is an ex-copper.

A no vote is saying yes to propping up Peter Dutton's political career for a bit longer, per Phil Coorey we know that's pretty much the only reason he's opposing the Voice. Play to the base be seen to chalk up a win, even Scummo would have been more subtle than this.

 

[Rob R]

Racial Discrimination Act 1975 protects all of them, including First Nations people.

Except when it doesn't...like when Howard suspended the RDA so that he could send the army into remote communities.


Which should tell you that First Nations people are not protected and should have additional representation.
I dunno, maybe something like the Voice?

On that topic, the voice could just be ignored like it can on anyother topic (much like the pointless ACT voice).

Would removing the race elements of section 51 be more effective so that all laws must apply equally regardless of race?

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Number37]

Would removing the race elements of section 51 be more effective so that all laws must apply equally regardless of race?

Technically, that is the job of the RDA.
There is also a standing committee that looks at ALL legislation to make sure it complies with things like the RDA, the Constitution, human rights etc etc.

 

[Rob R]

Technically, that is the job of the RDA.
There is also a standing committee that looks at ALL legislation to make sure it complies with things like the RDA, the Constitution, human rights etc etc.

Thanks, I was just thinking if we removed the enabling part of the constitution it would prevent future governments passing legislation to over ride the RDA.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Number37]

Thanks, I was just thinking if we removed the enabling part of the constitution it would prevent future governments passing legislation to over ride the RDA.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Section 8 of the RDA allows discrimination as long as it is a "special measure"- which is supposed to ONLY include positive discrimination AKA affirmative action.

 

[Magnum27]

Read a lot on here, i'm voting Yes as i think it is the right thing to do morally.

My main issue with the voice, i have serious doubts it will make any real difference, if it gets up, because we are putting our faith in politicians making the right decision, the only decision those clowns will make is what makes them look good and not what actually helps those in need.

 

[Gough]

You'd think the Voice help might provide for better education and health outcomes for Indigenous people that would prevent them becoming great grandparents before they hit 70.

 

[JyeDye]

Read a lot on here, i'm voting Yes as i think it is the right thing to do morally.

My main issue with the voice, i have serious doubts it will make any real difference, if it gets up, because we are putting our faith in politicians making the right decision, the only decision those clowns will make is what makes them look good and not what actually helps those in need.

This is pretty much everyone I know who's voting No's point. And I don't disagree really, I don't see this Voice system doing much, but I know whatever is going on right now is doing nothing.

 

[JyeDye]

You'd think the Voice help might provide for better education and health outcomes for Indigenous people that would prevent them becoming great grandparents before they hit 70.

This comes across as seriously bad taste.

 

[Blue Arrow]

A little sad (but not surprising) that Victoria looks like the only state this rubbish will get a majority vote.
Dan has trained his sheep well.

 

[South of the Yarra]

A little sad (but not surprising) that Victoria looks like the only state this rubbish will get a majority vote.
Dan has trained his sheep well.

And the rest of Australia has trained its racists well.

 

[Gethelred]

Read a lot on here, i'm voting Yes as i think it is the right thing to do morally.

My main issue with the voice, i have serious doubts it will make any real difference, if it gets up, because we are putting our faith in politicians making the right decision, the only decision those clowns will make is what makes them look good and not what actually helps those in need.

The problem I have with this post is that while treating politicians like crooks might result in less opportunity for them to burn you - you wind up voting for immobility, giving one party the lower house while dispersing power in the upper - you wind up hurting yourself and other people through that failure to believe in a better country or attempt for improvement.

Things are not as bad as they were, and things can get better than they are. Without idealism or that belief that improvement is possible, you condemn politics to be forever the refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[Gough]

This comes across as seriously bad taste.

Half those campaigning for No have spent a good portion of their career sneering at and trying to marginalise people who become young parents. Anne Henderson can barely show her face in Double Bay at the moment.

 

[Rob R]

A little sad (but not surprising) that Victoria looks like the only state this rubbish will get a majority vote.
Dan has trained his sheep well.

Seriously, you may not agree with it but it isn't a rubbish discussion. Something needs to be done even if it isn't the voice.

Victorians aren't Dan's sheep, they just dont have an option - Victorians know he is a corrupt and deceitful but unlike the Libs who are also corrupt and deceitful he actually works hard and has delivered a few things.

A radio host here in Canberra summed it up well, Dan is a smarter harder working version of Scummo - dishonest and a narciisst - just lucky he is taking on an opponent as good at the politics as the current WC team is at football.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Roby]

A little sad (but not surprising) that Victoria looks like the only state this rubbish will get a majority vote.
Dan has trained his sheep well.

Seriously, you're going with this line?

I don't think you... Actually.... You don't understand the meaning of the metaphor sheep, sheep.

 

[Not Important]

a disingenuous traitor, pure and simple.

 

[kalex6251]

What do we make of this

View attachment 1773410

Power and the glory: The ‘Forgiveness Cross’

The unveiling of an illuminated Christian monument near the remote community of Haasts Bluff, west of Alice Springs

www.themonthly.com.au

a modern take on the old colonial missionary model - this cr@p is troubling in the extreme

by-the-by .... be interesting to see how enmeshed pentecostalism (with media support) is with all these new talent shows that keep cropping up - a story to be told one day hopefully

 

[QuietB]

a disingenuous traitor, pure and simple.

If there is one thing I cannot stand - and the right side of politics and undisputed world champions at it - it is hypocrisy.

How the hell can this guy keep a straight face holding a completely contrary view than the one he held only 6 years ago? And he has not changed because the facts have changed or more information has come to light. He has done a complete 180deg turn purely on ideological grounds.

I honestly cannot stand how the right are behaving on this debate.

Still they have not presented one coherent argument on why the Voice should not happen.

All we have heard is they will "steal your backyard" or whitelivesmatters bullshit.

It is frankly disgusting.

 

[Magnum27]

This is pretty much everyone I know who's voting No's point. And I don't disagree really, I don't see this Voice system doing much, but I know whatever is going on right now is doing nothing.

That is why i'm voting yes, at least we something may happen, it's just my distrust of politicians on all sides, that it won't unless it benefits them.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What do we make of this

View attachment 1773410

Power and the glory: The ‘Forgiveness Cross’

The unveiling of an illuminated Christian monument near the remote community of Haasts Bluff, west of Alice Springs

www.themonthly.com.au

Weird hill to die on.

 

[Bombermania]

Read a lot on here, i'm voting Yes as i think it is the right thing to do morally.

My main issue with the voice, i have serious doubts it will make any real difference, if it gets up, because we are putting our faith in politicians making the right decision, the only decision those clowns will make is what makes them look good and not what actually helps those in need.

This is the only real question anyone should have with the voice, everything else is just nonsense.