Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Kyptastic]

I don't know why No voters think people consider them to be racists

No campaigner’s comments on Stan Grant, Lidia Thorpe labelled ‘disgusting’, ‘grotesque’

David Adler, who sits on the advisory board of top No outfit Advance, insists he was not trying to insult the prominent Indigenous pair.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Chief]

I don't know why No voters think people consider them to be racists

No campaigner’s comments on Stan Grant, Lidia Thorpe labelled ‘disgusting’, ‘grotesque’

David Adler, who sits on the advisory board of top No outfit Advance, insists he was not trying to insult the prominent Indigenous pair.

www.theage.com.au

“I asked a question; I haven’t made any accusations. I was given material and there are many people who have said that [Grant’s] complexion has changed,” Adler said.

“I am 100 per cent zero racism. I have Aboriginal friends, the most prominent being [leading No campaigner] Warren Mundine, and you’ll see photos of me with him.


What is wrong with this guy?

 

[kalex6251]

australias NOT a racist country you say ...... hmmmmmmmmmm

Zoom meetings for Indigenous voice volunteers ‘bombed’ by people yelling racist comments

Swastikas were also shown in what organisers say were shocking and targeted incidents

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chief]

“I asked a question; I haven’t made any accusations. I was given material and there are many people who have said that [Grant’s] complexion has changed,” Adler said.

“I am 100 per cent zero racism. I have Aboriginal friends, the most prominent being [leading No campaigner] Warren Mundine, and you’ll see photos of me with him.


What is wrong with this guy?

And why haven't his family and friends stepped in to walk him away from this? Kids? Spouse? Are none of them saying "dude shut up with the 'just asking questions' s**t"?

 

[evolved2]

Yes, we're a racist country because some Australians are racist.

 

[Chief]

Yes, we're a racist country because some Australians are racist.

That these people have positions of leadership is why.

 

[evolved2]

That these people have positions of leadership is why.

Even so, they're a very small minority position.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims we're a racist nation, especially when it comes from white people.

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Even so, they're a very small minority position.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims we're a racist nation, especially when it comes from white people.

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

It is far more than a small minority. There are many Australians who are racist. Whilst there are many many good people we are still a horribly racist country. I am skepticalof anyone who turns a blind eye to racism.

 

[Gough]

Even so, they're a very small minority position.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims we're a racist nation, especially when it comes from white people.

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

How can you say that? Not happy with trying to get a No vote over the line the people behind it are now going after Welcome To Country ceremonies under the cover of this campaign. Dutton's determination to use this referendum to delay his inevitable exit as a failed Liberal Party leader has been a parting gift to racists the nation over.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Oooh, very classy!

No campaigner’s comments on Stan Grant, Lidia Thorpe labelled ‘disgusting’, ‘grotesque’

David Adler, who sits on the advisory board of top No outfit Advance, insists he was not trying to insult the prominent Indigenous pair.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

In the melting pot of western Sydney, views on the Voice are as diverse as the population

This region could be crucial to the Voice to parliament either passing or failing – but many residents are still undecided.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Roby]

Why is there such a strong campaign for No? What do these people actually stand for?

Where were they the last the last ten years when this was proposed? Why didn't propose something before? Why are they coming out of the woodwork now?

 

[Chief]

Even so, they're a very small minority position.

Watch what happens in the referendum and we can see the proportion.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims we're a racist nation, especially when it comes from white people.

People can see the institutional racism, white or not.

It doesn't mean everyone is a violent racist.

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

In what way?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

The No campaign is very cringe, in a Maga type of way.

 

[JackOutback]

Even so, they're a very small minority position.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims we're a racist nation, especially when it comes from white people.

I think there's an element of cultural cringe at play.

The racist structures are baked in and people refuse to acknowledge or deal with it, that's what makes the country 'racist'. It's not overt, with people wearing hoods and chasing Aboriginal people down the streets (though the second part has happened within the past couple of years). We are a first world country with some Aboriginal people living in literal third world conditions and the government isn't solving it and the people are raising their hands as if there's nothing they can do about it. We have incarceration and poverty rates in metropolitan cities that are simply shameful. A country with racist institutions and structures is a racist country.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

It changed or maybe it was just "swept away" but in Kalgoorlie in the 90s you would go between Woolies and Coles and on the way there was a narrow bit of grass called "skinny park" where Indigenous Australians would all be passed out drunk in the middle of the day.

The scariest thing was people would just walk around them like it was nothing and they were invisible given how much of a regular thing it was.

Just so sad.

I heard they put Astroturf down out the front of the Kal hotel to stop the indigenous from sitting out the front and abusing patrons.

 

[checkraiseulite]

The racist structures are baked in and people refuse to acknowledge or deal with it, that's what makes the country 'racist'. It's not overt, with people wearing hoods and chasing Aboriginal people down the streets (though the second part has happened within the past couple of years). We are a first world country with some Aboriginal people living in literal third world conditions and the government isn't solving it and the people are raising their hands as if there's nothing they can do about it. We have incarceration and poverty rates in metropolitan cities that are simply shameful. A country with racist institutions and structures is a racist country.

how do you genuinely hope to fix this?

are there similar examples overseas that have faced these issues and solved or meaningfully improved this?

are there any non-racist countries out there? are they in any way comparable to australia?

 

[South of the Yarra]

I heard they put Astroturf down out the front of the Kal hotel to stop the indigenous from sitting out the front and abusing patrons.

We are willing to hear what we want to hear but are not prepared to listen to a voice.

 

[Sun Ra]

are there any non-racist countries out there? are they in any way comparable to australia?

Pretty sure that Australia pre 1788 wasn't a racist country ......... not comparable I suppose ?

 

[Festerz]

Excellent article from Don Watson on referendums. Free to read with email registration...




Let us for a moment walk in the shoes of those good citizens who think they might vote “No” in the Voice referendum. Not Bolt’s or Dutton’s – none of the Murdoch–LNP axis – but the footwear of humble, silent folk.

Imagine yourself not entirely unsympathetic to the struggles of Indigenous people, but thinking that no section of the citizenry should be granted an avenue to power that others lack. I know! But wait – the pounding of your progressive hearts be still! You’re in the shoes of others, and from where they stand the Voice can look unreasonable. Crippling mortgages and rents, rising energy prices, housing shortages, stagnant wages, gouging corporations. But does anyone heed their cries for help?

While the world grows more perilous each day, we talk about the Voice. Climate catastrophes, pandemics, dictators, unhinged billionaires and wars. Truth erodes, ignoramuses and cheats prosper and “superintelligent” machines, according to their inventors, threaten to destroy humanity before the climate, viruses or nuclear weapons get their turn. We dwell on the fringes of an ever more alien and unknowable reality, and fear there will be no future for our children. On none of these developments is our opinion required – but it is compulsory on the Voice.

The longer you look from this disaffected point of view the more it becomes clear that there is only one sensible way to go – vote “Yes”. Vote “Yes” to the Voice and be done with it. Get it off the table. Because if “No” wins, we can be sure the debate will not go away. There will be a few weeks of wailing and gnashing, gloom will descend on one half of the population and especially on the people whose grand idea it was to weave hope and despair into poetry. Meanwhile, much of the world will be confirmed in its opinion that we are racists, Anthony Albanese will look like the mug who gambled everything and lost, and Peter Dutton like the cat that swallowed the canary s**t.

And then it will be back. And it will keep coming back, until one day a Voice or a Treaty or something of the kind, will pass. And people will ask why they didn’t do it the first time. If you wish the Voice to hell – make sure you vote for it. Then maybe the debate will shift to, well, survival – one’s own and the planet’s, or something related to both of them, such as AUKUS.

 

[ElectricG]

The longer you look from this disaffected point of view the more it becomes clear that there is only one sensible way to go – vote “Yes”. Vote “Yes” to the Voice and be done with it. Get it off the table. Because if “No” wins, we can be sure the debate will not go away.

The reasons to vote yes are getting less and less compelling by the day. Vote yes out of nihilistic defeatism? I’m good.
Ridiculous article.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The reasons to vote yes are getting less and less compelling by the day. Vote yes out of nihilistic defeatism? I’m good.
Ridiculous article.

Wtf are you on about? The reasons have not changed.

 

[JackOutback]

how do you genuinely hope to fix this?

are there similar examples overseas that have faced these issues and solved or meaningfully improved this?

are there any non-racist countries out there? are they in any way comparable to australia?

The first and most important step is to genuinely accept the problem. Not just that Aboriginal people generally suffer from disadvantage, but that the disadvantage and inequality was built into the system and became entrenched. Too many people get defensive and refuse to acknowledge how our incredibly racist past has resulted in some legacy racist structures. They view it as some kind of personal attack on the present. They imagine we're now some kind of egalitarian society and therefore it's up to Aboriginal people to lift themselves up by their bootstraps. But only by owning the past will we ever get serious about changing it.

Something like the Voice should be seen as a no-brainer. A way to listen to Aboriginal people about the best way to improve the outcomes for Aboriginal people. Maybe it won't work, but there is absolutely no harm in trying, despite what the No camp would have you believe.

We're not gonna fix the problems in our lifetime, they are generational. But if we actually get serious about changing it and not just window dressing to make ourselves feel better, then we will have made a difference.

 

[ElectricG]

Wtf are you on about? The reasons have not changed.

I’m talking about the reason being put forward in that particular opinion piece.

 

[NSWCROW]

I do wonder how many will vote no purely for the fact it's compulsory as a " FU for making me take 20 min out of my saturday "