Richmond. The rebuild to the 2017 premiership (Review on 2016-2017)

[BEEG]

Missing the 2 most important players Delidio and Maric bottom 6 are trash that's the issue.

 

[Scotland]

LOL MaddAdam, thread is about Richmond - not North. Your own band of alleged A-graders will get their turn when North inevitably fall short again.

 

[doppleganger]

Tigers gun players haven't improved since 2013, and not enough kids have improved.

 

[MaddAdam]

Martin is A grade. You don't know football.
Just about the only player along with Rance who influences games every week

Martin is A-grade when he's on, goes missing way too often.

That said, I think the coach uses him poorly, or certainly doesn't get the best out of him.

And to be fair to Dusty, his dad getting deported can't be helping his concentration.

 

[Mattdougie]

C

The one that really hurts them is Conca.

They need a brutish contested ball and tackling machine, who also has good skills and can take a mark, kjick a goal. Basically a top shelf inside mid. Cunnington/Cripps types come to mind.

To get one you usually have to spend a high pick, or get lucky with F/S. Conca was meant to be that high quality inside mid but hasn't come on.

They know this - it was savagely exposed in the Elim Final by Cunners/Ziebell/Swallow - but as someone said above, they thought they could just recruit big inside midfielders like Townsent and Moore and that would magically fix it.

The key is they need to be really good inside midfielders, with an elite trait (Cunnington creative handball vision, Cripps his ability to get his arms loose and handball and keep the play going) and a secondary really good trait (usually being able to snag a goal or two, be moved forward if required/change things up) to go with being top shelf at the inside mid basics.

Couldawouldshoulda on drafing and Conca has had inury issues, but that was a pick they needed to nail for that role and could really have made a difference.

Thing is coaches value those guys so highly they move heaven and earth to keep them, so they are rarely available for trade.

Free agency might help but its hard to think of someone coming up they could realistically get.

And those guys sometimes, not always, take a bit of time to transition to senior footy, usually about getting used to the pace of the game and putting on the size and fitness hey need at the highest level.

Cunnington elite?????

Come on man

 

[MaddAdam]

LOL MaddAdam, thread is about Richmond - not North. Your own band of alleged A-graders will get their turn when North inevitably fall short again.

You're the one turning it about North with your pretty second rate trolling.

I was talking about inside midfielders, of which Richmond clearly lack. That's why I talked about guys like Conca and Cripps.

 

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

Not taking the piss at all but who is closer to a flag right now the tigers or blues?

 

[Seedsfan]

They are terrible even the Pies managed to beat them

 

[Dan]

No!!!! Everything is just fine the way it is.

Go Tigers

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Missing the 2 most important players Delidio and Maric bottom 6 are trash that's the issue.

Maric is naitanui's teaser pony

 

[Scotland]

You're the one turning it about North with your pretty second rate trolling.

I was talking about inside midfielders, of which Richmond clearly lack. That's why I talked about guys like Conca and Cripps.

Turn it up. In a post about Richmond you managed to bring Cunnington up twice and your inside mid trio which includes Cunnington once.

Cunnington is - as you might say - 'very good, not quite as good as North supporters believe'.

Cunnington/Ziebell/Swallow were shown up by Priddis, Shuey etc. last year and Kennedy, Parker etc. the year before. Find a better basis for comparison.

Richmond need Cotchin, Martin and Deledio on the ball and firing to be a good side. Without that, they fall away fast. They need a "beast mode" player who can play a big quarter here and and swing momentum for them. Not another accumulator.

 

[SSSSSS]

Hes was a midfielder when drafted

Well he's definitely not a midfielder right now.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

People expected them to win tonight?

no, but to compete just a little...

 

[TiggerMan22]

Hahah mate I don't barrack for Richmond so relax.

If these 4 blokes are SOOOOOO good why do the Tigers constantly fail?

These blokes arnt kids they should be mature enough to carry the team if they are so good.

And using AA as a measure of who is hmgood and bad is moronic. The put the flavours of the year in and play blokes out of position to fit then in. How many Brownlow winners have not been in the AA the year they win?

And yes you are the biased one coz no one outside a tiger fan wild rate Deledio that high.

Because theres 22 players that play each game.
Doesnt matter how good the top 4 are if they rest aren't playing well.

No I dont. I use it as an example to show if a player is good. I dont say players are bad ased of AA.

K. How many mids averaged more than 1.5 goals a game last year then?
Because my list is at 2. Ablett and Deledio.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

No need to rebuild, they aren't particularly top heavy age wise. They were going well up until about 2-3 years ago and when the media jumped on board it's like they assumed they were closer than reality. Just get back to trimming the fat and they'll be able to stay up there until the kids are actually ready.

 

[Mattdougie]

Because theres 22 players that play each game.
Doesnt matter how good the top 4 are if they rest aren't playing well.

No I dont. I use it as an example to show if a player is good. I dont say players are bad ased of AA.

K. How many mids averaged more than 1.5 goals a game last year then?
Because my list is at 2. Ablett and Deledio.

Wingard
Higgins
Rioli
And u could argue Bruest and Walters spend some time in midfield

Mid/fors in front of Deledio easy.

Ablett
Maybe
Fyfe
Wingard
Rioli
Parker
Grey

And that's off the top of my head.

Cheap stats across half back arnt real stats(ask Cotchin)

 

[kid_a]

Martin is A-grade when he's on, goes missing way too often.

That said, I think the coach uses him poorly, or certainly doesn't get the best out of him.

And to be fair to Dusty, his dad getting deported can't be helping his concentration.

Agree with this, dusty is an a grader, and even tonight nobody could physically stop him, I was at subi and noticed whenever he got it he barely ever put the pull into a position where it was turned over.

 

[xown]

Rance is the best defender. Jack is top 5 forwards. Deledio is top 3 forward mids. Dusty is harder to rate since there are so many mids, but 7th in the Brownlow shows something. 1 vote behind Danger.

All that talent so few results huh

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Multiple issues at tiger land.

they need to make some pretty ballsy trades but they have so few great trade bait players to attract top talent and can't afford to be seen as "losing" a trade by losing a strong player for a slightly weaker player, even if it makes the list stronger overall and they aren't s**t enough to have good draft picks which is why they took chris yarran.

the team keeps underperforming meaning they have a harder time attracting free agents and so they must offer more money than better performing teams or developing teams in order to snare talent

but at the same time they have so few A listers that they have to offer them more than they are worth in order to keep them and this flows down the list meaning you B+ talent is almost non existent so your left touting that tyrone vickery has very white teeth, in his player bio.

it's a cycle that needs to broken, the team needs to be prepared to sacrifice some good talent in order to expand the middle list. right now you've got about 5-6 players that are great, but you hit the "fringe player" tag at most other clubs by the time you ink your top ten current richmond players.

i can't see the club being willing to take some big risks in order to develop the side further, it's too conservative.

and then there's coaching issues.

 

[TiggerMan22]

All that talent so few results huh

No. Some of the talent.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

They're like hawthorn from 2004

Whilst the core of the team is there, there's too many friends now players who are party boys

 

[Scotland]

K. How many mids averaged more than 1.5 goals a game last year then?
Because my list is at 2. Ablett and Deledio.

I think you massively overrate the importance of 'goalkicking mids'. Deledio averaged 21.6 touches and 1.5 goals a game last year to go with a couple of tackles, clearances and inside 50s. Besides, he's averaged 1.5 goals a game in one season out of 11. Career wise he averages 0.75 goals a game...

Mark LeCras was 18.3 and 1.9 with similar numbers for the others. Stevie J was 20.6 and 1.5 and Geelong let him go. Steve Motlop 22 and 1.3. Higgins 19.5 and 1.6. Gray 26.3 and 1.2 after 24.9 and 1.7 the year before. Wingard was 19.2 and 2.4. Are these guys high possession forwards or goal kicking mids?

The real goal kicking mids are guys like Dangerfield, Gray, Ablett etc. who boss all the things that midfielders do and also hit the scoreboard.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Wingard
Higgins
Rioli
And u could argue Bruest and Walters spend some time in midfield

Mid/fors in front of Deledio easy.

Ablett
Maybe
Fyfe
Wingard
Rioli
Parker
Grey

And that's off the top of my head.

Cheap stats across half back arnt real stats(ask Cotchin)

Forward, forward, forward.

Yeh lids love those cheap half back goals, inside 50s and goal assist. Lmao.

Btw resting forward doesn't make you a mid/forward.
You have to spend considerable time there.

Deledio had most marks, goals and score assists from mid forwards last year.

 

[Scotland]

LOL mid forwards. Footy isn't Dream Team. Deledio is well down on disposals, clearances, tackles etc. compared to other mids and down on goals compared to other forwards.

 

[TiggerMan22]

I think you massively overrate the importance of 'goalkicking mids'. Deledio averaged 21.6 touches and 1.5 goals a game last year to go with a couple of tackles, clearances and inside 50s. Besides, he's averaged 1.5 goals a game in one season out of 11. Career wise he averages 0.75 goals a game...

Mark LeCras was 18.3 and 1.9 with similar numbers for the others. Stevie J was 20.6 and 1.5 and Geelong let him go. Steve Motlop 22 and 1.3. Higgins 19.5 and 1.6. Gray 26.3 and 1.2 after 24.9 and 1.7 the year before. Wingard was 19.2 and 2.4. Are these guys high possession forwards or goal kicking mids?

The real goal kicking mids are guys like Dangerfield, Gray, Ablett etc. who boss all the things that midfielders do and also hit the scoreboard.

Yeh because he played pure midfield some years, half back line the others. Last year was the first year he moved into the forward role. And killed it.
He is more than just disposals and goals. He creates.
After he came back from injury only Eagles Kennedy had more score involvements.
So yeh he's pretty damaging.