Opinion Round 12 Changes vs. Adelaide

[bloke_]

Mayne's pressure was relentless on the weekend. Think he is finally over his ankle. Dropping him now is lunacy.

He had 5 tackles, which I admit is pretty good, but even Fyfe had 6 and he had a dodgy ankle. Barlow and Duff had 8. I saw a lot of times that he could (and normally would have) stuck a tackle but he just waved his arms around. Still looks tentative to me

 

[slicedndiced]

If we are honest we would gladly bag any west coast minion whether we have good cause or not.

sigh

Ok..from Carlton, Essendon, Port Adelaide, The Gold Coast. Jeeeeezusss.

He is clearly too slim to win much of the ball on the inside, but that's where I think he will end up playing most of his footy. Its true he may not end up being a superstar but with the salary cap you need a couple of role players for every star. Look at GWS and Gold Coast if you want to see development in players, clear improvement from players in both teams. Neither are superpowers yet but would it surprise you if their kids end up becoming the next multiple premiership dynasties? But the majority of their lists spent their first years looking miles away from AFL level.

The highlighted is exactly the excuse making I am referring to.

The rest is not even relevant.

So he doesn't get the ball enough just yet at AFL level, well he is at WAFL level. He doesn't carve teams up with his kicking. But he makes enough good kicks that if he continues to improve he could be a good AFL level player. He could even be a star yet. He's still learning where to run, and needs some maturity before he starts hitting the hardest kicks. Look at MJ, 5 years ago would you have expected him to be our most important rebounding defender, and probably the best in the competition at his position.

More excuses.

MJ, 5 years ago, was a victim of poor coaching.

My kelpie could see his quality when played in the correct position.

 

[Kenny_01]

He had 5 tackles, which I admit is pretty good, but even Fyfe had 6 and he had a dodgy ankle. Barlow and Duff had 8. I saw a lot of times that he could (and normally would have) stuck a tackle but he just waved his arms around. Still looks tentative to me

Tackle numbers are meaningless. A lot of the times when we are at our defensive best we don't lay that many tackles. The opposition will often handball and handball and handball and then either turned over or a kick to our defensive zone. Mayne won't get stats for a lot of his work.

Our defenders would always get more tackles; you cannot compare Duffield to Mayne. They are in different stratospheres when it comes to work-rate.

Mayne's pressure has been top class last 2 games and the goals will come eventually.

 

[bloke_]

Tackle numbers are meaningless. A lot of the times when we are at our defensive best we don't lay that many tackles. The opposition will often handball and handball and handball and then either turned over or a kick to our defensive zone. Mayne won't get stats for a lot of his work.

Our defenders would always get more tackles; you cannot compare Duffield to Mayne. They are in different stratospheres when it comes to work-rate.

Mayne's pressure has been top class last 2 games and the goals will come eventually.

They'd better

 

[Dockernut]

While we're on the Sheridan topic, I think this would be an opportune moment to mention the cha-grin that is going on with the mob up the road, after last night's embarrassment. I ran with three Eagles supporters this arvo who were adamant that the cure to their ills was 'throwing a truckload of money at Fyfe'. After reminding them that he's not a free agent, we discussed realistic trades. They threw Darling on the table. I said, 'yeah ok, and what else?' With offers at a stalemate, I opted to preserve the friendships. Anyway, with all their talk (whining) of how they desperately needed a line-breaking mid with an accurate raking kick, I thought longingly about Hilly and how great he is compared to the other two numpties taken before him in his draft. Then I thought about Sherro and how he's effectively 'Hill-Lite'. By that I mean he has pace (but I've seldom seen him use it), he is a very accurate kick (as far as I've seen at training), and he's a decent enough mark and set shot for goal (as someone pointed out earlier). Also he kind of looks a bit like Hilly. So, I think we should offer the Weags a trade for a young up and coming member of our blue chip midfield for say, I dunno, a Fraser McInness or another decent developing tall of theirs (I care so little about them I struggle to name any more) or someone better, given their desperation.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm hoping that we can exploit their pain for our advantage come season's end.

 

[StingBitten]

Mayne's pressure was relentless on the weekend. Think he is finally over his ankle. Dropping him now is lunacy.

Exactly. Slot him into De Boer's spot which opens up a forward vacancy.

Come on down Sylvia and Bradley.

 

[bloke_]

While we're on the Sheridan topic, I think this would be an opportune moment to mention the cha-grin that is going on with the mob up the road, after last night's embarrassment. I ran with three Eagles supporters this arvo who were adamant that the cure to their ills was 'throwing a truckload of money at Fyfe'. After reminding them that he's not a free agent, we discussed realistic trades. They threw Darling on the table. I said, 'yeah ok, and what else?' With offers at a stalemate, I opted to preserve the friendships. Anyway, with all their talk (whining) of how they desperately needed a line-breaking mid with an accurate raking kick, I thought longingly about Hilly and how great he is compared to the other two numpties taken before him in his draft. Then I thought about Sherro and how he's effectively 'Hill-Lite'. By that I mean he has pace (but I've seldom seen him use it), he is a very accurate kick (as far as I've seen at training), and he's a decent enough mark and set shot for goal (as someone pointed out earlier). Also he kind of looks a bit like Hilly. So, I think we should offer the Weags a trade for a young up and coming member of our blue chip midfield for say, I dunno, a Fraser McInness or another decent developing tall of theirs (I care so little about them I struggle to name any more) or someone better, given their desperation.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm hoping that we can exploit their pain for our advantage come season's end.

Maybe College/Sinclair. I think they're a little further developed. I actually like the idea. Don't see Sherro as being one of our future guns - like Lachie or Sutty. The only thing that worries me is the possibility that he becomes an absolute jet and we regret it in a few years.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

I'll get reamed again, but he is vanilla in every sense.

You keep saying that, but you must know that vanilla is the finest of the flavours.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Dunno if anyone has said this, but I think Mayne should be dropped. He's been woeful all year, needs to go to Peel to get his game back. Even his tackling pressure isn't what it used to be.

Somebody said it already, but that guy probably didn't know what he was talking about either.

 

[sherrif]

I need to qualify that bet before accepting it.

150 games for Fremantle?

If so, I accept. Why? Because I don't think that his heart is truly here.

My criticism of him, no doubt, is equally inflamed by the never-ending excuse making for him on this board. If he was from the slime, for example, most of us would gleefully label him as a marshmellow that offered nothing. So bias, imo, is definitely in play here.

You yourself have only highlighted WAFL form. And yep, I've seen him do some nice things too, despite what I may project here. My point is that I want to see that replicated in the AFL on a far more consistent basis.

I'm not seeing it at all.

In my view an excuse is different to a' reason.'The main difference is a reason is a view that has legitimate rationale behind it.The reason why Zac Clarke did not play straight away for us was because he was around 81kgs when drafted and he wasn't physically ready. Likewise Polec (22 in 2014) from Port failed to dominate afl from the get-go because he was neither fit or strong enough in his first three years on an afl list. It is unreasonable to expect a skinny twenty year old drafted outside the first five picks to dominate at afl level. Only a handful of elite talent in every draft do that. Expecting Sheridan to show you more at afl level is actually pretty unreasonable. Ive seen Sherro train to the point of passing out at training over summer. Im really confident that he is both really motivated and really committed to the Freo cause. The reason why I highlight is WAFL form is that it shows what he is capable of at a lower level, which if he continues to develop will translate to afl level. Right now he is an elite runner for his age. Hopefully in three years time he will be an elite runner for an afl player, but it takes time. Sutcliffe is 18months older than Sherro. He is now playing consistent football at afl level. But, if you go back even a season and a bit (when he was Sherro's current age) his form at WAFl level (where he struggled to win more than twenty two possessions a game) compares unfavouably to the form Sherro has displayed in 2014 at state league level.

Ill gladly take the sportsmen bet that he will play 150games for freo. If he is traded, retires or is delisted before he plays 150 games I will come on the Freo Board and post "You were right and I was wrong'.

 

[hotchips81]

In my view an excuse is different to a' reason.'The main difference is a reason is a view that has legitimate rationale behind it.The reason why Zac Clarke did not straight away for us was because he was around 81kgs when drafted and he wasn't physically ready. Likewise Polec (22 in 2014) from Port failed to dominate afl from the get-go because he was neither fit or strong enough in his first three years on an afl list. It is unreasonable to expect a skinny twenty year old to dominate at afl level. Only a handful of elite talent in every draft do that. Expecting Sheridan to show you more at afl level is actually pretty unreasonable. Ive seen Sherro train to the point of passing out at training over summer. Im really confident that he is both really motivated and really committed to the Freo cause. The reason why I highlight is WAFL form is that it shows what he is capable of at a lower level, which if he continues to develop will translate to afl level. Right now he is an elite runner for his age. Hopefully in three years time he will be an elite runner for an afl player, but it takes time.

Ill gladly take the sportsmen bet that he will play 150games for freo. If he is traded, retires or is delisted before he plays 150 games I will come on the Freo Board and post "You were right and I was wrong'.

Well said, few crew around here are very hard on a bloke busting his gut trying to cement his spot in one of the best midfields in the comp. Hasn't exactly set the world on fire but most definately something to work with and I'll be more than happy to see him take his place again this weekend.

 

[slicedndiced]

It is unreasonable to expect a skinny twenty year old drafted outside the first five picks to dominate at afl level.

I appreciate all that you say. However, I have been infinitely clear that I don't expect him to dominate at all. Far from it.

Ill gladly take the sportsmen bet that he will play 150games for freo. If he is traded, retires or is delisted before he plays 150 games I will come on the Freo Board and post "You were right and I was wrong'.

Done.

 

[Paracleet]

No, I don't want to shoot him, nor do I want to delist him. However a good kick up the arse would be handy.

The comparison was made with Hill earlier in the thread, and even though Stephen was shirking some contests and not dominating a game at all at the same stage, blind Freddy could see that he had abundant talent. Mundy was the same. You got glimpses of undoubted talent. I can't comment on Mitchell, but I would be highly surprised if it wasn't the same.

I'm just waiting for something, anything, from Sheridan and Crozier to translate good WAFL form to AFL form. I'm not expecting a miracle, but what I have seen is below par and extremely disappointing.

I challenge anyone to highlight a passage of play at AFL level where an independent judge would say, "holy shit, that Sheridan kid is good".

We have seen it from Simpson already, and plenty of other younger kids who were selected at similar stages of the draft by other clubs. Yet not a thing, not a single shot fired by Sheridan at all.

Yet all we get here are excuses.

Easy, when Hill kicked the sealer in the Qualifying final against Geelong last year one of our players makes a extended and powerful gut run off halfback which enabled him to be there to force the defender to have to choose between guarding space and closing Hill down. He then dropped in to sheppard Hill's chaser. It might not be a banana on the run from 50 on the boundary but it was damn good footy in a high pressure situation.
He may not be your contested footy cup of tea but he has good skills, a big tank and most importantly knows when to get on his bike. I hope both he and Crozier turn out to be better than average players for someone taken around their position in the draft, at the moment to me from what I have seen it looks like they will both have solid careers. Thats not the same as being below par.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

So if Sheridan is traded and goes on to win a Brownlow for his new club, Bushie still gets to call him vanilla? Seems odd.

 

[Paracleet]

So if Sheridan is traded and goes on to win a Brownlow for his new club, Bushie still gets to call him vanilla? Seems odd.

Seems like setting yourself up to fail: 150 is allot of games. Anyone picked after the first 6 to 10 picks has done well to crack 100. Afterall if the kids ends up playing 130 games or something he would have played more than probably 90% of the players to ever pull on a boot in the AFL/VFL, but he'd still lose.

 

[sherrif]

I appreciate all that you say. However, I have been infinitely clear that I don't expect him to dominate at all. Far from it.




Done.

'Dominate' was the wrong choice of word by me. I meant something like 'contribute regularly at a consistent level of play at afl level. Eg Hill;s first year.

 

[slicedndiced]

Easy, when Hill kicked the sealer in the Qualifying final against Geelong last year one of our players makes a extended and powerful gut run off halfback which enabled him to be there to force the defender to have to choose between guarding space and closing Hill down. He then dropped in to sheppard Hill's chaser. It might not be a banana on the run from 50 on the boundary but it was damn good footy in a high pressure situation.
He may not be your contested footy cup of tea but he has good skills, a big tank and most importantly knows when to get on his bike. I hope both he and Crozier turn out to be better than average players for someone taken around their position in the draft, at the moment to me from what I have seen it looks like they will both have solid careers. Thats not the same as being below par.

Steady up. That passage of play, and his part in it, is expected of any decent footballer as part of a team. That is hardly showcasing individual football ability.

You blokes are grasping at straws.

So if Sheridan is traded and goes on to win a Brownlow for his new club, Bushie still gets to call him vanilla? Seems odd.

If he wins a Charlie, I will come and re-tile your bathroom in a pink tu-tu and do the job properly!! Feel free to post the pics.

 

[slicedndiced]

'Dominate' was the wrong choice of word by me. I meant something like 'contribute regularly at a consistent level of play at afl level. Eg Hill;s first year.

Understood.

This isn't Sherro's first year though.

 

[strobe00]

Maybe College/Sinclair. I think they're a little further developed. I actually like the idea. Don't see Sherro as being one of our future guns - like Lachie or Sutty. The only thing that worries me is the possibility that he becomes an absolute jet and we regret it in a few years.

Shero is a vic metro boy. If he doesn't stay here he'll be going home.

Trading him to the weags just ain't gonna happen. Some chance of a trade to a vic team. Unlikely elsewhere. No chance to the slime, for mine.

 

[Alfonz]

I think it is a bit unrealistic to have high expectations of Sheridan. Still lots of time, and the 2011 draft looks pretty weak so far and has not produced many players who are having a big impact yet. We could have chosen better than Sheridan, but the odds are that we would have chosen someone worse if we went for an alternative.

Anyway, that's all irrelevant to whether he should be getting a game or not. If Sylvia, Morabito, DeBoer and Clancee were firing, then it would be clear that Sheridan is out. But for now, we can probably carry him and still get the wins on the board, so it doesn't really bother me too much if he gets a few more games.

 

[Righteo]

Seems like setting yourself up to fail: 150 is allot of games. Anyone picked after the first 6 to 10 picks has done well to crack 100. Afterall if the kids ends up playing 130 games or something he would have played more than probably 90% of the players to ever pull on a boot in the AFL/VFL, but he'd still lose.

Yeah tend to agree, have to pick your battles a little more wisely Reg (not that I disagree with you at all). I made a carton bet with a mate that Josh Simpson will play at least 10 games for the club, easy money.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Yeah tend to agree, have to pick your battles a little more wisely Reg (not that I disagree with you at all). I made a carton bet with a mate that Josh Simpson will play at least 10 games for the club, easy money.

It's not my battle. This is between the sherrif and Eastwood Bushie.

 

[slicedndiced]

 

[Crippa]

you cannot compare Duffield to Mayne. They are in different stratospheres when it comes to work-rate.

Mayne's pressure has been top class last 2 games and the goals will come eventually.

I am in total agreement. I love Mayney almost to the point of heartbreak for the qualities you mention. My one regret when it comes to Mayney's on-field actions is that it was him and not me who got to place their hand on my object of desire.

 

[slicedndiced]

Interesting.

Don't stop now.