Ryan Gardner is a good footballer - post your apologies here

[Proffessor]

Skew implies distortion. "Erode trust" and "fracture" are not that far apart, especially when applied to relationships.

If you think there is no distortion used in trying to equate the following,

That sort of thing is fraught with danger because over time biased treatment can erode trust between the coaching staff and playing group.

Hahaha Gardner getting coaches votes is going to fracture the coach/players relationship now hahaha

then I suggest you have a problem.

 

[footscray1973]

If you think there is no distortion used in trying to equate the following,




then I suggest you have a problem.

I have a problem? Thanks for confirming why I usually scroll straight past your rants.

 

[Mofra]

If Gardner walked on water, they'd be posters wanting him dropped for being anti-fish.

 

[Proffessor]

I have a problem? Thanks for confirming why I usually scroll straight past your rants.

Nothing hurts the deluded more than the truth.

 

[maddog37]

Nothing hurts the deluded more than the truth.

Calm down bro. We all friends aren’t we.

 

[True Dog]

Nothing hurts the deluded more than the truth.

Really? The truth is he got 2 coaches votes yet for some reason you can’t accept it…. Remind me again who is delusional.

 

[Foxman98]

If Gardner walked on water, they'd be posters wanting him dropped for being anti-fish.

Mate he could literally cure cancer and they'd say yeah its alright but cancer wasn't really trying that hard to not be cured. He is a very solid 2nd tall key defender and has been our best key defender by a mile this year

 

[Proffessor]

Really? The truth is he got 2 coaches votes yet for some reason you can’t accept it…. Remind me again who is delusional.

And yet nobody is addressing the issue of whether he was actually worthy of being rated the fourth best player on the ground by one of the coaches.

Much easier to simply accuse me of bias rather than address whether the votes were warranted, such behaviour might lead to potential concessions or even agreement.

 

[Mofra]

And yet nobody is addressing the issue of whether he was actually worthy of being rated the fourth best player on the ground by one of the coaches.

Much easier to simply accuse me of bias rather than address whether the votes were warranted, such behaviour might lead to potential concessions or even agreement.

You're accusing the coaches of bias and a complete lack of integrity, so why would you be so sensitive about a lesser assertion?

Bevo is the most successful coach in our club's history, if you're saying you're right and he's wrong it's not a hard side for the rest of us to choose.

 

[Proffessor]

You're accusing the coaches of bias and a complete lack of integrity, so why would you be so sensitive about a lesser assertion?

Bevo is the most successful coach in our club's history, if you're saying you're right and he's wrong it's not a hard side for the rest of us to choose.

I said nothing about their integrity. I am however suggesting intentional bias, which I believe was likely well intended albeit in a misguided way.

I have also mounted and supported a reasoned argument for my opinion.

I don’t believe any objective assessment of Ryan’s performance on Saturday night would support a 4th best on ground ranking, and I doubt that you do either.

The coach probably thinks the benefit of giving him votes in terms of increased individual player confidence greatly outweighs any negative ramifications of such an action. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term, we will see.

I’m just pointing that negative fallout can indeed build up overtime and hurt down the track if they’re not careful.

 

[Dogs54]

I said nothing about their integrity. I am however suggesting intentional bias, which I believe was likely well intended albeit in a misguided way.

I have also mounted and supported a reasoned argument for my opinion.

I don’t believe any objective assessment of Ryan’s performance on Saturday night would support a 4th best on ground ranking, and I doubt that you do either.

The coach probably thinks the benefit of giving him votes in terms of increased individual player confidence greatly outweighs any negative ramifications of such an action. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term, we will see.

I’m just pointing that negative fallout can indeed build up overtime and hurt down the track if they’re not careful.

Have you ever thought that the coach gave Gardner a specific role to undertake and Gardner surpassed those expectations and the coach thought his performance was worthy of votes.

What we don't know is the instructions provided to players by the coaches and we make assessments assuming we know the role the player has to perform.

For example Bailey Williams was criticised by BF posters for his low possession numbers whilst playing on the wing against one of the best wingers in the AFL, however what they failed to take into account was Williams possessions surpassed his opponent and his disposal efficiency was better and in fact Bevo mentioned his significant contribution to the team. I think Gardner has improved significantly and deserves his spot in the team.

 

[Some Idiot]

I said nothing about their integrity. I am however suggesting intentional bias, which I believe was likely well intended albeit in a misguided way.

I have also mounted and supported a reasoned argument for my opinion.

I don’t believe any objective assessment of Ryan’s performance on Saturday night would support a 4th best on ground ranking, and I doubt that you do either.

The coach probably thinks the benefit of giving him votes in terms of increased individual player confidence greatly outweighs any negative ramifications of such an action. Maybe he will be proven right in the long term, we will see.

I’m just pointing that negative fallout can indeed build up overtime and hurt down the track if they’re not careful.

I think you're mistaking unconscious bias for something more in all of your examples.

• Aaron Naughton in 2018 for example probably polled a few extra votes because he exceeded the expectations that the club had for him as a first year player.
• Brian Lake in 2012 - The opposite end of the spectrum - the club has big expectations for the superstar defender and he probably loses votes for little things like not following instructions and lack of discipline.
• Gardner did a very good job in his role but would you say he was better than say Macrae who despite a quiet first quarter kicked a nice goal and had a couple of brilliant field kicks in the 2nd half that kept us in the game? Probably not

However because Macrae does his thing week in and week out - he sometimes doesn't get recognised because it is simply 'the norm' for him.

These examples are nothing more than unconscious bias - an example of how higher/lower expectations of a player can skew votes.

 

[Proffessor]

I think you're mistaking unconscious bias for something more in all of your examples.

• Aaron Naughton in 2018 for example probably polled a few extra votes because he exceeded the expectations that the club had for him as a first year player.
• Brian Lake in 2012 - The opposite end of the spectrum - the club has big expectations for the superstar defender and he probably loses votes for little things like not following instructions and lack of discipline.
• Gardner did a very good job in his role but would you say he was better than say Macrae who despite a quiet first quarter kicked a nice goal and had a couple of brilliant field kicks in the 2nd half that kept us in the game? Probably not

However because Macrae does his thing week in and week out - he sometimes doesn't get recognised because it is simply 'the norm' for him.

These examples are nothing more than unconscious bias - an example of how higher/lower expectations of a player can skew votes.

On the contrary, all those instances are examples where the results were so clearly disconnected from reality that the people passing judgement would certainly have made conscious decisions to bias their judgements.

Your excuses for them are likely the sort of rationalisations that they would have made for themselves when doing so.

When a junior coach decides to give the kid who tried his heart out the gameday award rather than the kid who dominated for the tenth time in a row, he knows exactly what he is doing, and its quite justifiable and even appropriate.

However, I don't think such voting behaviour is appropriate at the professional level where the results can impact on people's livelihoods. Plenty of opportunity for coaches to tell their players how happy they were with them playing their role without skewing votes in competitive awards.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

On the contrary, all those instances are examples where the results were so clearly disconnected from reality that the people passing judgement would certainly have made conscious decisions to bias their judgements.

Your excuses for them are likely the sort of rationalisations that they would have made for themselves when doing so.

When a junior coach decides to give the kid who tried his heart out the gameday award rather than the kid who dominated for the tenth time in a row, he knows exactly what he is doing, and its quite justifiable and even appropriate.

However, I don't think such voting behaviour is appropriate at the professional level where the results can impact on people's livelihoods. Plenty of opportunity for coaches to tell their players how happy they were with them playing their role without skewing votes in competitive awards.

Alright Professor, we get it. You’re a s**t judge when it comes to football. No need to keep pushing this on to the rest of us though.

Might have to start calling you D Mitchell Lite.

 

[huddo#9]

Gardner getting coaches votes is a joke, there is no other way to put it. Was not in the best 10 players on the ground.

Its clearly Bevo trying to justify why he has stuck for him for so long. Ridiculous.

 

[Foxman98]

Gardner getting coaches votes is a joke, there is no other way to put it. Was not in the best 10 players on the ground.

Its clearly Bevo trying to justify why he has stuck for him for so long. Ridiculous.

Most 1%ers, Most spoils and 3rd most intercept marks on the ground and only lost 1 1 on 1. Reckon he might've just had a good game

 

[immortalmike]

Coaches votes again. Brilliant and well deserved. Had a shaky first quarter but grew in confidence as the game wore on.
Happy with both of his last two weeks.
If he can keep up this level I will happily eat humble pie.

 

[huddo#9]

Most 1%ers, Most spoils and 3rd most intercept marks on the ground and only lost 1 1 on 1. Reckon he might've just had a good game

Had a solid game, but as a defender would have had at least 3 goals directly kicked on him (guess to be counted as a 1-on-1 you have to be near your opponent), as well as setting up 2+ directly from his "spoils" (1%er that result in goals). You can throw up all the stats you like, absolute token gesture from his coach.

 

[Golden_6]

Coaches votes again. Brilliant and well deserved. Had a shaky first quarter but grew in confidence as the game wore on.
Happy with both of his last two weeks.
If he can keep up this level I will happily eat humble pie.

It's honestly hard to read too much into our coaches votes. Bevo clearly has his personal favourites (one of which is Gardner) and has had history in the past of favouring Dogs player in the votes.

Gardner is clearly doing what the coaching staff is asking of him but the votes are that of just one stubborn mans opinion.

 

[doggies ftw]

I sort of agree he wouldn’t have been in my top 5 players when the likes of Bont, Marra, Dale, Red, English, Williams and possibly even a few more all had better games IMO (and that’s not even including Melb with May etc) so I kind of agree it’s a bit of a cheeky couple of votes more for his confidence/support rather than how impactful he was.

But I still think he was great and clearly our best key defender, probably 2nd best behind May on the ground. And showed a huge improvement to his game, so let’s just get around him and show some support after a really promising game, his best one for the club. Rather than debate the relevance of a couple of coaches votes

 

[ossie_21]

Had a solid game, but as a defender would have had at least 3 goals directly kicked on him (guess to be counted as a 1-on-1 you have to be near your opponent), as well as setting up 2+ directly from his "spoils" (1%er that result in goals). You can throw up all the stats you like, absolute token gesture from his coach.

Please highlight the times of the goals directly kicked on him and the times over the goals that were set up from his spoils, cheers. Wouldn’t mind rewatching these certain plays to see what else could have avoided them.

 

[immortalmike]

It's honestly hard to read too much into our coaches votes. Bevo clearly has his personal favourites (one of which is Gardner) and has had history in the past of favouring Dogs player in the votes.

Gardner is clearly doing what the coaching staff is asking of him but the votes are that of just one stubborn mans opinion.

Whilst I wouldn't have put him in my votes I think he was the second best key defender on the ground and am more than happy for him to get recognition.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Had a solid game, but as a defender would have had at least 3 goals directly kicked on him (guess to be counted as a 1-on-1 you have to be near your opponent), as well as setting up 2+ directly from his "spoils" (1%er that result in goals). You can throw up all the stats you like, absolute token gesture from his coach.

When in the game were these 5 goals kicked?

Give us a rundown, huddo.

 

[ossie_21]

When in the game were these 5 goals kicked?

Give us a rundown, huddo.

33% of their goals were all Gardner’s fault, we would have won by 8 goals if he wasn’t playing FFS. Delist now

 

[stefoid]

Looks OK when we are defending well up the ground, looks crap when they waltz it out of the centre. Like most defenders.

I think he has an OK fist, and is starting to back himself to mark the ball when it is safe, but when the ball hits the ground....not good. I know he is trying to keep his feet in contests as a priority, but I think his bodywork lets him down. I think smithy is great at coaching general defence, but do we have a specialist 1:1 defnder type of coach? I dunno, someone like Dale Morris?

be good if we did