Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Dirty Bird]

When Labor came out with their plan, I felt it didn't go far enough, so would've gone No because I wanted more.

Then Libs came out and said if they defeat it, they'll run something again at a later date? Well, if you're just going to waste my time, I'll vote yes to save said time and view this as a compromise between what I want and what the Libs would push for.

The way this has all ran, I just don't care what happens. I'll probably just vote informal.

Maybe next time give me a republic vote.

 

[Roby]

I see a few people in our suburb displaying the Yes sign at their properties
But never do I see someone showing a Vote No sign.

Are they worried about the reaction or deep down embarrassed?

White supremacists these days like to operate behind closed doors. Looking like a Nazi in public doesn't look good from a personal point of view.

 

[nut]

Yes it is
For all the noble intents going to a referendum without having support of the Opposition is pointless.
It's terrible politics

Exactly … politics… the entire point of the voice is to take away politics … are you dense?

 

[Roby]

Worried about the reaction I would think. A lot of Yes sign in my area have been vandalised or had 'No' spray painted over them, which is just idiotic (as would it be if No signs were targeted the same way).

Again, see my post above.

They're not going to show they're white supremacists on their property, but are happy to vandalize someone else's, and do it in anonymity.

 

[Dirty Bird]

It’s a fair question.

Only 8 out of 44 referendums in Australia have got up.

A politician concerned about his political future and credibility wouldn’t bother would they?

A politician who believed in the idea would. And would surely use their political capital on winning a landslide victory to give it a shot knowing that was his/her best chance.

History shows Australian PMs who have been in power in losing referendums have not suffered politically. Current polling of Albanese v Dutton have shown this trend will continue. Dutton will have won the battle but lost the war.

Hopefully the next federal election is a landslide Labor win.

I actually am a swing voter between the Labor and Liberal point of views. But a landslide Labor could destroy the Liberal Party, and we then get a new party formed from Teal independents in between the 2. That would be better for this country and probably a truer indication on where the populace is.

The Liberals have gone too far right and it'll be the death of them. Hopefully whatever forms from it's ashes are more central and a party that might actually do good for this country.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Exactly … politics… the entire point of the voice is to take away politics … are you dense?

Dense?
The sad reality is that politics is the reason this referendum will be lost.

 

[Roby]

Interesting

I haven't seen any No posters

I wouldn't believe a word of the poster you're responding to.

 

[Festerz]

T

That Albo thought Dutton would play along is naive. He was caught up in the emotion of election night and in the Canberra bubble thought this was an issue dear to all Australians. Dutton an a-hole- he was always going to think short term gain

I'm sure if Albo had his time again he wouldn't have gone about it differently

He did not think Dutton would ‘play along’ so the basis of your statement is wrong.

Dutton was not Opposition Leader when Albanese made his election commitment to implement a Voice referendum in last years election campaign, nor when he repeated it in his election victory speech.

More misinformation

 

[Roby]

Pissweak Albo. If this body is as important as you say it is then how can not legislating it even be an option?

PM rules out legislating Voice if referendum fails

Why waste everyone's time?

 

[Cactus_]

Should have just abolished the Senate and made it a Council of Elders ~

 

[Roby]

There is a world beyond next Saturday.

A white supremacist world.

 

[Gavin Excell]

He did not think Dutton would ‘play along’ so the basis of your statement is wrong.

So if he didn't, why go to a referendum when it can't win?

 

[killtaker1993]

I'm looking forward to seeing the videos of polling booth shoving matches and verbal stoushes from around the country next Saturday - it will be like Jerry Springer

 

[Rob R]

I read an article the other day comparing the referendum to the gay marriage plebiscite
The argument put forward was that the plebiscite was successful because a lot of Australians knew personally of gay people and were sympathetic. Difference here being that lot of Australians don't personally know indigenous folk and therefore are disconnected.
There's probably some truth to this

Probably some truth but this is much harder as it changes the constitution and creates an organisation that will engage with parliament.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sansian]

OMG… google it

Nice response.

I haev googled it and I have read the statement of the heart and the I have read the Yes/No pamphlet.

Still doesn't answer my question

 

[nut]

Dense?
The sad reality is that politics is the reason this referendum will be lost.

And that’s the fault of those who support the voice? … right.

The fact that it’s been used as a political football and an “Albo’s” voice by the LNP, Skynews, Murdoch, Hanson, nationals, …

And dickheads have been sucked into this .. like you … says it all.


Australia is a dumb country …. Sucked in by institutions working against the greater good of the population.

 

[Rob R]

Xi? You think China is a communist country?

Not at all, I was highlighting that those evil bastards claim to be communist to gain power but are really just dictators.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[nut]

Nice response.

I haev googled it and I have read the statement of the heart and the I have read the Yes/No pamphlet.

Still doesn't answer my question

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I want to vote yes, but I am scared that the really good intent of this will be taken, bastardised and used in a way that it is not intedned. I know this could be just fear mungering from the No campaign.

Apparently there are constitutional lawyers and ex judges that say the scope is too wide etc. Surely they have experience and know what is involved.

The thing that worries me is that the voice starts commenting on issues that don't actually effect first peoples, but gets twisted to say it does and when it doesn't get accepted, straight to the high court and everything is cauight up.

Can this actually happen or is it just scare mongering again?

I don't see the point. They can weigh in against the environment for example, but there are already huge numbers of people doing that.
"Hey GOV....the waiting time for ambulances is too long, they need more resources" "Yeah yeah, someone already told us that".

Think about it, if you have an issue at local level, you go and see your local MP. If he thinks it is big enough, or effects enough people he may take it further, especially if he has heard the same thing from a lot of constituents. There is a chance it ends up at parliament.

The Voice gives indigenous Australians a chance to voice their specific issues without being filtered out amongst all the other things the local MP hears.

So yes , their ability to be heard at parliament would be disproportionate to the general population, but perhaps not disproportionate to their importance and status. So i don't have a problem with it.

 

[nut]

Not at all, I was highlighting that those evil bastards claim to be communist to gain power but are really just dictators.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I’m not sure bringing more people out of poverty than anyone in history makes Xi an evil bastard.

 

[Saint Shags]

I want to vote yes, but I am scared that the really good intent of this will be taken, bastardised and used in a way that it is not intedned. I know this could be just fear mungering from the No campaign.

Apparently there are constitutional lawyers and ex judges that say the scope is too wide etc. Surely they have experience and know what is involved.

The thing that worries me is that the voice starts commenting on issues that don't actually effect first peoples, but gets twisted to say it does and when it doesn't get accepted, straight to the high court and everything is cauight up.

Can this actually happen or is it just scare mongering again?

Voice 'is not constitutionally risky', say 71 law academics in open letter to Australian public

Dozens of constitutional and public law teachers from across the country have signed a letter in a bid to tackle "misunderstandings and misconceptions" about the Voice to Parliament.

www.abc.net.au

I'd take the views of these people. They know their stuff.

 

[Gavin Excell]

And that’s the fault of those who support the voice? … right.

The fact that it’s been used as a political football and an “Albo’s” voice by the LNP, Skynews, Murdoch, Hanson, nationals, …

And dickheads have been sucked into this .. like you … says it all.


Australia is a dumb country …. Sucked in by institutions working against the greater good of the population.

s**t mate calling people dickheads, dense jeezus. Sucked in no less.

 

[Rob R]

I’m not sure bringing more people out of poverty than anyone in history makes Xi an evil bastard.

Can discuss in other forum but most of the reforms that brought people out of poverty were initiated by his predecessors (which he is undoing) and his treatment of minority groups, suppression of Hong Kong, murder of Indian soldiers, seizure of Bhutanese and Philippine territor, threats to kill millions of Taiwanese if they announce what everyone knows that they are an independent nation suggest he is evil (so is Trump in different ways)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[nut]

s**t mate calling people dickheads, dense jeezus. Sucked in no less.

Like I said Australia is a dumb country

 

[Gavin Excell]

Like I said Australia is a dumb country

Yep blame the electorate. Lazy stuff