Review Round 3, 2019 vs Brisbane

[Young Gun #6]

Lycett not actually in trouble is he?

Didn’t even make contact with the head so can you go for choosing to bump and getting them in the shoulder?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Lycett not actually in trouble is he?

Didn’t even make contact with the head so can you go for choosing to bump and getting them in the shoulder?

It's just people speculating. I thought it was just a body to body bump that was greatly exaggerated.

Cameron's bump on Gray was worse and that was play on.

 

[lionraven]

Sorry for the intrusion as an opposition fan. Good game, tough loss. Here are some thoughts I had whilst at the ground.

You guys played a level above us and dominated for at least 3 quarters without that translating to the score board. That initial half of the first quarter the Lions were able to set up their switch and half back runs to really punish with 4 quick goals. Your wingers then really tightened up on that, playing really strong pressing defense and turned the match into a stoppage game. Usually we would be OK with stoppages given we usually have an advantage with Martin in the ruck. However Ryder and Natanui are the two rucks that always get on top of Martin. We were 50-50 at stoppages around the ground but lost centre square clearances decisively.

The difference was really structural. For all the midfield dominance you had in terms of clearance + territory + inside 50s you guys couldnt capitalise and then let easily goals slip. Defensively your team isnt capable of handling fast ball movement into a tall forward line. Only Dougal matched up equivalently in terms of height to our 3 talls. We would often block Dougal and get a mismatch on Jonas/Jones etc and that let Hipwood, Mcstay and OMac take contested marks and some uncontested marks on the lead inside our 50 - something the Lions suck badly at. This meant we often scored from our forward 50 entries. We also had a mismatch with Rayner as he is 190cm and mobile - he should have had 3-4 goals if he didnt butter finger 3 marks all around the square/pocket.

On the flip side your offense was one tall short. SPP + Ryder + Boak combo was supremely dominant. Ryder would hit towards one side of the centre bounce then Boak/SPP would block and gather usually resulting in a clean centre clearance right down the middle. Unfortunately you didnt have the cattle in the forward line to take advantage. If Richmond had these sort of clearances they would hit Reiwoldt/Martin on the chest. Instead you would bomb it to Westhoff/Lycett/Ryder etc in a two v one tall matchup. This made a mediocre defender like Walker look like goddam McGovern with the number of intercepts we would take. Your smaller forwards were definitely able to lock the ball in at the Lions halfback and get repeat entries which did result in some good goals - particularly to Rozee who got some silver service (and some disrespectful marking by the Lions). I don wonder what would happen if you did have another tall up there - you would definitely get more contested marks + crumbs in your forward 50 but I dont think you'd be as successful as shitting down the Lions half back run game without Sam Grey/Robbie/Rozee clogging up space.

Motlop/Wines/Sam Grey were unnoticed. Rocky was great until he got injured. I think having him in the last 10 minutes would have helped curb some of the clearance dominance the Lions got to run over the Power. However, Rocky was his usual clanger self with shit 30 metre floating clearances from the centre that didnt harm us. You looked a lot more dangerous when Boak/SPP had the clearance.

Lastly the umpiring. I was livid in the middle 2 quarters. Martin got pinned for a throw despite it being a clear handball and he had his back to the umpire - this gave Ryder a shot (cant remember if he goaled or not). Then Port got away with 2 clear throws (and 1 possible throw on the other side but I wasnt close enough to see) that resulted in goals. The last 10 minutes seemed to be a bit of a square up. They missed the Robinson tackle where the guy ducked and dragged the ball in 20 out right in front (just like the one Bailey got pinned for and gave Rozees first goal). Then they give Neale a free right afterwards to square up. The Robinson free from the centre should have been reversed as he punched the guy afterwards. However in the end it wasnt the umpiring that got the Power. It was the inability of the Power to utilise their midfield dominance in terms of goals. This was partly poor execution (with those shite misses in the 2nd) and part of it was structural (no tall forwards to make use of the centre bounce dominance).

I think this game will be one both clubs will reflect heavily on in this one. The Lions did not hit the same gears as we did against WCE and North but we still grinded out a win we didnt really deserve. I was expecting us to finish potentially 10th at best. However, getting wins over other top 8 hopefulls such as yourselves could be the difference in terms of sneaking into the 8 this year. It will be an interesting match up in Adelaide later this year. It will be interesting to see if you back yourselves to use a small forward line to reduce the impact of Rich/Witherden transitioning the ball out of half back but this approach also weakens your midfield dominance by letting our tall defenders to intercept any attacking clearances you guys win.

 

[NEGAN]

That game indicates the difference
between Robbie Gray and Tredrea for the GOAT.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Review:

1. The loss started at selection when we lost a KPD and outside mid, dropped a KPF and replaced them with a KPD, inside mid and small forward. Completely screwed the structure and once again we were kicking long to a field full of short people. That's on the coaches and ultimately, Ken.
2. Senior Players: Pathetic. Robbie, I love your best but that was horrid and stop playing for free kicks. Westhoff, pathetic. Back to playing one good one in every 3. Motlop. Not doing enough. Ebert. Disgraceful. 14 touches at 42%.
3. Kids. I love the kids. Give me more of them.
4. Brisbane: Some exciting talent along with some filthy snipers (Zorko, Robinson, Bailey, Cameron, Hodge). Robinson, you're a disgrace to the game. Flopper. Diver. Sniper. Zero talent. Put that on your banner, Brisbane. For all the furore over Butters' "bump", take a look at the run-up Bailey takes to deliver an elbow to the back of Butters' head when he's on the ground. If that hits cleanly, it has the potential to kill a person.
5. Co-Captains: was supposed to help us win. Didn't.
6. Play the kids. Please. Just play the kids.

 

[Young Gun #6]

It's just people speculating. I thought it was just a body to body bump that was greatly exaggerated.

Cameron's bump on Gray was worse and that was play on.

It looked shocking on the replay so you’d have to think he’d be stiff to miss.

What happened with Butters?? On another SuperCoach forum they quoted something saying he’ll likely get a weeks suspension?

 

[Adz2332]

Was pissy last night... worse today.
Wines back where does drew sit now?
He's not a winger and isn't getting into the guts now.
Depends how rocky go

 

[JUSTWORK]

Was pissy last night... worse today.
Wines back where does drew sit now?
He's not a winger and isn't getting into the guts now.
Depends how rocky go

Really unlucky, but Drew should probably go for a genuine outside player. If Rocky misses through concussion then Drew goes back to inside.

 

[It Just Is]

I have some sympathy for Westhoff. 12 years into his career and we still haven’t learned that he is completely wasted playing as a key forward.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

It looked shocking on the replay so you’d have to think he’d be stiff to miss.

What happened with Butters?? On another SuperCoach forum they quoted something saying he’ll likely get a weeks suspension?

Butters threw himself into a bump but it looked like being hit by a big blowfly so he would be unlucky miss any games.

 

[x_les_x]

Drew was playing back pocket at one stage

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Sorry for the intrusion as an opposition fan. Good game, tough loss. Here are some thoughts I had whilst at the ground.

You guys played a level above us and dominated for at least 3 quarters without that translating to the score board. That initial half of the first quarter the Lions were able to set up their switch and half back runs to really punish with 4 quick goals. Your wingers then really tightened up on that, playing really strong pressing defense and turned the match into a stoppage game. Usually we would be OK with stoppages given we usually have an advantage with Martin in the ruck. However Ryder and Natanui are the two rucks that always get on top of Martin. We were 50-50 at stoppages around the ground but lost centre square clearances decisively.

The difference was really structural. For all the midfield dominance you had in terms of clearance + territory + inside 50s you guys couldnt capitalise and then let easily goals slip. Defensively your team isnt capable of handling fast ball movement into a tall forward line. Only Dougal matched up equivalently in terms of height to our 3 talls. We would often block Dougal and get a mismatch on Jonas/Jones etc and that let Hipwood, Mcstay and OMac take contested marks and some uncontested marks on the lead inside our 50 - something the Lions suck badly at. This meant we often scored from our forward 50 entries. We also had a mismatch with Rayner as he is 190cm and mobile - he should have had 3-4 goals if he didnt butter finger 3 marks all around the square/pocket.

On the flip side your offense was one tall short. SPP + Ryder + Boak combo was supremely dominant. Ryder would hit towards one side of the centre bounce then Boak/SPP would block and gather usually resulting in a clean centre clearance right down the middle. Unfortunately you didnt have the cattle in the forward line to take advantage. If Richmond had these sort of clearances they would hit Reiwoldt/Martin on the chest. Instead you would bomb it to Westhoff/Lycett/Ryder etc in a two v one tall matchup. This made a mediocre defender like Walker look like goddam McGovern with the number of intercepts we would take. Your smaller forwards were definitely able to lock the ball in at the Lions halfback and get repeat entries which did result in some good goals - particularly to Rozee who got some silver service (and some disrespectful marking by the Lions). I don wonder what would happen if you did have another tall up there - you would definitely get more contested marks + crumbs in your forward 50 but I dont think you'd be as successful as shitting down the Lions half back run game without Sam Grey/Robbie/Rozee clogging up space.

Motlop/Wines/Sam Grey were unnoticed. Rocky was great until he got injured. I think having him in the last 10 minutes would have helped curb some of the clearance dominance the Lions got to run over the Power. However, Rocky was his usual clanger self with shit 30 metre floating clearances from the centre that didnt harm us. You looked a lot more dangerous when Boak/SPP had the clearance.

Lastly the umpiring. I was livid in the middle 2 quarters. Martin got pinned for a throw despite it being a clear handball and he had his back to the umpire - this gave Ryder a shot (cant remember if he goaled or not). Then Port got away with 2 clear throws (and 1 possible throw on the other side but I wasnt close enough to see) that resulted in goals. The last 10 minutes seemed to be a bit of a square up. They missed the Robinson tackle where the guy ducked and dragged the ball in 20 out right in front (just like the one Bailey got pinned for and gave Rozees first goal). Then they give Neale a free right afterwards to square up. The Robinson free from the centre should have been reversed as he punched the guy afterwards. However in the end it wasnt the umpiring that got the Power. It was the inability of the Power to utilise their midfield dominance in terms of goals. This was partly poor execution (with those shite misses in the 2nd) and part of it was structural (no tall forwards to make use of the centre bounce dominance).

I think this game will be one both clubs will reflect heavily on in this one. The Lions did not hit the same gears as we did against WCE and North but we still grinded out a win we didnt really deserve. I was expecting us to finish potentially 10th at best. However, getting wins over other top 8 hopefulls such as yourselves could be the difference in terms of sneaking into the 8 this year. It will be an interesting match up in Adelaide later this year. It will be interesting to see if you back yourselves to use a small forward line to reduce the impact of Rich/Witherden transitioning the ball out of half back but this approach also weakens your midfield dominance by letting our tall defenders to intercept any attacking clearances you guys win.

Our players giving up with 5 minutes left and having no want to win the game + being happy with the effort post match, that's what worries me more.

 

[PepeSilvia]

I threw my phone and smashed the screen when Mathieson was paid that high contact free kick 20m out from goal. God I hate that slimy little ****er.

Extremely disappointing result in the end.

To focus on the positives:
- Rozee's a freak. Missed some easy ones too, so really should have finished with 7 goals.
- Butters has the best quick hands that I've seen from a first-year player.
- Houston's a tough bastard. Came back on after a really solid (and fair) hit and was our best defender and one of our best overall. Just gets the job done every week. Very few players have been taken in the 40s in the rookie draft and gone on to play 200 games; Dan Houston will.
- Burton has been an excellent addition to our backline and I'm excited to see him play up forward or through the middle at some stage.
- Ryder kicked three goals.
- SPP stood up when we needed him to.
- Boak is back to his best.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

I threw my phone and smashed the screen when Mathieson was paid that high contact free kick 20m out from goal. God I hate that slimy little ******.

Extremely disappointing result in the end.

To focus on the positives:
- Rozee's a freak. Missed some easy ones too, so really should have finished with 7 goals.
- Butters has the best quick hands that I've seen from a first-year player.
- Houston's a tough bastard. Came back on after a really solid (and fair) hit and was our best defender and one of our best overall. Just gets the job done every week. Very few players have been taken in the 40s in the rookie draft and gone on to play 200 games; Dan Houston will.
- Burton has been an excellent addition to our backline and I'm excited to see him play up forward or through the middle at some stage.
- Ryder kicked three goals.
- SPP stood up when we needed him to.
- Boak is back to his best.

We have a solid group of very talented kids coming through. Now to get a proper senior coach, quickly, before that flair, aggression and will for the contest is coached out of them.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

Was a great game ruined by terrible umpiring. Port deserved the win but at the end of the day you have to kick straight. The blatant rugby pass from Rozee was disgusting, but so was the free paid to Neale.

If the AFL want to make footy successful in Queensland they'd be far better off telling the umpires to put the whistle away, not pay soft free kicks in the dying moments of the game. There's always a lot of AFL newbies at the games in Brisbane, and you're not going to win them over with soft, bullshit umpiring even if it leads to a local team win. Queenslanders want to see big hits and great skills, not umpires deciding who kicks in what is essentially a lotto. When umps pay soft frees it incentivises ducking and playing for frees, because they're so valuable, but all too easy to get. That immediately turns away anyone who is new to the sport - they laugh at Aussie rules footy.

If you wouldn't pay the free kick in the goal square with a minute to go in the grand final with the scores level, then why would you pay it at any other time?

 

[woffy]

That the problem, Marshal isn't playing like a key forward, he been dropping everything he gets his hands near inside 50 and has no presence. I want to see him back in the side and looking like the player we thought we'd drafted, but reality is he is a long way off.

Marshall isnt close to being the key stone of the AFL forward line, talk about wanting to destroy the kids confidence....

Have to agree about Todd; We look at how skill-full & clean below his knees for a tall he is, but he plays like a flanker. He doesn't lead with aggression, doesn't hit the packs hard or be aggressive in the one-on-ones. I have high hopes he can develop these attributes that a KPF needs, and he can still do this in the SANFL.
We're sorely missing Dixon and the only other player we have on the list who can currently play anything like Charlie is Frampton. Give Billy a shot!

 

[Revan11]

Really unlucky, but Drew should probably go for a genuine outside player. If Rocky misses through concussion then Drew goes back to inside.

Drew is giving us more right now than Wines though.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Drew is giving us more right now than Wines though.

Reality is the Captain is no chance of getting dropped. Wines first game back, he'll be better next week, and better again the week after that.

 

[philthy05]

Sorry for the intrusion as an opposition fan. Good game, tough loss. Here are some thoughts I had whilst at the ground.

You guys played a level above us and dominated for at least 3 quarters without that translating to the score board. That initial half of the first quarter the Lions were able to set up their switch and half back runs to really punish with 4 quick goals. Your wingers then really tightened up on that, playing really strong pressing defense and turned the match into a stoppage game. Usually we would be OK with stoppages given we usually have an advantage with Martin in the ruck. However Ryder and Natanui are the two rucks that always get on top of Martin. We were 50-50 at stoppages around the ground but lost centre square clearances decisively.

The difference was really structural. For all the midfield dominance you had in terms of clearance + territory + inside 50s you guys couldnt capitalise and then let easily goals slip. Defensively your team isnt capable of handling fast ball movement into a tall forward line. Only Dougal matched up equivalently in terms of height to our 3 talls. We would often block Dougal and get a mismatch on Jonas/Jones etc and that let Hipwood, Mcstay and OMac take contested marks and some uncontested marks on the lead inside our 50 - something the Lions suck badly at. This meant we often scored from our forward 50 entries. We also had a mismatch with Rayner as he is 190cm and mobile - he should have had 3-4 goals if he didnt butter finger 3 marks all around the square/pocket.

On the flip side your offense was one tall short. SPP + Ryder + Boak combo was supremely dominant. Ryder would hit towards one side of the centre bounce then Boak/SPP would block and gather usually resulting in a clean centre clearance right down the middle. Unfortunately you didnt have the cattle in the forward line to take advantage. If Richmond had these sort of clearances they would hit Reiwoldt/Martin on the chest. Instead you would bomb it to Westhoff/Lycett/Ryder etc in a two v one tall matchup. This made a mediocre defender like Walker look like goddam McGovern with the number of intercepts we would take. Your smaller forwards were definitely able to lock the ball in at the Lions halfback and get repeat entries which did result in some good goals - particularly to Rozee who got some silver service (and some disrespectful marking by the Lions). I don wonder what would happen if you did have another tall up there - you would definitely get more contested marks + crumbs in your forward 50 but I dont think you'd be as successful as shitting down the Lions half back run game without Sam Grey/Robbie/Rozee clogging up space.

Motlop/Wines/Sam Grey were unnoticed. Rocky was great until he got injured. I think having him in the last 10 minutes would have helped curb some of the clearance dominance the Lions got to run over the Power. However, Rocky was his usual clanger self with shit 30 metre floating clearances from the centre that didnt harm us. You looked a lot more dangerous when Boak/SPP had the clearance.

Lastly the umpiring. I was livid in the middle 2 quarters. Martin got pinned for a throw despite it being a clear handball and he had his back to the umpire - this gave Ryder a shot (cant remember if he goaled or not). Then Port got away with 2 clear throws (and 1 possible throw on the other side but I wasnt close enough to see) that resulted in goals. The last 10 minutes seemed to be a bit of a square up. They missed the Robinson tackle where the guy ducked and dragged the ball in 20 out right in front (just like the one Bailey got pinned for and gave Rozees first goal). Then they give Neale a free right afterwards to square up. The Robinson free from the centre should have been reversed as he punched the guy afterwards. However in the end it wasnt the umpiring that got the Power. It was the inability of the Power to utilise their midfield dominance in terms of goals. This was partly poor execution (with those shite misses in the 2nd) and part of it was structural (no tall forwards to make use of the centre bounce dominance).

I think this game will be one both clubs will reflect heavily on in this one. The Lions did not hit the same gears as we did against WCE and North but we still grinded out a win we didnt really deserve. I was expecting us to finish potentially 10th at best. However, getting wins over other top 8 hopefulls such as yourselves could be the difference in terms of sneaking into the 8 this year. It will be an interesting match up in Adelaide later this year. It will be interesting to see if you back yourselves to use a small forward line to reduce the impact of Rich/Witherden transitioning the ball out of half back but this approach also weakens your midfield dominance by letting our tall defenders to intercept any attacking clearances you guys win.

Thanks for the insights

Have to disagree on some of the umpiring stuff though.

If all we copped was the 50/50 stuff you’ve described we would be ecstatic. That’s the stuff every team cops every game.

Instead we’ve regularly copped the absolute amazing howlers like the bizzare push out on Jonas to pay a mark to hipwood that wasn’t a mark and the weird obvious missed holding the ball to deliberate on Ebert as well as the standard stuff that every team cops.

Having said that there isn’t a port supporter alive that doesn’t know if those players had kicked straight, or if Hinkley hadn’t pulled the classic ‘**** our structure to hell let’s drop a tall and pick a small despite it always always backfiring on us’ that we could have won the game and not let the umpires influence it.

 

[Revan11]

Reality is the Captain is no chance of getting dropped. Wines first game back, he'll be better next week, and better again the week after that.

Let hope so. No downhill skiing.

 

[ozph1870]

That game indicates the difference
between Robbie Gray and Tredrea for the GOAT.

Tredders had bad games too.. He also had games where he butchered many many simple shots on goal.

 

[Tibbs]

??? You started by saying not to blame the selection of Sam Gray, then made a point of saying it unbalanced us.

No contradiction at all. Gray shouldn't have been selected. Our forward setup never looked threatening. But did he being selected lose us the match? NO!!!

*We had plenty of opportunity to win, and controlled key parts of the game
*We shot ourselves on the foot esp in the 2nd by missing unmissable shots at goal.
*Atrocious turnovers in defense at critical times, e.g. DBJ kicking lace out to the oppo ... Goal!
*Wines clearly underdone, looking a shell of the player we know he is
*Our senior leaders going missing
*Losing our most damaging midfielder to concussion

But hell yeah, let's blame the selection of Sam Gray for the loss!

Pathetic!

 

[Vagabond0]

And it wasn't like they were all hard shots at goal.

Westhoff, Ebert, Gray. There's 18 points in a 17 point loss.

Makes you wonder, really.

Technically 15 points as we scored three behinds but I get what you mean.

Would love to know what goes through Robbie and Justin head when they get a set shot.

Would hope at this stage of their career they'd love every chance to score another goal rather than worrying about missing. However suspect it's the latter as more often than not they're always looking side ways hoping to off load responsibility.

 

[Vagabond0]

Umpiring, selections, goal kicking aside I still couldn't see us winning last night. Been too long since we've taken a close game by the horns and forced a result our way.

Can't remember the last time I watched us beat a side that I thought had more talent on the park or the better of the day yet we were strong willed enough to force the result.

It's only one loss and a chance this week to help get things on track but if we get another year like 15-18 something has to change.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Gotta love the commentary hey